South East Asia And Then Some
 

Evening folks,

Myself and my girlfriend and planning a year out next year from work...never did the uni gap year so we figured now's a good time with the economy in the state that it's in and having saved a couple of pennies.

Last couple of years I've developed a dislike/fear of flying and that's opened up overland travel for me.

We're planning to travel from Moscow on the Trans Mongolian/Manchurian to Beijing, spending some time there learning Mandarin and exploring. Then we're heading to Shanghai for a bit more of the same. After that we will keep traveling overland to HK (where my girlfriend is originally from and has a house there) where we'll spend a month or so seeing relatives and relaxing before heading to Vietnam.

When we get to Hanoi we plan on buying a motorbike and exploring the north before taking the bike down to HCMC then into Laos, Cambodia, Thailand and Malaysia where we will stay for a while.

From there we were going to try and get overland to India but I'm not sure if that's even possible (or probably very £££).

We'll spend some time in India, traveling all over before flying home - I'd like to carry on and see Turkey but I doubt that our money would last that long!

Our other option is doing this trip in reverse. I'd like to know if anyone has an opinion on either direction, the route or some good old advice.

We both like to get off the beaten path and have a big interest in food. Neither of us is against stopping off to work along the way, and if we can organise something, we'd like to help out with some sort of charity/conservation group.


A couple of questions...

1. I've read a few posts on here and other sites about crossing VN, Laos, Cambodia, Thailand and Malaysia with a bike and there seems to be conflicting information on border crossing.
Can you take a bike, bought in VN, across these countries?

2. What documentation will I require?

3. In China, I've read that you simply can't buy/rent a bike and drive through the country. Is this true? and do you need a government guide if you are going out of the cities?

4. Does my girlfriend, who has a HK card and passport, get any benefits i.e. allow us not to require a guide?

5. Is it possible to travel from Thailand to India? I expect that it's Burma that's the problem. Does anyone know if it's possible to travel through there? Failing that I'd be keen to get on a ferry/cargo ship of some sort.

6. I'm sure there's been plenty people who have done this sort of trip, could anyone give me a rough indication on how much to budget?

7. Depending on which way round we're going to travel, can anyone tell me what might be a good time, weather-wise, to start in each country. We're not bothered about being in the rainy season but I'm concerned about biking through VN etc as that's going to affect our travel.

Also, if anyone is doing all or part of these places next year it would be good to share tips/research and maybe hook up along the way.

Thanks for reading, happy biking!

Re no 5 I have been interested in the Thai-India route for some time so I'll follow your attempts with interest.
Bloody Burma ! :cursing:
India worries that that the Andaman islands (India) are too close to Thailand and Malaysia so are quite strict with entering and leaving India this way.But in recent times there has been a loosening of rules with direct flights from se asia so I think it may be worth pursuing.

Burma, Bloody Burma
 

Hi TwoBob

I would like to keep to overland travel as much as possible but this might be one part of the trip we're probably going to have to be sealed into a can of other people's farts and flung into the sky!

Other than that I read a book called Escaping the Winter by Anne Mustoe (which isn't that great and seemingly aimed at people with plenty money) which suggested some cargo ship companies that have a few places for passengers. It would be a fantastic way to enter India but I'll have to see about the restrictions.

I'd like to see Burma, there's quite a lot of mystery about the country but, as you say, Bloody Burma!

I believe you can do Burma (or at least parts of it) as a backpacker. But going overland between India & Thailand is another thing. Especially with your own vehicle — sure you´re free to try, but I REALLY would not count on succeeding! If you´re first time in the region, might be easier to simply forget it, and think of other options; probably saves you a lot of headache.

It seems it might be possible to ride all the way from Laos (not Thailand — look at the map, and you´ll see why!) to India... but it means a long trip thru China, and likely to cost so much with the guides & paperwork, that it´s out of reach for most travelers. I believe that on this forum, there has been a figure of +6000 euros (per head!) for going that route in the other direction in 2007. And Tibet is a sensitive region, so might not be possible every time (plus you´d be crossing the Himalayas as well as the Tibetan plateau, so don´t take the weather challenges lightly!)

Bay of Bengal: NO ferries between India & SE Asia since decades. Possibly some big cargo ship, with a very limited # of cabins, going between Chennai & Singapore(?), but appeared random and all but cheap. It is possible to freight relatively cheaply, by sea or by air, between several cities/ports in the region, and because of the reasons mentioned above, that´s how vehicles usually travel between India & SE Asia.

Browse the forum, and you will find plenty of discussions about exactly these same topics.

Thanks for the info. There's quite a lot of info about overland travel from Malaysia to India, some of it conflicting, some good news and some bad news but I think, for the most part, it's going to be quite a costly and lengthy task to get through Burma.

We're currently looking for a route by sea from Malaysia to northern India. If anyone has info on this it would be most welcome.

thanks again.

