And the two finalists are...
 

Seems after reading the entire Internet twice that the two top contenders for solo trans-continental travel are the XTZ 660 Ten and the KTM 690 enduro with fairing and aux tanks fitted.
I wondered if anyone had an informed opinion on the above?
(Not interested in anything else, I've made my mind up and would really like to keep this one thread on topic)
In the blue corner...
:0))
Simple. Fixable. Reliable. Cheap(ish). Economical. Robust. Factory prepared. Tried and tested. Accessories avilable
:0((
High CofG. Underpowered. Basic spec components

In the orange corner
:0))
New. Powerful. Sexy. Desirable. Off road ace. Quality components. Now reliable(?)
:0((
Expensive. Small tank. Expensive screen-tank mods to construct the missing adventure model. Not as reliable as yam. Fussier regarding servicing than yam. Not as good MPG as yam

Personal use.
I plan to travel into Morocco. Like to do some dune riding maybe (KTM). Like to do the Alaska to Argentina Trans trip (YAM) and overland to India and throughout India (?)
I don't know myself how much "off roadness" I would require and therefore which bike or the spares availability. I don't want to drag alternators and rectifiers around if possible

What say you and is the new true 690cc Ktm the way to go?

Please keep on topic....
Thanks in advance

Plus
 

To ad... I have a road bike (R1200r classic) which I love so it would not be my only bike. I did wonder if I could do some green landing as well if I went for the KTM?

Hmmm... being a LC4-640-Hybrid smart ass my self, I would say stick with the YAM for what you would like to do... (I stick with my 640 because I got one and would not swap for a 690 at all for my travelling habits)

Had a riding buddy with a 690R and guess who had problems with the electric... yeah it was the 690R not my 640-Hybrid.... further more... the frequent stop or better hunt for a fuel station... not to top up my 640 with it's 30Lt. ADV-tank, but the 690R twice the day. And the missing carriage capability is another point that would put me off... otherwise it's a nice beast to play with.
(part of the wrong colours.... well the 690 only comes in bright orange and not in black)

You are saying that you are not so much in to the offroad play... well I guess the YAM would be more your piece of cake than... would be way easier and cheaper to find the additional parts you would need to build an overlanding bike on the YAM-base, and in case of a bush repair, parts would be more likely wildly around to source locally if needed.

And by the way... you don't want to race around the globe, do you, so this "underpowered" issue with the YAM is not true.. may only if compared with the 690 for competitions, otherwise you would have plenty power anyway.

Tenere owner here, so read into that what you will in terms of bias, but for me the only reason you'd consider the 690 as a "solo, trans-continental travel bike" is if you already had one, or you really wanted one for other reasons (which is, of course, fine :D).

The Tenere will do everything you want out of the box. It won't excel at any one thing, but it will do it all without fuss.

50% more horsepower, 20% less weight, and better suspension make the stock 690 a much better bike for off-road racing than a stock Tenere (although most of the people that race them seem to end up upgrading the suspension anyway). Outside racing, 46bhp is plenty, and you'll have lost the weight benefits by the time you've fitted big tanks, fairing, and luggage capacity.

I've been rallying my Tenere this year. I've spent quite a lot of money on the suspension, and I'd probably still be faster on a stock 690. But a 690 wouldn't be as good for *anything* else I do, and I don't want to have money tied up in a dedicated race bike at the moment.

You can put a WP48 front end and a Nitron race shock into a Tenere for about the same money you'd spend putting a fairing, tanks, and racks on a 690. But again, outside racing use, the stock stuff (possibly with uprated springs) is fine.

Thanks guys. Not the partisan bullsh1t you get on BMW sites. Good honest stuff x

I've had my KTM 690 Enduro from new (2009) and I use it mainly for trail riding. It would take quite a lot (of money) to get the KTM up to scratch for long distance travel and there is nothing wrong with the Tenere's off road ability although it is a bit heavy.

The KTM is reliable, good service intervals but quality components is argueable although probably better names than on the Yamaha. Yamaha would need an LC4 rear hubb.

Personally I'd go for the Tenere for all the very valid reasons you've mentioned in the first post.

