One for the shorties!
 

790mm seat height eh???

Dear Santa...

hahahahahahahahaha:clap:bier

another teaser clip from ccm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...8&noredirect=1

Shame CCM were unable to come to Danny's gig at Hagg's Bank last weekend as they originally said they would.

I had a CCM 604 E it was the worst bike I have ever owned a complete let down, I have no doubt in my mind that if I had spent a grand less on a brand new Honda XR 400 I would still be riding it now.

CCM were full of passion back in 1999, hey they even got a bike to the end of the Dakar!!!!! how many spares they used to do this is not worth considering.

Where do I start when it ran it was a loveable beast, but when it didint which was often it was a pig; Bad electrics, bad engine some good components suspension etc but they just didnt gel as a whole package.

I think the suzuki engines and electrics helped but then they started knocking out cheap chineese junk.

I like the look of the new bike but I wouldnt waste your money and more so time. You can buy a rally kit for Yamaha 450's and they make more power and are more reliable.

I would sooner ride a 2.5 k used Honda anywhere and know that it can be fixed easily in most places.

or just get a good XR400 which is what I should have done back in '99 !!!:scooter: don't believe all the hype, it's funny how all that passion disapears when your bike gives up in the Pico's and suddenly the factory couldnt give a flying £$&*

I really would hate for anyone to waste their hard earned money, I bought a TTR 250 when I got rid of the CCM, yeah it want as fancy or trick looking but dyou know what it worked and it kept on working and it still brings a smile to my face.

There is a reason they went bust last time, do you really want to be part of the next mess. Good luck getting the electronic suspension fixed by your average back street mechanic.

If I lived next door to the factory I would still ride anything else:scooter:

I HATE to agree this posting.....

But sadly, I do agree with it.

CCM have A LOT of work to do to repair a very poor reputation of reliability and poor long term after sales support.

Ted, cheers I hate to post it but I supported what was a British firm back in 1999, I spent my hard earned money and all I got was shattered dreams.

I would hate for others to do the same.

I still want CCM to do well and prove me wrong but I guess only time will tell with that.

Why take the risk, when the risk could be your trip of a lifetime.:scooter:

Wow so many negatives - your bad experience is awful. At CCM the company has changed hopefully for the better - the asset strippers and bean counters from the 90's have gone the family are back in charge they need to get this right or they will sink and I wish them well. I recall someone called SKODA had a similar problem with quality, reliability, products and performance back in the late 80s early 90's look at them now. The chinese motorcycle companies also had and have huge problems of quality and image - but they are changing and will be a force to be reckoned with in the future. Look at things the other way round, BMW once the stalwart of quality, simplicity reliability and performance are now largely overpriced, lacking in quality and sales are led by marketing strategy harking back to the history and the days of old but not in essence for some of the overpriced, underdeveloped overweight trinkets they pour out of the factory now. I've ridden Italian bike most of my biking life, and all i hear is how bad they from everyone but you know I can't really think of an Italian bike I have owned that was so bad that I would slag it or the factory off or never want to own again. Yes they have had issues and foibles but they have been forgiven ( very big rose tinted specs here) - so with that in mind and my finances somewhat scorched I have had to drop the idea of the ccm and have just bought an elefant - which I think is the perfect harmony of a bike built with passion by men with a big heart but maybe a failing bankroll, good components maybe put together badly with not so good wiring - just to give it enough foibles to make it interesting.

VW bought Skoda. Skoda make rebadged VWs. I'm sure if Honda or BMW took over CCM they could produce something reliable(Honda)/that the customer wants (BMW).

Likewise CCM was owned during the 90's and up to 2005 by the Robson family owned company( when STUXTTTR bought his bike ). The original Family son Austin Clews Bought back the factory and name after it had been run down, asset stripped and was no longer a viable concern he has started a fresh, re invested very heavily in the company - New ownership, new tooling, new ideas, a more focused direction and a will to be customer led. And still they are kicked before they stand up. Comparing CCM now and CCM circa 1990 is a bit like Skoda 1990 and VW / Skoda 2013 or triumph meridan and Mr Bloors Triumph. (Maybe on a somewhat smaller scale). Its a shame no one will give them a chance and judge the bikes and the company after they have been going a year or two. I mean to say how many of Mr hondas machines have pailed into insignificance cos they were crap - too many to remember, yes he has had good ones but a fair share of failures. in fact this is a quote from the man himself - Soichiro Honda, the founder of Honda said, ‘Many people dream of success. Success can only be achieved through repeated failure and introspection. Success represents the 1 per cent of your work that results from the 99 per cent that is called failure.’ maybe this can be re applied to CCM. Think positive.:)

I'm gonna let you road test the ccm adventure when they eventually get it to market Jake. After (if?) all the faults get ironed out, then I might consider it as a serious alternative to the bikes I already own (built by Honda, Suzuki, Triumph and BMW (rebadged Aprilia;) ). With these I also let others road test the make/model combos first. :(

Back to the vw/skoda analogy: vw had a proven track record of reliability when they took over the basket case skoda. Skoda were forced to build cars the vw way. I'm not convinced Austin Clews has a prior track record manufacturing a reliable motor vehicle. I wish him all the very best improving the damaged ccm reputation. I hope you don't get flogged a pup in the interim.

I would LOVE to own a CCM. I really really would. I love that they're different and can aim at a smaller market with specific machines.

I'll let someone else be the test dummy though...

I might pick one up second hand in 18-24 months. See how they fair.

I would have bought 2 if they wouldn't have an enduro engine in it.

Saw them in the flesh last weekend
 

As per at the Adv Overland Show (where there were two bikes on their display) it is still in prototype form and CCM continue to take feedback.
They said that they will be fitting only the 450cc BMW engine and they aim to have 10 of their bikes at the next annual show at the NEC, UK (last week of Nov http://www.motorcyclelive.co.uk/?gcl...FYdc3god3yEA3Q )

I went to the Show last weekend on the Sunday Morning , I saw that AJP had various models on display but I didnt see CCM anywhere ? maybe they got bored by Sunday ? Great show mind really enjoyed it:scooter:

At least if they sell any bikes before the NEC show it gives the new owner :scooter: half a chance of getting them fixed! Jokes aside I found the only way to get the Factory to take any positive action was to attend the Show and sort things out on the Stand, They agreed to pick the bike up and return it to the Factory and keep it there until it was fixed. In the meantime I was without transport but at least the bike ran ok for a month or so until it broke down again !

I departed sunday morning before the day arrivals came in, to ride for most of those daylight hours.
CCM were quite near the AJP stand with two bikes under their tent - a few pitches along in the row and next to the gateway into the adjacent field = back to back with James Cargo shipping services if that rings a bell.

All of the bike stands were in that row of pitches with the exception of one or two dealers selling accessories.
During the Saturday night, the organiser of the show was a bit apologetic for the relatively small number of stands relating to 2 wheels and he is hoping to have more there next year.

http://www.adventureoverlandshow.com/
There were quite a few riders there from the Friday night with a special offer of 3 nights camping for £25 that included entry to the show on both Saturday and Sunday (but I had seen enough by Sunday am and the bike wanted to go riding).

