Recent Northern Pakistan riding
 

Hey all,

I'm currently in Nepal and my plan has been to head into India, then into Pakistan, and then north into China and on towards Kashgar.

I'm a little concerned about Pakistan, and recent issues in Gilgit culminating in curfews etc.

Is anyone in, or has anyone been in northern Pakistan recently?

Would love to get some insight into the security situation, and places to go and places to avoid.

Cheers!
Drew
Adelaide, SA

Hi Drew,

when will you go to Pakistan? I'll be there end of May; entering China on 31st. Maybe, we can ride together a bit.

Cheers,
Kevin

Hey Kevin,

I think I plan to meet my Chinese guide on the 24th or so.

There's been a whole lotta hoopla in Gilgit recently, so am not sure of the situation. Of course this changes all the time.
Am currently in Kathmandu, where you at?

Cheers,
Drew

Drew

I was in Gilgit a few weeks ago. Left Brisbane in January & started the ride from Nepal. Several landslides on the KKH so long delays while these were cleared. No other problems while I was there. Bombings happened soon after I left so no idea if the curfews are still in place. Not sure these would be a problem unless you were planning on being out at night.

I'm now in Bam, Iran and heading to Turkey. You might even catch me up given the slow speed I'm travelling! LOL Enjoy your ride and say Hi to Raja at the Tie Net Cafe, Gilgit - he's a good guy.

Cheers, Ron

Salam
 

Hi Ron, we are in Tabriz now and heading your other direction. Would be nice to meet you. Our route will be Qom, Esfahan, Yazd in the coming days - 5 to 6. Maybe send us a PM with mobilenr so that we can text you if you like...

Cheers,

Roemer and Lisan / Bajatwin.com

Fortunately Gilgit is not on the main KKH and can be bypassed. That appears to be the thing to do for some time and go to Hunza instead which is 100kms away.

I'll keep you updated guys.

Cheers
Omar

Ron,

Great to hear all is well with you. I saw some of your threads and checked out your site, power to you my friend!

Omar - thanks for the update. At this point I intend to enter Pakistan in about 4 weeks and hopefully the situation will be clearer. I've heard so many good things about Pakistan that I really hope I get a good view of the country and avoid all these issues.

I am planning to meet a Chinese guide on the Chinese end of things so I hope this is still going to happen.

Cheers all!
Drew

I'm in Bangkok organizing the transport of my motorbike to Kathmandu. I plan to arrive there on 2nd/3rd of May. So I guess I'll be a bit behind you.
What's your route through China? Exit to Kyrgyzstan? The following is what I have in mind:
KKH
-> Kashgar
-> Hotan
-> Niya
-> Kuqa
-> Korla
-> Turpan
-> Urumqi
-> Korgas
Kazakhstan


Safe trip!
Cheers,
Kevin

Mian,

Thanks for the information and offer of further help.. its really very appreciated!

Kevin,
Tell Kittima I said hi.. haha - that's if your dealing with her at TransAir Cargo?.. and you probably are :) .. My plan is to get to Kashgar and then enter Kyrgyzstan yes. As to further plans I have a few suggested routes somewhere on my pc.. but I' still open with all this. I'd like to exit into Iran and then Turkey, or Azerbaijan and then Georgia if there are problems with the Iranian visa.

Keep me informed of your progress, and enjoy Nepal!

If you need somewhere safe to keep the bike once in Thamel - then check out the Tibet guest house. They were good enough to let me park my bike there, even though I'm not a current guest.

Cheers!
Drew

Hey Drew,

I haven't made any progress but regress lately: when I was in Bangkok to organize the transport - I'm using Excel Transport (Mr. Thira) as their quote was better - I had an accident with my motorbike. Well, if I'm lucky the guys at Barcelona Motors can fix it this week and the motorbike can still get shipped as scheduled.
The next issue is the Pakistani visa, which I thought I could get here in Singapore where I currently reside. It turned out today that they won't issue it because my residence permit for Singapore expires just at the time I want to visit Pakistan. In addition, they ask for a letter of invitation from a Pakistani citizen who explicitly vouches for me. Thus, I need to figure out how I'm gonna get the Pakistani visa from Germany. Sigh...