Cheers. I was being swayed towards the new kid on the block but I'm guessing most roads will still be "roads" not cross country so the Yam is slowly winning through. Good to go out of the crate too

Get the KTM.

I have 72,000 km on my 2008 690. People keep sending me emails that it is not reliable. I'm not sure what they are talking about.

I have 27 liters of fuel and a 500km range. It has the power to get you out of the soft stuff, the economy to get you between gas stations, the suspension to get you over the bumps, ridiculously strong rims (DID dirtstars) and its light. I can pick it up by myself when I dump it.

At the end of the day, its a blast to ride. Yes it cost more money but I promise if you ride both, you will buy the KTM.

These days its not THAT much more money. The Yamaha started out sub 5000 pounds a few years back, but its now 7000 - not much less than the KTM.

I think if you have hopes to develop your off road riding the KTM will offer you a lot more potential.

The Yamaha is pretty bulletproof out of the box. The KTM has a number of known issues. I think if you take care of the known issues, them the KTM is not far behind in reliability. But you do need to be aware of and address those known issues.

The difference in weight is HUGE ... almost 50 kgs.

You can spend a fortune trying to improve the XTZ offroad, with 18 inch rear wheel, WP forks, etc, as J-Mo once did, but even then its a very very heavy off road bike with comparable suspension to the KTM. That 50 kgs of extra weight is a penalty you are just not going to be able to do anything about. In contrast, the issues with the KTM are all remediable.

On the weight basis alone, I personally would go for the KTM, given a choice of those bikes.

+1 For the Yamaha XT660 Tenere.

Steer well clear of KTM's. My mate fixes and services his more than he rides it! It's oil service schedule is quite honestly stupid. :eek3:

KTM's are too expensive to buy (and run) and too highly strung. :thumbdown:

I know many of you love KTM's for good reason. Their build quality is top notch and when they are running they give a truly blistering performance.

The Yamaha will be bulletproof reliable and won't need a full service half way round a RTW. :scooter:

The Yamaha Tenere series of trail bikes is an adventure legend.

If you are an ordinary oink without bags of dosh (like most of us mortals), the Tenere makes ultimate sense. If you are a rich boy then by all means go for a highly strung KTM.

KTM 690R 2012 or 640 Adv used
 

I've seen no indication whether you actually tried those bikes or not. If not that would be the next step I guess.

I currently ride KTMs: 640 Adv 2002, 690R 2012 (66 hp), a 990R. I also own and ride Honda and Yamaha bikes, although no Tenere, as well as a Triumph. Since there's simply no comparable to a 640 Adv for what you want to do, I'd go for the second best around, e.g. the 690R but would definitely buy a 2012+ as the issues from previous years have been taken care of. The only challenge in my view is dealing with poor quality fuel in some countries, for that the EFI and fuel pump may call for extra precautionary measures.

Yamaha Tenere is decently looking bike, out of the box ready at the cost of 50kg more for roughly 20 hp less, and it will make the whole thing boring. There are tons of quality equipment to customize a 690R to your specific needs, both KTM and aftermarket, as well as availability of used gear should you wish to minimize costs or eventually sell what you don't need anymore.

At the risk of being off topic, there are sometimes 640 Adv in excellent conditions appearing for sale now and then. It could be an idea to try to get hold of one of them.

Try both, it will be easier to make up you mind!

Oil service schedule for a 690 is 7500 km. and 10,000 km on the '12, '13 (same as the tenere I believe?)

The weight. about 206 kilos for the Tenere. (dry)
138 kilos for the KTM (dry) stock. Mine weighed in at about 150 kilos in the rallyraid tanks ready for travel. 56 kilo difference?!?! My KTM with full kit weighs 210 kilos.

Price. Tenere €7699. KTM €8695 + (€1000 for tanks)

Hp. Tenere around 50. KTM around 70.
Here is you MAJOR misconception. That the KTM is a high strung race motor. This is far from the truth. It is a well refined, efficient, powerful, reliable motor. It is capable of SO MUCH MORE. And it will handle it.