Yeah all rings a bell minus CCM, there was a bit of a gap and then some nice looking FAT tyred mountain bikes. My little lad wanted an ice cream so my attention may have been diverted but I would be suprised if I totally missed them, hey ho be interesting to see what they have at the Dirtbike show if I can fit in a couple of hours on the Thursday afternoon.

As for the show, pity there was not more two wheelers but its one of the first shows I have been to where nearly everything was interesting and after a couple of hours wandering there was still new stuff to look at.

Would it not have been better for CCM to have fitted the 650 lump in out of the X Challenge/Country as this engine has been proven

That's a heavy motor, which likely goes against what CCM is trying achieve

Husky already went this route with the TR, which was significantly heavier than the preceding TE.

In some ways the BMW 450 motor is an understandable choice.

It's relatively cheap.
It's got the BMW name to attract the monied / badge conscious punters
It's light.
It's not being used by any competitor to avoid price comparison.
The power is very reasonable for the purpose, and likely a power-up kit can be made available at a later stage (extra profit).

Pity about the lack of a bombproof reputation, but then CCM are already have to with that issue.

Maybe a better strategy would have been to start with a totally different name...


Sent from my A898 Duo using Tapatalk 4

Lots and lots of positives coming out from the NEC show about the CCM - yet its all gone very hushed on here. ( there is quite a bit on Advriders site) I did not get to the show but have spoke with a few people that did and they said CCM had designers and tech chaps on hand to answer questions and that they did in fact answer everything openly and honestly that they were asked about the bikes, further stated that the finished bikes were simply excellent in both quality and execution and attracted huge amounts of interest not to mention a lot of orders that were placed at the show. Anyone here go to the show maybe test any of the bikes at the show ? any thing further to add to this thread.

Positive feedback..

A few people need to go and do some RTW's on them now.

I wonder if CCM will give me one to ride to Magadan on ;)

Big ups to CCM for giving it a go ... I love that bike! But I fear they may not be able to hang on long enough to re-establish a solid reputation, bringing in new buyers sufficient to make ends meet. Several USA start ups tried and failed at producing dual sport /enduro bikes: Like Cannondale and ATK ... (going back to the 80's and 90's).

Both had promise (and some success) but neither could hang on long enough to make their bikes main stream nor improve them enough to compete on a world stage. Both were more competitively priced than the current CCM relative to comparable bikes. A $10,000 usd plus dirt bike is a hard sell.

CCM has the additional handicap of a "not so great" previous reputation (UK) to deal with. They are virtually unknown in the US. (perhaps a good thing?) What they may need is a big buck investor. Perhaps they can follow Erik Buell's path in his struggle to re-launch his Buell Race bike after being dumped by Harley-Davidson?

Lucky for Buell, he is now 49% owned by Indian giant Hero Moto (Hero Honda), one of top three MC manufacturers in the world. If you have $56,000 USD handy ... you can buy a Buell racer NOW! :helpsmilie:

IMHO, CCM would be a perfect match for Triumph. According to insiders at Triumph, they have been looking around for a path into lighter adventure/ dirt/Enduro bikes ... specifically singles. Could CCM be a match for them?
?c?

With Triumph's continuing success (and profits) ... seems this could be a good time to begin producing Enduro/Rally/Travel bikes. With Triumph's set up in Thailand, they could probably produce the bike there at around one third the cost of the UK with no loss in quality.

CCM's Kymco (Taiwan) motor (BMW designed) is a question. Kymco have outstanding quality ... so maybe continue the partnership with Kymco continuing to produce the lively 450? Or? Triumph have said they DID NOT want to invest in an "all new" motor ... so who knows? ?c?

Many confuse the Loncin, China made motors that BMW/Husky have used in X bikes, G650's, Husky Terra et al with the G450 Kymco motor used in the CCM bike. Kymco produce the BMW designed G450 motor (for BMW) used in the former BMW dirt bike. Who knows how much longer they will manufacture it
or when stocks will run out?

Kymco are a good company ... but Loncin are improving FAST. Loncin produce millions of bikes/scooters annually, along with 10 (or so) other major Chinese scooter/bike producers. Kymco also invented much of the CVT trans tech now used in cars, scooters and bikes.

Well if you look at the 690R (the 690 engine, not the 650..), KTM successfully produced a engine which does 10.000km service intervals, and kept the weight below 140km. And with the latest incarnation of the 690R it looks to be a very solid package. Ok, if one then adds a rally/enduro tower and tanks then it's probably an extra 20kg...

I don't think their choice had much to do with brand reputation, more price to keep the price down, as they will never be able to sell the number KTM, or anyone else does which means that they have to look at the grand picture of numbers which means that they have to choose to use some cheaper options than fx. KTM.

I am still looking forward to CCM handing out a bike to an overland traveler to let him/her have a go at it for a longer trip, and then see what happens (they might be able to convince Colebatch to take the honors:innocent:). That is probably the only way they will be able to prove the quality of the bike.


Casper

I want this job. Where do I apply.

I agree totally with that. I am VERY interested on that bike, especially as they took women feed back on and would make a low seat version for short riders. (I'm sick of super tall Heavy bikes!). It ticks all the boxes!

BUT... I would wait until someone has gone across Africa or to Magadan .... for my next trip I'll stick to a small 125 (as I cannot find a light low seat 300 to 650...)
So TED if they can give someone a bike to test the hard way I would put my order in soon after .. for now I will wait! Like many people here I guess!
Now if CCM is reading this thread .... Lending a bike to a single rider to test it for what it is supposed to do, would not be expensive from a marketing point of view and could bring lots of clients in... IF the bike perform!

They could do a lot worse.

I dont think manufacturers really get how much influence ride reports have on potential buyers. As Maria points out, many will hold off buying until they see the proof it can do the job.

If they were smart Ted, they should give lend you one and say ride it to Magadan.

That sort of marketing is dangerous. They would need to let Ted pick a bike at random and then be totally independent on his trip. If the bike breaks they've gone backwards because even if they get it fixed PDQ it will be reported as needing some film actors support truck to keep it moving. The traditionalists in marketing will also struggle as the press will hate the social media aspect (it is putting them out of business) and report it with negative spin. Send a journalist instead of Ted and no one believes them, we'd all think the glowing reports were connected to the expense account. There is also the risk that the bike is a pile of excrement and Ted will say so. What will other potential markets think? If CCM are still pushing the competition bike you can put in a box aspect will that market think overlander = weight?

You would need an MD like Bill Gates or Richard Branson to sign that one off, most will just hide in their office and go with an extra quarter page in MCN until some one buys one and does it themselves.

Andy

While I agree with you to a point, I still think there is no such thing as bad advertising - except maybe if the engine explodes or the frame snaps in half and is un-repairable. When the sub frames snapped on LWRounds BMW's or the ABS got fried when they tried to weld it, the net result was huge sales for BMW. Granted if Ewan or Charlie's bike had died it would not have looked so good, but It was still one of KTM's biggest ever marketing fau pas not to give them KTM 990 Adv's

I think the sales pitch learned from LWR/LWD was that you can buy a BMW and have an 'Adventure' - cobble the bike back together in the middle of Mongolia and make it through. That's why sales of GS's went crazy, it was the notion that you could have an adventure, not that you had to actually do it.