Cheers,
Kevin

Hey Kevin,

Bad luck bout your bike, hope you get it sorted.

I've met a guy from Melbourne who is looking at ferrying from Mumbai to the UAE and then into Iran. Looks like a good and easy alternative to Pakistan if doable I think.

Cheers!
Drew

KKH Update
 

The KKH is now open to all traffic, however a German group was turned back last week. They were asked to get an noc from the ministry of interior . The plan is to provide escort to all foreigners traveling on KKH between Behsam and Gilgit however this is still in the works and there is no clear policy yet. I'm told that it would be resolved in a week or so...
We are crossing into Pakistan next week and will see what the deal is when we get to Islamabad.

Kevin - is this you??? It's Sanne and Mark - we met in Krabi! So you have started your trip then? Regarding Pak visa - you can fedex your passport to the embassy in Germany - Frank the KTM rider did the same.

Does this mean like a regular car ferry..? because there probably isn't one. There was a thread about that very subject not so long ago.

Shipping the bike as freight should be possible, but out of India, especially by sea, I can almost guarantee that it will be a royal headache.

According to my information police is escorting the vehicles in convoys around Chillas area. We can always contact the NATCO and hotels in Gilgit for the latest information.
One thing is for sure traffic is running in convoys.
BTW the more scenic and shorter route, my favorite, via Babusar should be opening in June when the snows melt.

Big Empty: thanks for the information. So your crossing over in a week?
I should be crossing over in 2-3 weeks I think and heading for the border for a crossing on the 24th or so.

Let us know what you find out in Islamabad!

Pecha: I'm not sure how much research Ryan's done. He was initially thinking about flying the bike from Delhi to Istanbul, but he's still looking into various options.

Cheers!
Drew

Yeah we will probably cross the border early next week. We have spent more time than anticipated here in the Indian Himalayas which by the way you really shouldn't skip - amazing! Much better than Nepal in my opinion. So you're not spending much time in India and Pakistan then? Is it you who is riding a vespa?

Ahh ok.. thanks for the tips.

Yes, I'm riding the Vespa (Vescapade | Facebook) and have been travelling with Ryan from Melbourne since Pokhara (Super trip of awesome). Were currently in Varanasi - and my plan was to meet a Chinese guide in northern pakistan in about 3 weeks time, but at the rate I'm going I'm not going to get there - so a considering the south-western dash into Iran. Are you guys going that way? What kind of timeframes have you in mind for Pakistan?

Cheers!
Drew
Vescapade | Facebook

If you follow along the KKH, you do not need a NOC but if you head over through the Babusar pass, I have heard of people been stopped and asked for a NOC. This again is not entirely true, but they use it if there has been problems along the road. If you can not go on one road try the other before giving up. Its well worth going up the KKH.

My friend is the Director of Tourism in Gilgit-baltistan area, when they had the problems they informed all the tourist and helped them to get out of the area quickly and safely. Pakistan, do not want any problems with tourist but the love tourist, so they are very caring and thoughtful. SO, IF something does happen again, be confidant in the Tourism Department to help all the tourist out.

Pakistan is well worth visiting! I thought I would be there for less than a month and ended up staying for 6! It is the most beautiful country ive ever been too!

Yes, it's me and I finally started my journey - with more than a week delay due to the accident in Bangkok and the visa issues.
I arrived in KTM on Saturday and got my motorbike the next day. I'll stay in the Kathmandu valley till Friday, the day I'm supposed to get my Indian visa (crossing fingers). Then I'll have to rush :( through India and Pakistan to be at the Pakistani-Chinese boarder on 31.05.
You are in Pakistan now, aren't you. Are you going to Iran or China after that?
You mentioned that you liked the Indian Himalayas very much. Any specific road/city you would recommend?

Drew,
where are you at the moment?

Cheers,
Kevin

Hey Kevin!

Good to hear from you.

I've been in a similar boat to you I think. I was planning to meet my guide on the 24th of may at the Chinese border, but I've been delayed by varying illnesses :frown:, and well.. the roads aren't too quick anywhere! Am about 500k's east of Delhi at the moment, and have been in this town for almost a week due to illness, and not the night or two I had planned.

With my delays I'm thinking of going from Pakistan straight down to Iran.. there's no way I'll be getting that far within 2 weeks (and I'd still need a Kyrgyzstan visa)

Am not sure how fast your thinking of travelling but it's quite a long way from Kathmandu. Took me a couple of days to get to the Nepal/Indian border from Pokhara (although I don't travel ultra fast).

Keep me in the know!... especially if you re-route through to Iran instead of China like me !

All the best,
Drew

I hope you're feeling better now!

Well, I don't have an Iranian visa and I've already transferred a considerable amount of money to the Chinese agency. So I don't have much of a choice than being at the Pakistan-Chinese boarder in time.
If my plan works out, I'll arrive at Lahore on 26.05. I want to stay at the Regal Internet Inn for one night. The next day, head to Islamabad and stay at the overland campsite. So I'll have 4 days for the KKH.
Maybe, I'll catch up with you (and Ryan?) somewhere on the way.

One night for Lahore shouldnt be enough. I would recommend you to spend a few more days and enjoy this wonderful city and discover its varied charms like

Free Slideshows - TripWow on Facebook | Facebook

Let me know if you want any kind of help.

Have a nice trip.
Cheers
Omar

In Kathmandu now.
 

Hi Drew,

Have been following this thread very closely. I am in KTM now and should pick up my bike on Monday to head for India and Pakistan, then KKH, China and Kyrgyzstan etc. Hope you get everything sorted out. May meet you somewhere between Kathmandu and London.Thanks for all the useful info too.

Omie: Will PM you when I get to Lahore in early June.
Cheers,
Brian

What accident did you have in Bangkok?
We just arrived in Lahore today, after spending some time in Amritsar recovering from illness :(
We will be going to Iran afterwards. Yes, if you have time you must go to Himachal Pradesh, especially Manali, one of our favourite places in India and cool... From here you can try to take the road to Keylong via the Rotang Pass if it is open. From Shimla up to Tatopani is also a really nice road with next to no traffic (a rarity in India).
Maybe we'll see you on the KKH somewhere :)

Sanne

Thanks for the tip! I'll go that direction tomorrow.
I'm at Rishikesh together with Nic (www.froma2b.com.au), another Aussie who's riding his BMW F800GS to London.
See you on the KKH ;)

KKH update from end of May 2012
 

I saw a few a other threads that are talking about taking the KKH in the near future, so it's high time for me to share my experience (sorry for the delay, but I'm still traveling):

I took the KKH end of May this year (2012) to cross into China. I drove all the way from Lahore to the landslide lake within two days. It took me two more to do rest of the KKH from there to Khunjerab pass.

I was escorted by the police from Besham to Chilas which slowed me down a lot (driving slowly, registration at checkpoints, waiting for handover every ~10 km). To my surprise they were even driving in the dark with me for quite some time.
On the first day we stopped at “Hotel/Restaurant Pakistan”, a place where many buses stop and which is about 10-15km before the PTDC @Dasu where I actually wanted to stay. But it was very late already (after 10 pm) and so they insisted that I stay at this hotel. At first I was skeptic and suspected them to have some kind of “deal” with the owner of the shabby hotel. In the end, I got invited for dinner by another guest and didn’t have to pay for the room either. A policeman with his AK-47 shared the room with me for my safety.
It took almost the entire morning of the next day till we reached Chilas. Eventually, I arrived at the landslide lake around 6:00 pm (had a puncture just after Chilas). There were no other passengers anymore to share a boat with and therefore, the boat ride would have cost 3000 PKR which I didn’t have. In addition, the policemen asked me for a NOC (no objection certificate). As I had not heard/read that I need it to cross the lake, I didn’t have it. They told me it is possible to get in in Hunza, but they gave me a “special permission” after showing them my Chinese letter of invitation with the date of the next day on it and explaining that my Chinese guide will be waiting at the border (which was true).
So I stayed with them at an abandoned Chinese camp for the night and took one of the first boats the next morning around 9 am (500 PKR + 200 PKR for porters to help me loading my bike onto the boat). It is impossible for cars to get loaded on boats – it was possible in the past, but not anymore according to the policemen – so there’s no way for cars to cross the lake and drive the KKH from Pakistan to China or vice versa. Loading and unloading was done within a couple of minutes, crossing the lake took about 1.5 h, getting the bike (~165 kg) and luggage back on the KKH after unloading took about 1 h plus a lot of sweat of 3 porters (8 USD) and me. Due to another landslide that came down there in mid of May, the road to the KKH was blocked by boulders and a rapid stream of glacier water. I didn’t dare to give it a try to ride through. Later I saw a huge digger driving through it and the water reached almost till the half of its big wheels, approximately the height of my bike’s seat. This small landslide might be cleared by the time of writing. The huge landslide lake will be there for at least two more years according to locals.
I arrived at Sust/Sost around 13:00 and had to stay there one more night because the Pakistani customs and immigration offices are only open 9:00 – 12:00. There are no ATMs and gas stations after the landslide lake, but you can get petrol in some backyard in Sost. I paid 425 PKR for 3 liters. It’s ca. 290 km after the landslide lake to the next petrol station at Tashkurgan, China, so better top up in Hunza.
The last unpleasant surprise was the 8 USD admission for the KK National Park which you have to pay on the way to the Khunjerab Pass just after leaving Sost.

The landscape after the lake up to Khunjerab pass isn’t much different from what you see before the lake, but it was mind-blowing for me on the Chinese side and that was great reward for all these difficulties.

Hi

I was on the KKH also in May 2012 and I was able to ship my car over the lake. In fact we were four car's (2 Toyota Landcruiser, 1 IVECO Daily, 1 Mercedes Van) plus three big trucks (IVECO, Unimog, Mercedes).

The army ferry is currently out of order so we had to ship the vehicles with the ordinary fishing boats. We put two of these boats together and shipped two small car at a time over the 30km lake. The trucks went one by one.

The loading is a bit dodgy so is the unloading, but in general it was quite ok. Shortly after our crossing they blowed part of the damn to release some of the water, so I guess you just arrived after that event and they have not set up yet a proper up- and unloading for the massive amount of goods they transport each day.

I spent about a week around Karimabad and talked with loads of people and officials about the lake etc.! For all other travelers of the KKH I advice to contact local sources for recent news about lake crossings. In my opinion, knowing the Pakistanis quite well, there will be 100% a way to cross with car by now, since many locals also cross with there vehicles.

For more details about the crossing or local contacts please contact me. By the way we paid 14'000 Rs for two boats which carried up to two car's. The horror stories of 1000USD plus are not true or there was very bad "handling" involved.

Cheers and safe travels
Roman

Ow if you like to see some pictures of the crossing. Check out the following link on flickr.

Pakistan - KKH Lower Hunza - a set on Flickr

Greeetz Roman

Well, I've just got back from riding the KKH, full loop,over the Shandur pass to Chitral and back down through Dir to Peshawar on a Bullet 2 up. They were still taking cars across Sost lake when we got there end of May, they did ask for NOC entering Kohistan, but let us through without one, escorted through Besham to chilas, and given police guard for our stay in Chitral and down to the Lowrie tunnel, got stopped at a big army checkpoint between Dir and Peshawar and asked for NOC, but again we were eventually allowed through without one, however, I don't think we would have been allowed the other way ( Peshawar-Chitral ) as that is supposed to be the dodgy bit, I think they just decided that as we had come that far they might as well let us continue. What a beautiful trip !