Also, with the KTM you get other great stuff like WP suspension (amazing out of the box. Add a stiffer rear spring.. all you need for travel). Brembo brakes. DID dirtstar rims (I finally cracked one after 75,000 km of ridiculous abuse. these things are TOUGH). Did i mention from the factory it is about 70 kilos less than the Tenere? You don't need to be a "rich boy" to get a KTM... but you will need to be a strongman champion to pick up a tenere by yourself it you drop it.

Like I said before. Ride both. Your choice will be clear.

The Yamaha XT series of motorcycles have a bulletproof reliability reputation second to NONE and that includes ALL KTM's.

The Yamaha XT600 (all models) are simply an adventure legend. :thumbup1:

Just look at the history of XT's to find the facts.

Probably the most widely used budget RTW trail bike EVER made.

It's gonna take KTM a long time to catch up.

Yamaha over-priced themselves in the European market a few years ago (nearly £15K asking price for a FJR1300!) and, as a company, I believe they have tacitedly admitted as much - they may have only frozen their prices rather than dropped them though.
Yam sold 40% less bikes in Europe in 2012 than in 2009.
Most of their current profit arises from sales of 125cc bikes in SE Asia which tells me that they are not making the bikes that westerners' want to own; not in the big numbers that they used to anyway.

So, yes, £7K for a 660cc single cyl engined machine doesn't add up compared with what Honda are offering with twin cyl engine design for far less money; but neither of them is a favourite manufacturer of mine at present.

KTM got my vote a few months ago. :thumbup1:

KLRs have a reputation of being reliable also.:rofl: But you will never see me on one. :nono:

The XT600 was a great bike. Even now.. if you only have a couple thousand to spend on a bike. But they are not bullet proof. I have first hand experience helping change suspension on one.. in Mongolia that had to be shipped in.

Obviously I have orange blood... and kent has Yamalube flowing in his veins. Every bike has its faults and every bike has its strengths. but really... 50 KILO difference?!?!doh I guarantee you can't drop that weight for the price difference.

I know almost dozen people who have been traveling on other bikes (tenere, 800xc, bmw 800, klr, bmw 650, xr650)... And switched over to a 690 after riding one.
Ride them both so you don't end up buying 2 bikes when you realise which one you should have gotten from the start.

Legends are in the past! the futures bright, the futures orange :)
Much more fun and if you are riding it everyday that's what it's all about.
Mark

You've cornered me! I give up! :helpsmilie:

Perhaps I am a little biased in favour of the legendary and venerable Yamaha XT600. I do after all own 2 of them myself.

But whatever you "Orange" dudes say, KTM's do have a way to go to catch up with the XT in terms of VALUE FOR MONEY. :thumbup1:

I rest my case on the value for money thing. :clap:

Have you ridden a KTM 690?

You might not want to.. you might end up selling the 2 Yamis you love so much to buy one.

The original post was meant to compare a 660 tenere and a 690 KTM. New I think. If he is looking at cheap used bikes, then i'm sure the xt600, dr600, ktm 640 adv are all options.

I would love to hear what decision he actually made if any?

Have people forgotten about the incredible Honda's?? 650L and the 650R. Both hugely reliable...

www.touringted.com

www.touringted.com

Some chance!
:innocent:
It would be interesting to know if the decision is made and how it turned out though - as per an earlier comment; that might bring the OP to a satisfactory conclusion.

I recall that there have been one or two reports of failure of the XTZ Ten standard shock absorber when it is pushed in hard riding; unlike the almost constant emphasis on the short comings of other manufacturers OEM shocks, this factor doesn't get the exposure that it might deserve so that owners are forewarned.

I am very happy with the OEM White Power kit on the front and back of my bike.

I'm not sure which KTMs you have ridden.. But the only way you can group them with BMW is "European made". BMW are very.. well.. soft. (rims, suspension, riding style required..) Maybe uninspiring is a better word.

I promise "uninspired" will never be the feeling you get if you ride a 690. I guarantee most of you who dislike the 690 have not ridden one.

For those of you who have ridden a 690 and can honestly say that the Yamaha is the one you will choose... I'm sorry. but you can't be saved :innocent:

Try to rent (or borrow) both bikes for a weekend and try them by yourself. Buying a bike is a very personal choice.
You should not buy the bike "most people" like but the bike you like.