I flew into Rangoon from Bangkok, about the only way to get in, for three weeks backpacking last year which I normally wouldn't do but it is a great place to visit and would recommend it.

Thanks for the recommendation Mark. Is travel within Burma not quite restricted by the government?

Yes, you can only stay in licenced guest houses and go where they want you to, but there is enough of that to make it worth while and there was not the oppresive atmosphere that some places with questionable governments have.

This is my plan , please don't laugh.
Have Indian visa pre-arranged, turn up at yuppie yacht ports in Thailand and offer deck hand duties for passage for me & the bike to the Andamans. Then ferry to India. this maybe in reverse ?
I said don't laugh.

You can get a lot of information about living and motorcycling in China at mychinamoto.com. Just a little food for thought....Why choose Beijing and Shanghai? They are about the worst that China has to offer when it comes to quality of life and motorcycling. Why not pick Kunming in Yunnan and Chengdu in Sichuan? Those are two of the best locations for motorcycling and outdoor lifestyle...you can learn Mandarin anywhere.

I live next to Hong Kong, stop in for a beer when you get down this way.

Cheers!
ChinaV

Hi chinav Thank you for the info , I hope more people from China will post here it will help clear the way, to allow the adventurers amongst us to forge friendships in your country.

Thanks Mark - I think we're going to probably leave the bike in Thailand, travel round Burma and come back to Thailand. I would like to see Burma, as I said, and I don't want a little red tape to stop that.

I might just try that Twobob, I can see myself in a pair of deck shoes and white trousers swabbing the poop deck :)

ChinaV - We weren't really planning on biking round China as I was under the impression it was near impossible for a foreigner to buy a bike. If you rent a car in Beijing, apparently you cannot take it out of the city.

I certainly don't want to stay in Beijing/Shanghai (Beihai??) for long (I live in a big city, I don't really want to holiday in one)
If it's possible to get a bike in China I'd be happy to bike around. Our other option was to take the train to various places.

Do you think it's possible for us to get hold of a bike and (as legally as possible) tour the country?

What else would you recommend in China? We were looking at the Yangtse River (local chinese boat not a cruise) Xian, Terracotta warriors, the Great Wall.

We're certainly going to be in HK for a while - my partner is from HK and we're going to stay with relatives for a few weeks at least. So we'll go for a pint.

I second Twobob's comment, China needs to open up a little more now that's it's starting to take centre stage in the world.

safe travels all!

I do call it home these days, but China is not my country, I'm merely a guest. I really wish things would open up for independent travelers here, but it doesn't look like they will anytime soon. That said, I always have a cold one in the fridge for any motorcyclists that make it over.

A few things to consider. Most people don't announce how they maneuvered through the grey areas in China to ride a bike. Officially, it's not supposed to happen, but people do come here and ride bikes around. Some spend huge dollars on legal tours and others skirt the bounds and go their own way. I leave it up to each person to decide what is best for them.

There are official tour agencies that rent bikes and organize tours. If you're not going into Tibet or sensitive parts of Xinjiang, you're more or less free to roam around without a government escort.

Other stuff:
Beijing has some cool sights like the forbidden city and nice day trips to other points of interest.
Shanghai, why bother, you're going to be in Hong Kong so you will have plenty of chances to see Gucci and Prada stores. Shanghai offers little in the way of culture or history, it's just another big asian city full of appartments, restaurants and shopping malls.
The Yangtse is pretty gross, and I would stay away from it.
I took my family to the Terracotta warriors and we all enjoyed it, but there's not much else to do in Xian. More than 3 days would be pushing it.
The Great Wall is cool to see in remote areas where it hasn't been re-constructed and turned into a tourist trap.

Some things that I've enjoyed:
Yunnan = Luguhu - Dali - Lijiang etc. Really nice area of China, one of my favorites.
Guanxi = Yangshuo (near Guilin) is very beautiful and a great place to chill out.
Zhangjiajie in Hunan was pretty cool.

Good luck
ChinaV

China bike license
 

Hi ChinaV

Hope you're well. I understand that you must be getting tired typing about all the Chinese bureaucracy to people coming to China but I've been reading conflicting information about getting a bike license in China.

We'll be arriving in Beijing, off the Trans Mongolian and wanted to get a bike to explore China before selling it at the HK border (as i've heard the authorities don't like you taking a bike into HK)

I've got a British driving license and International Driving Permit but wanted to confirm a couple of things about getting a license in China...

1. They require a residents permit. If we're staying with friends and on a tourist visa can we still get one?

This guy managed it - Riding the horse to death: Chinese Driver License


2. I can buy a second hand bike and take the plate number to the police to check that it's legal - correct? I've heard that they make 5 bikes all with the same numbers then apply for 'lost papers' until they have enough for each bike. Are there any things we should look out for when buying a bike?

The same guy above had this problem and had to pay a hefty fine to get his bike back.


3. Would you recommend any good bike insurance?


4. Are there any bikes you would recommend for 2 up riding all over China? Has to be comfortable for her to save my ears from the whining!doh

5. Does it matter where I get the license issued - do other provinces recognise a Beijing issued license?


6. Have you been on the luge at the Gt Wall?
YouTube - ‪Mutianyu Great Wall Luge‬‏



Many thanks

Good luck with your trip plans!

Cheers!
ChinaV

What! no youtube in china??
 

I can't believe it. So where do all the Chinese videos come from? you're really missing out on all those billions of videos of cute cats. :\

Anyway, thank you very much for all the advice. I think I'll be the one buying you a beer when we get to China.

I think we're going to see how things go once we arrive in china with regard to getting a bike, it might be easier to think about it once we're there. We've got a year anyway so we're not in a hurry.

I had a look at the JH600 and it looks like a good bike. By the by, do most owners stick BMW badges to them to make them look like GS650's? :) odd.

Have a great weekend. It's finally summer here in London but I still can't wait to get on with our trip. I'm sure it'll come round soon enough.

1. I've read a few posts on here and other sites about crossing VN, Laos, Cambodia, Thailand and Malaysia with a bike and there seems to be conflicting information on border crossing.
Can you take a bike, bought in VN, across these countries?

As of May 1st, Thai, Cambodia, Laos, and Vietnam has agreements to allow land inter-travel. It means you can freely bring any vehicle from the 4 countries in the 4 countries.

2. What documentation will I require?

Ownerships and registrations.


3. In China, I've read that you simply can't buy/rent a bike and drive through the country. Is this true? and do you need a government guide if you are going out of the cities?

Yes. it is true. However, you can bring a bike from VN into China. No it is not true.

4. Does my girlfriend, who has a HK card and passport, get any benefits i.e. allow us not to require a guide?

No.

5. Is it possible to travel from Thailand to India? I expect that it's Burma that's the problem. Does anyone know if it's possible to travel through there? Failing that I'd be keen to get on a ferry/cargo ship of some sort.

Yes you can by pass Burma (land travel) into India but it is longer.

6. I'm sure there's been plenty people who have done this sort of trip, could anyone give me a rough indication on how much to budget?

Depends on you and your girlfriend's need of comfort level. In Thai and India, I spent U.S $45 per day but it gets cheaper if you share room and gas.

7. Depending on which way round we're going to travel, can anyone tell me what might be a good time, weather-wise, to start in each country. We're not bothered about being in the rainy season but I'm concerned about biking through VN etc as that's going to affect our travel.

In that region, mid Nov is a good start but you want to complete your trip prior to late March since it will enters the rainy season.

Also, if anyone is doing all or part of these places next year it would be good to share tips/research and maybe hook up along the way.

We (3 males (2 in early 70s and one in 50s) and 1 female (60 yo) are flying into Hanoi, pre-buy 4 125cc motorcycles drive to Quang-Binh for the largest cave in the world), Ho Chi Minh trail into Laos visiting Luaung Prabang, dropping down to Ankor Wats,floating city, cut north to Chiang Mai and then down to Bankok. We simply donate the bikes to charities and fly home from Bangkok.

Have a great trip. I wish we have as much time as you do.

Can you please give us a source for this? It will be a major boost for bike travel in the region.

If this is true as well it would open up overland bike travel from SE Asia to Europe during the summer months.

trying your blood's worth bottling
"As of May 1st, Thai, Cambodia, Laos, and Vietnam has agreements to allow land inter-travel. It means you can freely bring any vehicle from the 4 countries in the 4 countries. "

more here Explore Indochina & Vietnam Travel.
Quote
"Reportedly, the next three Indochinese countries will sign an agreement to allow road vehicles in circulation means more easily within the three countries of Indochina.Travel agents is expected after the deal, two-way tourists travel by road will be the growth sharply today."

There's a new site to promote the Mekong countries Explore Mekong
have registered but can't post on its forum , will keep trying to get an answer
This could be good news :D

awesome! that's good news. Going to speak to the embassies and see what they are saying about it.

That might change our route a bit now - in a good way. We might have the option of exploring China on the bike now. Also will look into Burma more as I'm really keen to go through/round Burma and see Darjeeling and Assam.

Your trip sounds good, I think we'll include the cave. What are your trip dates, it'd be great to meet up along the way.

Just had a look at the Mekong site, it looks pretty good albeit lacking in good content but I'm sure it'll grow. Adding it to my 'research' folder.

Suggest you research stories of people who have already gone through Burma. Just one morsel of info: to get to the Burmese border in India you need an Inner Line Permit. Apparently, it's about as hard to get for a foreigner as permission to cross Burma itself.