With no disrespect to Ted, he may not be the first choice for a company to promote their products - nor would any 'unknown', even people that we hold in high regard in the overlanding community. what CCM needs is someone fairly well known who wants to have an adventure, if the bike needs fixing it wont matter, as long as it makes its way to the end it stands a good chance of selling reasonably well. The format LWR/LWD did with several bikes, knowingly or unwittingly worked perfectly, the main stars of the show made it ok, no one really cared that Claudio's bike didn't make it without issues.

The only thing that will not help the CCM is its small(er) capacity and price. The GS sold well partially due to it being a big bike that people would use on highways/ motorways all day, loaded and can be used 2up, the CCM is a much more focused machine.

But at the end of the day, as we have all mentioned it needs someone to get on one and ride it RTW. This at least would reinforce sales within the Overlanding/HUBB/ADV Rider communities and would at least get some money info CCM to cover any improvements/modifications that need to be done to the production

I was just thinking about who to get to ride the CCM on a big trip, Richard Hammond and James May (Top Gear UK) sprang to mind, both have an interest in motorbikes.........Hammond is vertically challenged...perfect.

BMW, along with most manufacturers have being paying journalists to ride their bikes for years.. It's nothing new.

Moto Guzzi even gave their big adventure bike to 20 odd riders and let them do a Alaska to Ushuaia on them if I remember correctly.

They just made sure they had some support and everyone had a lot of fun.. That's what you remember when you get home.

How accurate ANY reports are are obviously questionable. Same goes with any magazine or bog paper rags like MCN.

The reviews are heavily weighed for many reasons. I have a friend who worked for MCN about ten years ago. He made it no secret that most of the reviews were made up or sugar coated by freebies and how many free drinks they got a the track days etc..




Then again, asking the average Joe is no good either. Most people praise their own bikes because THEY were the ones who chose it. To say "It's crap" would be a confession of a bad choice and a waste of money.

The ONLY way to see if a bike is any good is to try it yourself. That's why I've owned about 50 bikes. Buy, try, sell .... buy, try, sell ... And on and on

CCM are going the right thing by showcasing but they need to do a lot more than let people stroke it at a bike show.

Speedbrain sells some engines right now for half price: G450 X engine, silver, BMW

BTW:
The 450 engine is 33Kg, the 650X is 50kg.

Maybe we should start a Petition : "GET TED A CCM BIKE to MAGADAN" and send it to CCM when we have enough comments/signatures!

Social media is extremely important these days. As ppl said, no one believe journalists' reviews as it is only disguised marketing.

And who, these days, would not be spendning hours on the web for reviews, before buying anything???? I know I do!
Short of the bike exploding I cannot see how this would be bad publicity. The cost for CCM would be only the bike.... which would be vastly compensated by the publicity via discussions here and other travellers forums....

Ted maybe you should send this thread to CCM? :D

Haha maybe... :D

Hmm, so the rags make in up in some sort of alcohol fueled haze, the mags only use words from the nice end of the dictionary in case advertising revenue vanishes and no punter is going to admit they've bought a dog as it makes them looks stupid. Nothing changes then - as they say "many a true word is spoken in jest" and the conclusion above is exactly the message that comes out of a book of the old Ogri cartoons from the 70's that I found recently. Not only are the journo's at it now but their fathers were as well. Must be epigenetics!

Blind date style ride and dump seems like an expensive way of finding out whether a bike is for you. Unless you're some sort of uber salesman (which I'm not) every transaction seems to cost me money. The cynicism that comes with age helps a bit I suppose in that you learn not to trust anything anyone says, ever, but nihilism isn't a good guide to the bike market.

I've boiled my decision making process down to two principles - "buy in haste, repent at leisure" and "a thing of beauty is a joy forever". I usually end up buying bikes I like the look of after thinking about it for some time - but I've bought some rubbish over the years. There must be a better way.

This subject have been discussed before both here and on other forums. What you see is not always the truth. There was a few other things involved in that than what you see on these video, or read in the book (other people might want to elaborate).

And btw. they wanted 950 Adv's as the 990 Adv. only started production in 2006 (as per. wikipedia).

But yes LWR did do magic for BMW, but most of the people buying these BMW's actually never go anywhere interesting (I used to be one of them).

CCM would never be able to beat BMW on that one. They also would never be able to produce that number of bikes. They need to get the overland travelers to buy the bikes, but that will not happen until it is show that the bike actually can do the job.

Casper

KTM's advertising "failure" gets them mentioned in every conversation about how half the world wants a Special Friend with a BMW and the other half thinks it was about as realistic as the other adverts where Kylie likes me in a special way because I have the same deodorant as 300000000 other people. Had Charlie Bormann ended up with a drive shaft through his head and an Afghan drugs lord as his new really special friend, KTM would looked just as good.

The KTM answer is more rough sex for their male deer guaranteed, BMW gambled and won that time.

I'd sign that petition though (and put up the bottle of whisky bet that he can't break it no matter how hard he tries and how often :innocent: )

Andy

Going back and reading this thread from the start I came upon Colebatch's post ... #9 on page one quoted above. Excellent point and something I'm sure CCM are aware of.

This is a big deal ... and getting bigger. It's sure that some of the "new" companies will focus on producing middle weight Adventure bikes. Suffice it to say two punters going RTW on a Bajaj, Loncin or Hero, won't have the same impact as two film stars on BMW GS's. But how long can that "name brand" cache hold sway with the masses? Eventually the Indian and Chinese bikes will actually get better ... might even get very good? It's already happening.

Remember, KTM are now owned near 49% by Bajaj India. Some interesting bikes coming out of that partnership.

Certain riders will hold fast to the standard bearers ... but many aren't long time dedicated MC travelers. Mostly tourists & local riders. BMW's GS sales aren't in immediate danger from CCM or Indian or Chinese interlopers.
No, the GS mystic (myth?) will continue to hold strong ... and IMO, BMW have earned it. No, I'm not saying the GS is the ideal Adventure bike (Ewan and Charlie proved that) ... but it IS a good bike overall. Much better than 5 or 10 years ago ... but not a bike for everyone.

Looking round the over lander community, easy to see many "new" riders are on a budget, maybe just out of school? More well off riders are usually too old and bent to get much out of a performance bike like the CCM. Many stick to old air heads or KLR's. Sure, they have the money ... but aren't in need of top flight performance. The younger crowd won't be able to afford an 8,000 UKP travel bike. (about $12,000 USD) Maybe in 10 or 15 years? :innocent:

I wish CCM all the best ... but even on a good day ... their demographic is tiny and shrinking as more well off riders age. Older travelers are going to want to be catered to, many will sign up for guided tours. Can't blame them. The bike ridden will be of less importance I suspect. Look at the BMW crowd that Tiffany Coates led around in S. America. Lots of Gray hair and bald heads there ... and good on them for getting off the couch and doing it. But I'm not sure ANY will be buying a CCM ... unless as a gift for a son/daughter or nephew! :mchappy:

The more I look at it I think,for its intended use they put the wrong engine in it...
Maybe we will just have wait a year,buy one that 450 motors had a monumental calamity and pop an xt 660 motor in it...if I can see that staring me in the face,and I'm pretty daft,surely someone that's supposed to be clever and design things for company's should have forseen it....
Its more likely that hitlers living under Antarctica as head of BMW bike sales than a 450 thing going around the world without some sort of engine calamity..