It will cost you two wekends and some money but then you know that you spend your money on the right bike for you and not on the bike that other people like, but that may not suit you and your riding style.

You can try to make a deal at the bike shop, that if you buy one after the testweekend, you don't pay the rent (I have done that too).

While I like that idea in theory, I think its impossible to work for adventure riding in practice. If you borrow a bike, you are going to do some light touring on it around town, some country back roads, some motorway, all on asphalt probably, around the developed world for a day or so. Without luggage.

I think that gives a very misleading impression as to how you will feel on the bike after riding in the 3rd world, loaded up, for 6 months.

Everything is easy when taking bikes for test rides in the developed world, so with very little else to go on, people tend to go for the most comfortable bike ... which is why so many choose the 1200GSA, but then that choice becomes a misery when loaded all up in Mongolia.

Borrowing a bike for a weekend and riding around roads (or even short offroad sections) in the west is, I think, likely to lead to a poor bike choice for a long duration overland journey thru the developing world. My previous point about weight is a classic example. In the west, 50 kgs extra dissolves away and isnt a big issue. Out in the adventure zone, it takes on more significance, and for off road, its critical.

Its almost impossible to test for how will you feel about a bike after being on the road with it in the 3rd world for 6 months, without going on the road in the 3rd world for 6 months with it. i.e. there is no substitute for experience.

I think to a large degree, someone choosing an adventure bike should still be very open to the advice of others who have used those bikes under consideration (or similar), in the real world, on the types of rides you want to do, over the kind of duration you want to ride.

If you borrow or rent a bike and ride it around town for a weekend, its a suitable method of choosing a bike that you ride around town on, on weekends or maybe commute to work on. There is no equivalent method of evaluation for 6 month adventure rides.

I am now on my way back from Mongolia on 2009 xt660z tenere. I spent one month in Mongolia and did first, the northern route and then central dropping down to Altai (south). Ten is 206 kg with all liquids. It worked fine for me with speeds on the offroad/washboard ranging from 80 to 120 km/h. I can pick it up myself with 40 kg luggage on (aluminum panniers + camping gear in roll bag). Rear shock gave up already in Kazakhstan. In UB I had it partially rebuilt, but when I will get back to Europe I will definitely change it. Front rim is dented in 3 places, but still can go 120/130 km/h on a tarmac (back to Russia).
So far, very happy with the bike and will not trade it for KTM. I am completely satisfied with crossing Mongolia in 5 days, but if you want to do it in 4 days then go for the orange power. ;-)

Sent from my GT-I9100G

Driving with Greg from Germany to UB and now on the way back. I can say that the xt 660 is very tough and reliable, and fairly fast offroad with the right driver. We also drove with a couple of KTM's 690s on the northern route, and yes these are awsome in the dirt.. But i dont now if i want one for long trips. We heard what problem they had come acrossed, and a saw cluthbasket come off twice in a day. For me these are high performance racing machines, that can do rtw tours with the right preperation and service. But they are not off the shell rtw toures, like the tenere's.

The broken tenere suspension snoah talks about, was the original suspension for my 24year old xt600 3ds that gave up.

My Girlfrind and I ride a KTM 690 (2010) and a KTM 690R (2012) in South America for nearly a year both have 28'000km on the clock. We ride mostly offroad.

Would I buy this bike again?
Yes for me it's perfect!

Why we chose this bike?
light, light and light for a 690ccm. Awsome suspension and a service interval of 10'000km.

What we like on the bike?
With all the boxes, stuff and 26liter of gas is around 200kg. The bike brings you everywhere, very good suspension. The clutch going realy light (one finger). Working on the bike goes very fast and easy. When you fall down nearly nothing will brake. We tested many times :-).

What could be better?
Don't have alot of power under 2000rpm. In this case i like the engine of the BMW G650XChallange more. For me it's the better engine for offroad. Mirrors, indicator and the speedometer have very bad quality. They placed the tank opening on a very stupid place.

What problem we had during the trip?
Twice the speedometer broke down and we got it replaced by KTM.
Once we had a problem with the starterrelais. It didn't open anymore. To fix the problem i need only a hammer :-). We also got replaced by KTM. This are all technical problems we had so far.