Now that would be more like it.....

I've always wished someone would stick a FI 650 single in a decent chassis and not make it weigh like a barrow of bricks.

I was GUTTED when yamaha released the weight stats of the XT660 Tenere. I was literally waiting to be the first one to buy one.... So disappointing.

I had a 660 tenere a couple years back,quite nice on the road,not bad off it,but just a bit chunky..
In a piece of completly unscientific testing I get a fair idea about how manageable bikes are by the speed I can ride down my front steps,narrowly avoiding side of my van and stopping at the bottom before crashing through front door or knocking dustbins into orbit.....current standings are..1st place 250 gas gas,2nd place xt 600 tenere,3 and 4th is probably a tie between the xt 660 z tenere and the tdr 250....f......I me I might get a job as a motorcycle journalist,write a load of crap and have no idea what I'm on about...

Youd be PERFECT !!!!

The good thing about being not too tightly wrapped is no one takes you too seriously...not seen any nazi flying saucers taking the cash from BMW gs sales to the Antarctica...but did once see what seemed to be a few g 450x things with clutch issues at an event in South Wales in 09,I think,passed 2 on different climbs that seemed to have lost forward motion and lots of revving occurring and did see that team touratech seemed very well practiced at clutch replacement by laying bike on its side and setting about it in a hurry..probably not quite as done in the dealers but much quicker..
I've seen a 650 x or whatever its called going quite well in fairly tough going and not grinding to a halt....just a shame the 450 didn't work out..

Still can't get me head round this insistence on CCM to provide and prove the gp450 machine in the public domain argument - no one ask's mista Honda or kawasaki engineering to do such things, KTM didn't do it and still get slagged off (they were still a small company without the bigger budgets of BMW etc, - and they seem to have done fine to be honest, BMW did provide freebies and made a lot of sales but are one of the most slagged off products on this and every other site whether you like them or not, so then we all start jumping on a band wagon based on Ewan and Charlies freebies (if ever two people could afford to pay for the bikes and the travel then they are near the top of the list -Just behind me mind you) So CCM with its small factory, staff levels you can count on two hands and two feet and a budget probably less than BMWs screen development department are meant to prove the machine ( not like they have not offered teat rides , journalist rides - pre and post production and been open to visits to the factory and question staff - but you all want more and ask them to take the risk that no one else does in the manufacturing market. We have all seen them bend over backward to listen to what we wanted and within the constraints of producing a machine to try and meet that and keep it financially viable (remember they have had development costs, design and pre production costs, racing development - on the frame etc - tooling costs and then the balls to put out a bit of a one off bike to a small marketplace and still trying to keep the price realistic as well as do everything possible (more I must say than almost any manufacturer I have known) to meet customer demands - do i think they should give a freebie - no cos its been slagged off at every point before its on the road, one minor problem will be blown out of all proportion on websites and kill the bike and the company cos we all know mr honda/yam/suz and kawa along with a mirad of others have products that never fart the wrong way never mind go wrong. As for the 450 not working out we are looking at the same base of an engine re developed to do a different task to the original set up so maybe the clutch issue will be resolved by less revs, less power and not racing it. Look at any race bike in extreme conditions ( take the dakar they almost have a partial rebuild at the end of every day - the n they release a road bike and spread the servicing to 4000 miles and everyones ok with that you are comparing apples with pears here, Plenty of bikes etc in race mode race bikes burn clutches/ engines out - but in a road biased incarnation they work fine. Race engines by nature are at the extreme end of the viability, knock that stress back by 20% and you have a totally different set of parameters - thats what CCM have done they have also made other changes to soften the power delivery and ridability /reliability.

We all know the japs can get things wrong sometimes but they don't seem to get kicked in the nuts as much as the smaller brands do..then there's he fact that some bikes are simply fashionable and sell a lot of bikes on the back of it,possibly ktm and BMW for example..
The Spanish can build a fantastic 2 stoke enduro or trials bike..the gas gas,tiny company,but a superb bike built without the massive resources of some ompanys.the ktms also a good bike but they've had or borrowed the cash to pay the right riders to ride them and done a good job of marketing them.
I think if ccm had any Suzuki drz engines left over from was it the 404 things?,and put that in this gp 450 it would sell easier than with the left over BMW/kymco/husqvarna engine.
I maybe talking complete shite,but the Suzuki engine is/was a known quantity with pretty good reliability..
Bloody hell I might apply for consultancy job next week..right off to the job centre..:scooter:

When you put it that way it is hard to argue! No one ever asked for feed back and suggestions as CCM did. Kudos to them for that! I really like the bike and would love to try it. Not in a rush to buy one, can't justify it for now.... And it ticks all the box, mid engine size, low weight, fuel tank capacity, offering a real low seat option.... Hat off.
Not looking for a new bike for now but when it come to replace my current bike.... And if I try it and fall in love... who know :)

The manufacturers have pee'd in this paddling pool far too often. Their under specced, untested, competition orientated products tumble onto the market and after the hype has died down we see their customers trying to fix the mess. CCM have history in this and are using a race motor with its own history. They need to do something. I understand this will be tough for a small company and if they think someone will pay them to do it that's great, give the bloke who does it the MD's mobile number and link to his blog from the company website.

If they aren't serious and want to sell to the Starbucks crowd I can understand that. There is less hassle and more profit. I will say though that the Charlie's follow the interesting rides. Get Ted or Maria or various others here about on one and others follow.

Tough decisions.

Andy

I like the bit ....customers trying to fix the mess...a very good description..much like some of the modern motor cars when they've gone tits up..

Microsoft has been selling operating systems with bugs in them for years, leaving their customers with glitchy computers that send error reports back to base after every crash. Despite this they are still hold the number one position for OS providers on computers.

What does this say about the end user? The general population will continue to buy certain products because they are classed as market leaders. Regardless of the fact that there are far better and more adept alternatives on the market, most consumers will just follow like sheep because that is what they are told is "best".

Possibly why there's lots of little orange sheep roaring around the woods at any enduro event in uk currently..?

Saw this posted by MCN on their youtube channel today.

CCM GP450 Adventure takes on rivals | Interviews | Motorcyclenews.com

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIv4tJUddiQ

Good to see MCN riding dirt bikes! Now they just need to get more writers who actually ride dirt bikes. Also very good to see them talk about doing RTW on lightweight ADV bikes vs. $25,000 usd BMW R1200R GSA.

Of course they liked the CCM ... but they did let slip that it's done on the highway at 50 mph. doh Solution? Gearing. But they left out a lot of practical day to day stuff for travel. Going RTW is not a Moto Cross race.

I'm surprised they 90% ignored the little Honda. In many parts of the world the Honda would be my choice over either of the other two. The CCM will be great when crossing Dunes, rocky tracks and tricky mountain trails.
But realistically, that sort of riding is a small percentage of the terrain over all on a long-ish RTW or continent crossing ride.

In Asia, I'm sure the Honda would be the winner... plus you can buy a NEW one in Thailand where Honda have a factory! In EU or N.America, I'd take the Yamaha Tenere'. If doing Mongolia then the CCM is the winner ... as long as you hire a Jeep to carry your camping gear and all your crap ... cause by the look of the CCM ... it may not be the best Pack Mule type bike. Dunno? :confused1:

The CCM would be a great week end or week long local ADV travel bike. I'd love to take one out to our Mojave or Black Rock Desert. The 450 is the perfect bike for that sort of terrain. But for the long road on a fully loaded bike, crossing many borders and doing thousands of miles of mundane highway ... the CCM would not be my first choice. beer

Just make sure you take a friend on something reliable to tow the ccm home when it let's you down! Been there done that would not risk it again

I believed all the hype first time around, should have got myself an XR

Strangely I went from an XR to a CCM to get something more reliable!

The difference in what I take for a week long trip or 6 months is minimal, the planning is different I grant you but as for carrying that much extra...no. Ask anyone who travels by foot and they'll tell you that if you take a big 100+l bag you'll fill the 100+l bag, if you take a 60l you'll take what you need, the CCM might not be as comfy on the longer stretches as a beemer or the big katy's, but if you're used to traveling light then I see no reason why it wouldn't be suitable.

No question, those with experience and expertise at traveling light, the CCM will not present packing problems. (we don't know what OTHER problems it may present ... yet! :innocent: )

With bags like Giant Loop systems and similar, it can work. Or ... if like me ... one does not carry camping/cooking equip. then the load is lightened.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-D...a918816a_o.jpg
Sometimes even the experts pack too heavy ... :innocent:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-y...13_uX2cw-M.jpg
Problem is ... most Motoqueros DO NOT travel light. Many over load and over pack. Many carry camping gear they almost never use. So if one is truly adept at traveling light ... then I could see the CCM working out well ... all other unknowns set aside for the moment.

I do hope we see some brave Pioneers get out there on the CCM and really put it to the test. But for the poor masses of punters who cannot afford a $12,000 USD bike, I see more small cc Chinese enduros and Honda CRF250L's in their future.

My old DR650 is long ago paid for and if it blows, I'll unbolt the Ohlins shock and walk away. I'll buy another. I've got my money's worth ten fold already.
I have a race bike ... would never use it for travel. jeiger

Having worked for a magazine I can confirm this as being absolutely true. The magazine ran tried and tested features that had manufacturers sending in products left right and centre. None of the products were tried. They were photographed, then reviews made up. The owner of the magazine then sold them on ebay.

When working as a PR manager for a large animal feed brand I was regularly told to make up Q&A type stories, and even invent pets and create a story around them. The stuff was published in major national magazines.

I couldn't get out of that job soon enough, and I've never bought another magazine since.

Now ride reports backed by photos of journeys of people we known or have been involved in the forum here, or advrider forums, would be something else entirely.

Sorry to say ... not all those reporting on the forums are as pure as the driven snow. Many have purely commercial, self promotion as their main motivation and seek a lucrative future career as RTW Moto ADV Hero.

Ever notice how many get FREE GEAR? - Free Parts? - Free Service? ... and lo and behold ... that gear is JUST FANTASTIC! Anyone smell a RAT? :smartass:

Just a few recent examples (out of DOZENS):
Noah on the 690 KTM:
http://giantloopmoto.com/giant-loop-...acking-system/

Simon and Lisa Thomas ... under contract to BMW and Touratech
http://www.touratech-usa.com/Adventu...nd-Lisa-Thomas

In the old days things were a bit different. ADV riders were not so easily Co-opted by corporations! Ted Simon thanked his sponsors but never Pimped or Pandered for them. Austin Vince and Lois don't sugar coat comments either. Different world today for most, different values.

Who's Buying/Traveling on New CCM?
 

In an effort to steer this thread back on topic ...
I'm wondering if anyone has heard of any new owners out there planning, prepping or doing any longer range rides on the new CCM?

Any news at all? How are they doing?

Nope don't usually read reports by people given free gear. Most of the ones I read are just people out on a jolly somewhere. Pretty similar to my own reports.

As far as I remember, the only thing Noah haven't had problems with; is his GL ...

But yes many of the people who does high profile travel do get stuff from the vendors, and tend to say nice things about them - good on them, if I could do that I would be happy, as I would by spending 10 minutes at the keyboard earn a few hundred dollars.


Casper

However CCM should give the bike to someone to test :thumbup1:



C-M a bit of topic but i see you live in Norwich when i am in the UK i stay just down the road, do you know any green lane routes?

I need better offroad riding

If so PM me, cheers

I obviously don't move in the right circles (or I'm not pushy enough doh) as in 45yrs of travelling here and there no one has ever offered me anything that could even remotely be considered sponsorship (unless you count someone, years ago, offering me advice about what would happen if I didn't bring his daughter back in one bit :innocent:). I suppose I'm just jealous. :rolleyes2:

As far as I'm aware, no bikes have been delivered to customers yet, though there have been some loaners, see here.

Nice write up, thanks for the link. Bike sounds better than expected, especially it's on road ability and MPG. :D

The reported snatch-y-ness in low speed town riding does not bode well for slow, technical riding through rocks at a crawl, where delicate throttle control is important. But tester seemed to do fine on single track ... :confused1:

I'm surprised none have been delivered. The CCM has been out and around for quite a while now. (this thread was begun nearly one year ago!) I hope they've got financing to continue. Any word how many pre-orders they've received? I'll keep an eye on this thread and the one at adventure biker UK. Good stuff there. bier

Last week they were still talking about orders placed now being delivered in June.

I wonder whether the low-speed town riding is just an inherent attribute of enduro bikes. I'm booked in for a test ride on 15 March, so will post my thoughts.

I shouldn't worry about that - CCM are past masters at being gone today and here tomorrow. They've come back from the dead more times than Lazarus in charge of MFI (UK joke).

Right, I've followed CCM off-on for years. I know of two resurrections in the last 15 or so years. A local San Francisco, CA dealer once carried CCM (late 80's/early 90's? Not sure :confused1:)

Always liked the look of the bikes. Back then they used Suzuki motors, IIRC. The dealer could not sell enough of them ... they mostly sat. Also saw very early ones while visiting in UK.

I'm still hopeful Triumph will step up and buy CCM. Seems like a perfect fit?

Mine's one of the pre Suzuki ones, using a Rotax engine. I've had it for about 7-8yrs now and generally it's been ok but I bought it with my eyes open and a willingness to get my hands dirty. Typical CCM though - a mix of some great parts - WP suspension, Brembo brakes, Acerbis plastics etc together with some Disney level parts like the Dell Orto carb and airbox / filter and a total lack of fine tuning or setup before delivery. Definitely a bike where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts but you'll have to decide for yourself whether I'm being serious or ironic! :rofl:

I really hope CCM QC has stepped up a gear since they bolted my bike together but I remain to be convinced. They can obviously knock out well screwed together one offs for competition use but whether they can do it day in day out ... It all just reminds me of Lotus cars in the 60's where the concept of the cars was inspired but the execution left something to be desired. I'm still trying to iron out the faults in mine 45yrs later.

Oh shit. I'm a sellout now :rofl:

Its true. GL gave me bags to test for them. I beat the crap out of them in Siberia this summer, then sent them back this winter so my friends at GL could see where the weak points were. Not many people had 35,000 km mostly offroad this summer so it was great for both of us. Now, If I could only get a KTM to help me out with the bike, Dunlop as a tire sponsor and maybe Exon for fuel? bier

This is the world we live in. I have been approached by many companies and causes but I only work with the ones I like an believe in.

If CCM wants to hook me up with a bike, I'll gladly beat it into the ground and give you guys an honest answer about how it did.

Careful Noah - some people around here don't like when you start talking sensibly!

Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk

How did the test ride go? ?c?

Obviously for the Nero / Starbucks / Costa set! :innocent:

I think the Companero is overkill for Bolton and Manchester!

I found it here: http://www.adventurebikerider.com/fo...tart=50#319137



Casper

I finally got the ride the CCM GP450 a few days ago. To cut to the chase right away, I won't be ordering one, primarily because the delivery queue is now out to July and I would be without a bike for April-May-June, as my current UK bike (XT660Z Tenere) is being shipped to Spain next week to join the 690 Enduro. I will probably be taking up another 690 Enduro that has my name on it at the KTM Centre in Hemel—there are some advantages having the same bike in two places.

I rode my Tenere to and from the test ride site, and boy did the Tenere feel heavy and lardy on the way home!

The CCM gearing seemed quite low but without a rev counter I didn't have much idea what the engine was up to. Riding with ear plugs probably didn't help here. At one point I got up to an indicated 73mph but the engine didn't feel particularly stressed. A wider set of gear ratios (or a six-speed box) would make more relaxed cruising. The power band seemed quite wide and without an obvious stronger section, so acceleration was steady. Performance wise the bike was never going to be a patch on my 690 Enduro, but I reckon it would show a clean set of heels to the Tenere.

The bike seemed both lighter and smaller than my 690 Enduro. There's effectively four seat heights, the bike is available in a substantially lowered version with standard seat or high (much thicker) seat. Then the standard height bike is available with the two seats. I booked the test ride on the second highest option—standard height bike, standard seat—but in fact the high seat was fine for me (30-in inseam) and was about the same as the Tenere and maybe slightly lower than the 2012-onwards 690 Enduro. The wide range of seat heights make it an ideal choice for a male/female couple looking to standardise on the same bike for a long trip. See below for more on seat heights.

Wind protection from the standard non-adjustable screen was fine, though if I was buying I reckon I'd go for adjustable screen. The was some vibration at times through the bars but only because I was looking for it. The mirrors were perfectly clear. No vibration through the footpegs. Dashboard is basic and there's a big green light that I'm not sure what it does, but it could be annoying at night time.

Despite comments elsewhere on the flip-up 'suicide side stand', the stands on most of the test bikes were normal, apart from one that needed tightening up.

I did just 500m or so on short section of muddy lane. It was difficult to assess the bike given the non-knobbly tyres and no brush guards (bushes kept interfering). I would have liked to have seen what the bike would do riding fully laden—panniers, roll bag, full fuel—on steep and rocky sections. I would also have liked to see how the bike handles when you start to use the long travel suspension on big bumps and dips, but we weren't about to do that bumbling along a very short muddy lane with mud-clogged tyres.

The pannier rails will take a variety of hard pannier solutions, Metal Mule, Zega, etc. Given the amount of tools and gear you need on a long tour I thought the soft luggage wasn't large enough, especially the top bag. There didn't seem much space on the CCM for a tank bag (I use the Enduristan Sandstormone on the 690 Enduro.)

There are no CCM dealers at the moment, all sales are via the factory, so servicing would be carried out either by returning to Bolton or by having a mechanic come to you. Clearly this needs to be sorted but until production starts the factory doesn't have the bikes to allocate to a dealer. Alice Flook (CCM Marketing Manager) reckons production will start at the end of March, with 20 bikes being produced each month. Doing the math implies there's 60 orders and deposits in the system. Alice says CCM has accepted quite a number of KTM 690 Enduros in part exchange and it's becoming a bit of a joke at the factory.

More on seat heights... Seat height is normally measured with no weight on the suspension which is why you tend to take a dirt bike off the stand first before getting on (otherwise it settles down and you can't get the sweep to get the stand up).

The other variable on the seat height is the curve that your legs need to take to reach the ground, if it's a wide seat it appears to be higher. And if you have a lot of flesh on your inner thighs (i.e. fat bastard) you won't reach down as easy as a skinner rider with the same inseam. I found my 'longer legs' to be one brilliant side effect when I lost over 30kg!

The reason I stressed the seat heights was I wondered when I saw the measurements whether even the standard height/standard seat (890mm) would be low enough for me (5'8"). In fact I could totally flat foot on the standard setup which is something I don't normally do on these types of bikes. I was quite happy on the higher seat (960mm).

I believe the difference between the standard and lowered CCM is about 100mm (4 inches) which is quite a drop. It's a comprehensive change involving a different rear linkage, shorter rear spring and shorter forks. But it's too low for riders of around 5'5", so maybe there's a possibility of a half-way measure involving just a different rear linkage?

Sorry this isn't a more comprehensive write-up but there's a limit to what you can write about a 30 minute ride, mainly on country B roads. If there had been the possibility of getting a bike delivered in May or June I might have spent more time evaluating it. If I was buying one I would want a rev counter fitted, plus adjustable screen, centre stand, and pannier rails.

Generally though I have a good feel about the bike and the company and hope they do well.

.

Does anyone know if anyone have run any of the bikes to full service interval ?

I am very interested in seeing how the wear is on the engines and the longevity.


Casper

These are still prototypes, some parts (seats, mudguard stays) are not finalised. So the bikes are not yet in production and no customer deliveries have been made.

CCM have obviously been doing long term testing of their own, but I'd guess you'll have to wait a year or two before a customer strips down an engine.

I rode a CCM 404 from the UK to South Africa during 2007/2008. I knew (know!) very little about bikes mechanically, but on paper it seemed like exactly what I was looking for. More details below if you want a nosey:

Moto-cross Africa: Bikes

I picked the bike up for £2k with about 500 miles on the clock. The bike worked fine for me, minor issues as you would expect from any bike on a 10,000+ mile trip through Africa, but nothing too major.

I haven't really followed CCM as a business (but Peter Henshaw's 'Rolling Thunder' book is worth looking up if you're interested).

However, I really like the fact that CCM have chosen this specialist niche and it would be great if they can gain some traction in the adventure/overlanding market, particularly in the UK. It must be difficult being a small manufacturer with limited resources. In one of the videos someone posted above, CCM's marketing manager commented that they observed that many adventure bikes were very large/heavy, so they've gone for the smaller/lighter market. Makes a lot of sense to me, but I appreciate some of that is personal preference. And personal preference is exactly why there will never be a 'perfect' adventure bike!

At £8k the 450 seems fairly pricey but that's fine; in a few years' time the second hand market should be flowing so that overlanders who can't/don't want to spend that sort of money will be able to pick one up.

In the meantime, if you budget is below £8k and you're interested in a CCM as an overlander, try a 404! Key points I would flag are:
i) the seats are narrow - not too much of an issue as long as you solve it (ie I used an Airhawk cushion but I'm sure you can modify/replace the seat); and
ii) I couldn't find a larger tank to fit the bike, so I went with 11.5 litre tank. Again, not too much of an issue as that range (200km) was fine 98% of the time. In my opinion people often go over-the-top with fuel/tanks; there is almost always somewhere/someone willing to sell you fuel. That said, I did stick a 5l Acerbis auxiliary tank on the front before I left for peace of mind.

Chris

The CCM 404 use's a DRZ400E engine, best of just getting a DRZ400 than a CCM 404 as more aftermarket parts for a DRZ :thumbup1:

I was interested in knowing if they have stress tested the engine to see if it keeps up with the service interval after they de-tuned it. They don't need a whole bike for that, just a test rig, a computer, and a huge fuel tank.

Adventure Bike Rider - UK - CCM review?
 

We get UK mags very late in the USA, but I just spied Adventure Bike Rider (UK) mag in Barnes & Noble yesterday. They have a review of the new CCM ... I just glanced at the mag .. no time to read it.

Anyone read it ...? Comments? ?c?

That issue has probably been out in UK for a month or more.

I'll get back there in a day or two and read the review. Will notify.

EDIT / UPDATE The mag was NOT Adventure Bike Rider .... it was BIKE, UK. The article is by Chippy Wood, staff photog. The review gives the bike a 10 for 10, 100% thumps up. Chippy is rare among UK moto journos as he's a long time dirt/enduro rider/competitor. A short but worthwhile read. I think Chippy owns a KTM for his own bike ... but gets to ride all kinds of off road bikes.

Wesley, the reason I posted is so that if someone is interested in taking a less expensive and/or more tested CCM than the 450, they know there are options. It wouldn't be 'wrong' if someone chose to use a CCM rather than a Suzuki.

Chris

I'm with you Mezo, what a crap road test, more like an Ad for the Manchester bike show. It would be nice to see how it feels off road and loaded down with luggage. It's a bit expensive though at £8k!

Honda NX400 Falcons "single cylinder"
 

NX400s work for us. Mine was manufactured in 2001 in Brazil, (50,000 + K) no problem sourcing any needed parts - if you ever need any. Rosa del desierto also rides and NX400 manufactured in 2009 in Brazil.

Designed for low octane fuel, and I reduced the size of the carb jet - rosa did not have to, for more power above 4,000 meters. Apparently, later model NX400 have fixed the altitude glitch.

We left Buenos Aires more than two months ago, now in Arequipa, Peru destined for Bogota and a flight to Panama and then a ride through Central America and Mexico to our ranch on Route 66 , Flagstaff, Arizona.

And, in a couple of months, we will ride back to Buenos Aires.

This is our second trans South America ride. see Puno to Arequipa thread
South American region for another foto of our NX400s....

Questions welcome

xfiltrate and rosa del desierto

The NX appears to be a great travel bike ... but surly can't be compared to the CCM regards off road ability? Do you have any close up pics of the bike with a full load?

I owned a legalized XR400R in 1999. I expect your NX400 is somewhat similar to the no longer produced XR400R. US off road version had better suspension than the Brazilian bike ... and the XR had more ground clearance as it was a true off road race bike, never designed to go ON road. More HP too. It was kick start only (a drag) but quite light weight for it's time.

But still ... as a travel bike ... I might pick your NX400 over the CCM ... and for more reasons than price. (CCM is around $12,000 usd). The NX400 Falcon is a bit overpriced, mostly due to import duties ... but I imagine still far less than a CCM?

What did you pay for your NX in USD?

I'm guessing your NX is designed to carry a pillion? So it's subframe is probably strong, good for luggage. It's a road based bike so no doubt the mildly tuned 400 motor will go 50K mi. before a rebuild and longer service intervals than CCM. All things good in a travel bike, IMHO :thumbup1:

Much as I'd love to ride the CCM off road, for most, RTW travel is not about riding a full on enduro race course every day. But the one day you DO have a tough route, the CCM is going to be the winner ... by a country mile. (the NX .. and others will have to hire a truck!)

But for roughly 80% of travel, a road bike that can handle "medium" off road may be the better (and less expensive) choice. If the CCM could go 50,000 miles before a total rebuild, then I'd give it mucho respect, but I doubt that's the case.

BMW had Kymco (Taiwan) build a full on, world class race motor, specifically to compete (and WIN) in World Enduro. They then paid world champion David Knight millions to WIN. He didn't. He quit the team and gave up millions as a result. He could not ride the bike. But others did, and did fairly well, but never close to a world championship.

Nonetheless, in a year or two BMW pulled out completely out of World Enduro ... a real shame. But that's part of them going in a Green direction. I respect BMW's decision but as an old motorhead was saddened by BMW's early surrender.

But make no mistake ... the CCM Kymco motor is a Race Motor. Not a mild RTW travel motor. Look up the history to confirm it's origins. bier

Better late than never fully loaded NX400 Falcon
 

Mollydog, thank you for your interesting post. We have been on the road from Buenos Aires for more than 2 months now and yesterday visited Chan Chan preInca palaces near Trujillo, Peru. For anyone riding this way there is a very heavy police/military presence in the province of Anca - just before Trujillo, Peru.

We were stopped six times and asked for papers the first three times then, I guess our presence was radioed ahead and we were just waved through. The operation was to arrest a gang of murder for hire boys who have been on a killing spree. Sometimes killing for as little as $5 US. Drug related?

Anyway the police - mostly swat , treated us with upmost respect and seemed a little shocked to discover we were foreign independent travelers - there are many foreign group tours.... but we have encountered only a few independent travelers with their own wheels....

Xfiltrate paid $5,000 dollars for his zero K NX400 in Buenos Aires many, many years ago, did I say many? I paid $7,000 dollars U S for mine in 2009.

The frame of the NX400 is very sturdy and supports our gear well. we carry the usual - tent, sleeping bags, hammocks, shirts, pants, etc... sandals, water filter, spare tubes, tools, spare containers for gas - tank is 15 liters and we can go 300 K depending on roads, altitude, speeds etc.... a book or two, my jewelry making tools and colored beads and a stout stick to beat off rabid dogs plus X carries his favorite machete and a collapsable stool.

We also carry video equipment, a digital still camera plus I pad and Laptop. You can see videos of this ride at our web site posted below...just clik on blog del viaje panamericano... We are posting about 1 video a week....
You might enjoy seeing the shaman we stayed with for 4 days near Cochabamba, Bolivia...
We only carry extra fuel if there are earthquakes, volcanos etc that might prevent gas delivery to gas stations -

rosa del desierto

Hi Guys n Gals,

I just saw a pair of the new CCM's riding out of Bolton, so I'm guessing it's another couple of riders out on a test.

They do look rather smart, I must admit.

Regards

Reggie

I emailed CCM about when the 450 is coming here, for any Canadians interested I got this back:

"Thank you for you interest in the CCM GP 450.
We are currently completing the Canadian homologation and are hoping to have all testing completed by the end of this month. Once we have our paperwork submitted to Transport Canada and Environment Canada we should be receiving bikes about 4-6 weeks later"

So its looking like June sometime before they will be in Canada, maybe early July by the time they are assembled and ready to go.

Id like to like this bike, but the fairly highly strung engine and aluminum frame - even though its an ingenious design, the way it has lots of interface surface area at the joins of the separate pieces and its bolted together looks substantial, but it would put me off taking it into remote areas where the frame cant be fixed with a generator and a stick welder commonly found on the back of a Ural - maybe the frame is so well made it will never break, time will tell.

Video shared by CCM today - I think this is a customer's home video.

'LOL' at 6:30 river crossing :lol2:

ccm gp450 portugal trails - YouTube

Yes, that's Minkyhead from AdventureBikeRider.

I understand the TUV homologation in Germany has held things up for UK deliveries and production isn't due to start until July. But if Canadian homologation is through maybe they could start to build for that market?

CCM has a stand at the UK HUBB event later this month, so will be asking some questions then.

Just for my understanding; why would TüV stop the production, if they would have it certified in the UK then it would be certified in the rest of EC automatically, or is my understanding wrong.

Ok without TüV, the Germans might not want to touch it, but it would be approved for sale.

Ticks most of the boxes for me except for the fact that i need about 70bhp. :-(

Hi there,

it is my understanding that new vehicles made in the UK, need to be ECWVTA tested and the process takes up to 6 months, where as the TUV testing is accepted to the same standard across Europe as the ECWVTA test but has a lead time of less than 2 months, therefore the TUV is a way more cost effective option that the alternative.

Regards

Reggie

Production start
 

Some might know it already, but production now finally starts at october 20!

For Sweden there is also an agreement with a first dealer confirmed, NCCR (Northern Custom, Classic and Race AB) in Delsbo will sell and service the CCM450.

As I have written in other forums, the first bike is ordered and will be delivered in time for the Stockholm Motorcycle Show (MC Mässan) in Januari 2015. I will be presenting the bike there, but depending on the weather most likely not have chance to do any miles on it. It will have some extras like the complete soft luggage installed.

I am willing to take the risk to try an unproven product, but after my recent experiences with KTM it can't get any worse (six weeks in the repair shop for engine repair). I am very optimistic that the CCM 450 will fit my needs for a light adventure motorcycle and will post my experiences in the coming months!

Hey Nordicbiker,

I'll be looking forward to reading your reports on how you get on with the CCM.

I live less than three miles away from the factory and I'm forever seeing them being tested in the local area but life over the last 13 months hasn't allowed me to visit them, as I was primary carer for my elderly mum. Sadly she passed away just over a month ago, so I'll have more time to think about biking etc and one of the things at the top of the list is to go to visit Alice and the crew at CCM.

Regards

Reggie

Reggie, Sorry to hear about your loss. Where exactly are CCM based in Bolton. I live South Bolton, but not seen any bikes out and about. Are they anywhere near Dave's Aquarium?

I don't understand completely major makers like honda, yamaha or bmw why they abandoned that medium market for some crazy ideas like 1200cc, 260 kg wannabe adventure bikes which nobody want to buy. They prefer sell one big bike a year instead of 25 smaller ones???


p.s.
I don't want to test some new brand nobody heard of, I just want my adventure bike from honda or yamaha.

You might not want to buy a "1200cc, 260 kg wannabe adventure bike", but plenty do. Look at the sales stats of the BMW R1200GS.

Bikes like the BMW G650X (Challenge/Country/Moto) were made for a year or 2, before being discontinued.

Plenty of buyers for GIANT behemoths, BMW GS leading the way with KTM 1190 close behind. Also, know big bikes provide largest profit margins. Do most owners ever really go anywhere off road? Mostly NOT and that's fine.

Abandon? :nono: Look at the whole market, not just UK. The Japanese have been nibbling round the edges of this niche for quite a few years, but have mostly left the BIG ADV bike niche to BMW, KTM. Only Suzuki had a "semi adv" bike in the Vstrom starting in 2002. (DL1000 and DL650) (also, was never intended as a ADV bike at all ... I attended the original Product launch)

Yamaha has jumped in now with the Tenere' 1200 (in 2012). Honda are screwing around but nothing serious yet, IMHO.

Among small Adventure bikes the Japanese are quite active with more to come. Consider the WR250R & CRF250L ... I don't think you can buy either one in the UK? You do get the XT250, KLX250S? None made to order ADV bikes but easily converted and well suited.

The Suzuki DRZ400S has been around since 2000, never designed to be a ADV Travel bike. Here owners stepped up and improvised. Old design now but a good one, makes a fair travel bike that is affordable and practical. Hundreds gone walkabout on this bike. Certainly more to come in this CC class from the Japanese ... be patient.

The 650cc class has also been well represented by the Japanese. Yes, OLD designs not upgraded in years ... but ALL good, affordable bikes. None high tech race bikes, rather practical, reliable very basic dual sports with potential to be a travel bike. (thousands done RTW on DR, KLR, XR-L, XT) 10 times more than KTM or BMW singles.

Two of the big four offerings not for sale in the UK. I know XT's are sold in UK and perhaps the XR650L Honda still is? :confused1: In the US we get the 650's save the Yamaha XT's. (we get Tenere' 1200, but no 660/600 XT's since '95)

The USA and other parts of the world still can buy Suzuki DR650 and Kawasaki KLR650. Brand new. Old nails to be sure, but cheap, cheerful, strong and practical. Never would match a CCM in a race but I'd bet would out pace the CCM going RTW in terms of reliability, maintenance and parts availability, in a world where roads of some sort are nearly everywhere.

The Japanese could jump into this market anytime and likely dominate it. But they won't, has to with world markets, value of competition and a very conservative view. (discussion for another topic)
What! You mean you don't want to be a Beta tester and pay £8500 for the privilege!?? ?c? :smartass:

I get your point but fact is CCM are not new. They go back over 10 years, we even had them for sale here in the USA with Suzuki and other power plants over the years. I thought they looked nice but I never rode one. In the UK they got highly "mixed" reviews (read: not so good) overall. But have hung in there and now are back. I say good luck to them!

This new CCM uses a well proven BMW (made by Kymco in Taiwan) motor,
all new chassis design with some "innovative" elements. Components are good to excellent. While not 100% proven on the road going RTW, tests posted here and elsewhere remain quite hopeful.
bier

Now it's official: CCM issued a press release yesterday and they mention it also on their homepage. There is now an officially appointed official dealer for the CCM 450 in Sweden, with first deliveries to be expected in January! However I feel a bit discriminated: the UK gets the first bikes already in November. But well, at the other hand: that gives CCM a chance to sort out any production problems! :clap:

Hi Skyliner,

CCM are based at
Unit 5
Jubilee Works
Vale Street
Bolton
BL2 6QF

Which is off Bury Road.

Regards

Reggie