What else?
We lost 4 mirrors an 6 indicator :-) I only say offroad.
I do all my service at my one in the KTM Workshop. Order the parts I need in advance.


Choose the bike you like to ride!

Some picture i took in Bolivia
https://plus.google.com/photos/11470...98879410740033

How you adventure riders in north western europe don't slit your wrists due to lack off off-road possibilities is beyond me.

I agree with walter. Personally i think both bikes aren't the best option, but this is always a personal matter different for everyone.

There is another way though. Instead of renting one of each at home rent them in the Pyrenees or Sweden and take the single trail forestry tracks. As an addition to that also rent something like a DRZ-E for half a day and re-ride a track. This gives a real picture on how weight affects the fun factor even with limited to no off-road riding skills.

You might even take extra time to avoid those long and boring main routes and opt for safer, more remote and more adventurous back routes which will pay you back, guaranteed.

Only ever ridden the yam, but did read a story not long ago about two lads riding from london around the world on KTM 690's. Both had massive problems in Russia with the watery fuel destroying the fuel injection system. just my two sense. Im a DR rider because i know I can fix it with a hammer.

23000km into a South Am trip on a heavily upgraded Ten (Ohlins on the back, titanium pipe, Power Commander, blah blah blah). Great bike, tough and reliable. But I still can't get the idea of a Rally Raided 690 out if my head - especially every time I have to pick my mount up out of the sand....

Not been on here for ages,but may as well add some sort of useless contribution...
Had a 2008 660 tenere,have ridden a 690 ktm..but bizarre as it may sound I've done all my travelling on an 84 model 600 tenere..the only negative about is maybe it could have longer legs on the motorways..

sofa' so good
 

Sorry for my absence and really appreciate ALL the opinions. Been working with my son and trying to sell a house so life got in the way but the search is still on and the afore mentioned two bikes are still in the final.
Reasons: Ive had a few older 600/660 singles and wouldn't want to do thousands of miles on tarmac with one period!
Bought an "Unstoppable" BMW F800gs but when shit fuel "stopped it" it took two hours just to reach the spark plugs in my garage! that was the last straw. I hated that bike and it weighed a ton.
I have ridden the Tenere and found it a bit agricultural and underpowered but that was road riding on fast UK tarmac. I'm sure it would be as fast as I need on a big trip. Main reservation is weight which many have mentioned. I took the beamer all over southern Spain off road and the combination of weight and height spoiled any fun.
The Katey (2012) would be much better on dust and mud because of its heritage and yes that fifty kgs would make a big difference even when loaded up (maybe the difference between a bruised or a broken leg).
The KTM is fussy with fuel so maybe strict filtering and a bottle of fuel additive (and maybe a spare fuel pump) would not weigh much.
Ive been watching the eDog London to Sydney videos
London to Sydney motorcycle adventure - Episode 1 - Continental Drift - YouTube
They have done a good job of swinging me towards the Kate.
Have a long talk at the NEC bike show next week and see if I can get a test ride on one.
alan

I had no issues with shit fuel in Uzbekistan in my 690. I didn't even change the map to "shit fuel setting". The fuel was 80 octain or below. My MSR dragon fly even had problems burning it. After the 690 burned that goat piss whit no problem, I don't doubt the fuel system anymore.

1. If you have a 690 older then 2012, put a "Profil" filter on the pump. From 2012 on, they install a better filter from the factory.

2. I removed the main fuel filter from the tank and installed one before the injector. This way I can change it easily and I can keep an eye on it.

Oh, and yesterday I clicked over 90,000 km :thumbup1:

What strikes me about KTM is that they make changes quite frequently and regularly with their bike detail/designs, unlike many other brands which will ignore obvious design defects in their products.

Snoah, with 90K Km under your belt on the 690 you are the ideal candidate to put the factual feedback into the KTM forum in here - it tends to be backward looking to the 640 in the information content.

There is a good start point in this thread or maybe you could just start your own brand new one about the bike.
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...0km-trip-66324
It would be good to see a sticky 690 one in there to bring the KTM forum into this decade. :innocent: