Finally, a single cylinder adventure bike
 

Surprised this hasnt been mentioned before.

Well its been a long time between drinks for single cylinder adventure bikes off the shelf ... since KTM retired the 640 Adventure in 2007 its just been the very heavy Tenere.

CCM is beginning production of a BMW powered 450cc adventure bike that weighs between 120 and 130 kgs dry !

17 litre fuel tank
40 hp from a detuned 450cc BMW FI engine
5000 mile (8000 km) service intervals
90 mph (150 km/h) top speed
250 mile (400 km) range
high quality dutch made suspension
regular height, or enduro height
options for larger tanks


See:
CCM’s new adventure bike - | Motorbike reviews | Latest Bike Videos | MCN
CCM Motorcycles launches new CCM GP 450 Adventure Bike

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/upload...-adventure.jpg

Ticks the boxes for me.
£7995.00. Wondering how this compares to other Motorcycles at the same price point in the Uk?

Looks good to me. And yes, since it was announced in February, very surprising no one has mentioned it till now...

MCN put me off "....intended as an entry level adventure bike before riders move up to the likes of BMW’s R1200GS". Or maybe they are just clueless idiots!

Looks good to me.

Andy

I'll be waiting for the 650cc version (I'm a big bloke).

But one thing which put me seriously off is: "Suspension: electronically adjustable to account for a pillion or extra loads" .... too much electronics.

Also the fuel cap is just where one would put the stuffbag/drybag.

Price wise it would be comparable to a 690R...

Casper

Even earlier ... it was at the UK's biggest bike show in January

CCM 450 Adventure – Rally Raid BLOG

Yeah thats a comment written by someone who obviously hasnt done any significant adventure riding

There were also discussions at CCM 450 Adventure and CCM 450 Adventure

In my opinion it's overpriced and I wouldn't touch CCM as a brand with somebody else's bargepole, let alone my own.

To be fair Chris, I think most manufacturers (including CCM - your local chaps!) are barely making ends meet these days. I personally think they are all basically selling motorcycles too cheap. I wish they were making good money so we would have a lot more choice in models. But I believe most of them are really struggling at present.

Instead they sell bikes below the cost of producing, marketing and distributing them, and then try and make the money back with expensive add-ons and spare parts.

I sure wouldnt want to own shares in a motorcycle manufacturer these days. I am just grateful that someone is coming up with something different in the area of adventure motorcycles.

I guess in the next 5 years or so we are going to be flooded with a lot of cheaper Indian and Chinese motorcycles. The worlds largest motorcycle manufacturer, Hero, has just set up a subsidiary in Europe to distribute its Indian built bikes. Bajaj, Loncin, Kymco ... all coming soon.

When that happens the smaller European manufacturers are really going to have to offer something different and unique or they will go to the wall. And I fear for the future of smaller lighter adventure motorcycles in this future scenario ! :eek3::confused1:

The learner laws may help. When you can't own a 650 until you've taken part 11 of the test and passed your 50th birthday, there will be plenty of choice in 400's!

Europe and Japan are also much more diverse in the mix of bike types than say the US was.

Andy

My problem with this particular CCM is 2-fold: The not exactly glorious record the G450X donor engine had in a race bike ridden by David Knight and the history of lack of sales success of previous CCM offerings like the 404 and 604. CCM went bust in 2004 in the "good old days" of m/c sales.

The 404 was meant to be an improved DRZ sharing the same engine. The DRZ sold by the shedload, the 404 didn't. The 604 had an annoying habit of rivets holding the airbox in place sheering off and heading through the carburettor into the engine with catastrophic consequences.

IMHO, CCM uses the same engineering principles that British Leyland used to have.

As for the price of m/cs, I live in the past. :innocent: I remember a new Af Twin costing gbp6500. Where are my slippers? :confused1: It's possible to pick up good used adventure bikes for about gpb2500 or 3000. I would never consider buying a new 450 cc bike for 8 grand, especially considering it's dubious parentage.

So I'm guessing we're not going to see you on a CCM any time soon then? :rofl:

I don't want to be an apologist for CCM - god knows their bikes have their share of faults, but writing the whole company off like that is a little unfair. Sure, they're not Honda or Yamaha - or even KTM come to that, they're a small, back street, bike company buying in the bits they can't make. The comparison, IMHO also, isn't with Red Robbo's British Leyland but closer to Colin Chapman's Lotus (in the early days anyway) - a company with very dubious finances that makes different, slightly overpriced bikes for a niche market and with their product range determined more by what they can get hold of rather than what they'd like to make.

Like Lotus they can be rough around the edges so they're not going to appeal to everyone - I bought my 604 as the basis of an overlanding bike rather than the finished article and seven years on I don't regret the decision. It's been as reliable and dependable as any bike I've ever owned. It has its niggles - the DellOrto carb is really only good as landfill, but the airbox rivets is a new one on me. I've just had a quick look in mine and can't see any - the airbox is a one piece moulding. Anything like that would still have to get through the airfilter.

I doubt that CCM will turn their finances around with the 450 - it's just too expensive (for me anyway), but like the 604 when I bought it, the spec looks interesting. Maybe if a few city bankers buy them initially I'll be able to take advantage of the fall off a cliff depreciation in a couple of years time. That's how I bought my Elan.

I don't know the G450X motor but if the GP450 comes like that out of the crate (maybe less the Mules?) there's not much more you need to buy, is there (other than a used DRZ ready to go for half the price).

I am wondering if a 450 is in fact the ideal size for mono cylinder overland bike in terms of real world power, economy and weight. A typical 650 can get heavy in my experience and the Jap 250 I'm currently on can be a bit breathless on fast, busy roads but great on the dirt. A 400-450 version of my 250 - sort of modern XR400 - would be just right.

Good luck to CCM, I say. Nearly bought one in the late 70s but came to my senses. Years later had a 604 on one of my desert tours. Didn't miss a beat iirc compared to minor probs on KTMs, tho I do recall the airbox intake copped a lot of sand off the back wheel.

Ch

Well with EFI, 450 cc can a decent amount of power in a light bike. I its original guise, the BMW 450 produced closer to 52 hp, but was a racing engine, with titanium valves and very short service intervals. I believe CCM have detuned it to 40 hp (about the same as a Tenere which I think is 43?) but the bike is a good 50-60kgs lighter than a Tenere.

I think the weight of 650cc engines and bikes is an issue manufacturers havent bothered to address ... as they dont see it as important. Which is unfortunate for people who do see it as important.

I weighed my 650cc Rotax donk a few years back and it was right on 50 kgs. Looking at the Yamaha equivalent, which looks a lot heavier and bulkier, I wouldnt be surprised if it was 60 kgs - which is the weight of a KTM 990 V-Twin engine. KTM have got its 690 engine down to about 39 kgs. Which makes me think if Rotax or Yamaha actually put some effort into making their 650 cc singles lighter, they too could bring them down to the 40 kg mark.

The latest KTM singles up to 500 cc are down to around 29 kgs. I am guessing my 60 hp Husaberg 570 engine is somewhere around 32 kgs. And I would think the BMW 450 engine is also around 30-32 kgs.

While Yamaha will spend a lot of time, effort and money making their 450cc engines as light as they can while maintaining durability, there seems to be zero interest on their behalf to make their 650 cc engine lighter (there's got to be 20 kgs they could trim off it with little effect on durability) or to make the actual bike lighter (probably another 20 kgs they could trim off there). For some reason, manufacturers see 650 cc bikes as single cylinder tanks with no motivation to optimise weight. Whereas the 450cc equivalents offer lean, weight optimised engines and bikes.

A look at whats possible in weight reduction can be seen in the swedish engineered Highland 950cc V-twin (before the tragic plane crash)... 130 hp from just 44 kg engine ... now in a streetbike that weighs just 144 kgs. http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/fi...g/viewall.html

The 50 kg 650cc rotax in my XC is over 20 years old in design. The only changes in that time have been to the head. Fine tune cams, combustion chamber, fuel injection etc. They never even got around to adding a 6th gear. A bit of focussed redesign work could cut 10-12 kgs off the engine and gearbox and add an additional gear.

No-one has bothered with it, cause 650cc engines just dont need to be sexy apparently. Market research seems to tell them that 650 buyers arent picky. KTM at least has put come effort into its current 650 - 690cc engine ... probably because the engine is also used in its sporty duke. Problem is the engine has the Dukes narrow, street racer gearbox.

Hopefully they've done something with the clutch on the piece of crap...going back to 2010 there was quite a large touratech/BMW enterage at dawn till dusk event in Wales I seem to remember a few g450s on their side having clutch replacement and I passed at least two stuck half way up climbs not going forwards very well..
I think colebatches suggestion of a reduced weight say yamaha 660 is bang on what's needed..the more robust motor in that chassis package would make more sense than the slightly detuned,titanium valve,short stroke,high rpm,short crank life 450 engine..
One day when I get time I may just have create a contraption out of bits to fit the requirements..it would probably go like 34l tenere with ktm 690 motor in it or 660 yam motor..the big tank,comfy seat,off road ability of the old yamaha with a more modern motor that's got slightly longer legs..?..anyone wanna place an order?:mchappy:

They sent me a pdf brochure which I've put on my website with a couple of snapshots.

Ch



CCM GP450 Adventure Bike brochure | Adventure Motorcycling Handbook

Chinese Cheese Machine..........no thanks! Overpriced, unproven and a poor pedigree

KTM or not, I'll stick to my 690!

I very nearly bought a CCM 644 years ago, I think that the idea is good, as Colebatch says, the 450 engines have come a long way and FI is nothing to be scared of these days, but if im not mistaken this bike has an aluminium frame, great for racing, but not IMO any good for loading up with gear and rattling it over endless corrogations/washboard in remote areas.

I remember early Lotus vehicles too, components were made to be super lightweight and just strong enough to last a few years, or to the end of a race....most of the time they didnt even make it that far.

Dont get me wrong, I would love to see CCM doing well and time will tell if they have a good product, but I wont be lining up to buy the first bikes off the production line....

There are definitely quite a few manufacturers engine designs out there that could do with overhauling/lightening, for example lots DR650 owners in North America are fitting their bikes with 790 kits with FI systems (Electrons), modified heads, cranks, HC pistons, RMZ 450 front ends etc etc....and so many old design 650 thumpers need a 6th gear, its time the manufacturers woke up and adapted to the requirements of their customers

I'm actually liking the look of that CCM a lot!
However, at 8 thousand - imho no point at all bying a brand new bike for the purpose of thrashing it offroad at, occasionally dropping, scratching, cracking plastics etc...

Guess it's a matter of someone being brave and just taking it out in the wild for the first time, thoroughly testing in the REAL world. (Hint - remember Colebatch and his X-challenge. How many of us even heard of that bike beforehand? I for sure didn't.)
Until that - all is only guesswork.

The idea, however, of a factory - ready, or at least very nearly ready adventure bike, is great! So far, seems like only the Tenere 660 fits that bill, in my opinion....

For the life of me, I can't understand why KTM haven't produced a replacement for the 640 adventure. You know a proper touring bike with fuel range and a decent sub frame for carrying loads and a comfortabke seat.
Not like the 690, which is totally useless as far as I am concerned.

Basically I want the 690 motor in the 640 chassis.

That CCM looks the part and if they ever produce a 600-700cc single I am sure they would sell every one they could make.

The honest answer to that, is they didnt believe it would sell. They only sold 300 640 Adventures in the final year they had them on the market 2007 ... globally. 300 bikes a year in a global market isnt enough to justify designing, testing, building a new bike. KTM's strategy before the crisis was to be Europes biggest bike builder ... to outmanufacture BMW, who build over 100,000 bikes a year. Designing a new bike that might sell 500 bikes a year, if you are lucky, globally, is not really going to help that strategy much. It just was never a priority.

The other manufacturers obviously agree ... none of the other major manufacturers has built a single cylinder dedicated adventure bike in the last 20 years with the exception of Yamaha's reborn Tenere.

I am sure KTM would have gotten round to it, but then the crisis him them badly, strategy changed to survival, R&D spending was slashed, racing sponsorship budgets were slashed, 300 people were let go from the factory, and developing a 690 Adventure would not have been on the list of key vital projects designed to keep the company afloat - whereas FI for the enduro bikes, and an 1190 Adventure to take on BMW were key survival projects.

I imagine now they have a bit more financial breathing room (KTM's share price is almost back up to where it was in 2008 - after falling 75-80% in 2009), developing a adventure bike based on the 690 is probably something they will be looking at again - whether they commit the funding to it is another story. But at least they can look at it now.

The obvious question, that no one seems to have asked yet. Walter, would you take one with you next time you head out into the wilds?

Obviously basing your bike choice on press releases and spec sheets is a little foolish, but is it at least on your "must have a good look and a long test ride" list? And if not, why not?

Absolutely ... I would love to have a look at it and take it for a long test ride. A 130 kg adventure bike will be able to reach and stimulate places other adventure bikes cant. The big question is how this particular bike is in reality vs theory. I certainly have my preferences, and I still feel a 650 single is a bit more all purpose and flexible than a 450. I would love to see Rotax design and build a new 650 cc single that had a wide six speed box, and weighed under 40 kgs, but designing and tooling a factory for a new engine isnt cheap, and rejigging an existing light 450 single may work well. I would want to see what, if anything they have done to the gearbox. A wide ratio box is a must for me on an adventure bike (you need to be able to cruise on motorways as well as crawl at walking pace), and a wide 6 is better than a wide 5. In my mind, a light 60 hp 650cc bike with a very wide ratio 6 speed box truly can do it all. But to date, we dont have that engine / gearbox combo from anyone. Let alone in a light bike.

The most interesting aspect for me, is if this bike works, and CCM can sell as many as they want, then it forces proper manufacturers with real resources to throw at it - like KTM / Husqvarna - to look at lightweight adventure bikes. Its that side of things that has me hoping this bike is a success for CCM.

I assume that the 130kg weight mentioned is a dry weight?

Have BMW increased the oil capacity from when the engine was fitted to the G450X?

I'm surprised that CCM have not used the 6-speed Husqvarna version of this engine as fitted to the TE449 enduro bike.

In G450X trim, I think it only produced 52bhp when in the full power mode and when fitted with the race can. In basic trim it made 41bhp which was still plenty in a 120kg bike.

The GP450 is not for me but if you were looking to buy a new bike and then convert it the same spec as the GP450, you'd certainly spend a lot more than £8,000. You only have to see what it costs to convert a 690 to a similar spec. Even if you buy a used bike, with decent aftermarket tanks costing between £350 - £700, it doesn't take long for costs to spiral, especially if you're paying someone else to put it all together.

I wish CCM luck with this new venture and would like to see it in the flesh soon.

Yes, dry weight. External oil reservoir.

Interesting 'accessories' like a crate. Can't say i've seen their soft luggage before. Looks like welded poly. Like the water carrier as well.

Since my XC was written off earlier in the year I've had trouble getting a hardon for any other bike. I've looked at WR250R's and maybe an old Super Enduro, but nothing getting my heart pumping. I've been hoping Yamaha might release details of a WR450R, so seeing this I have to say I'm really keen. I've owned a CCM SM before and had absolutely no issue with, unlike my KTM's and Beemers, so the heritage doesn't put me off. And being in Australia I'm obviously going to have to pay through the roof for a new or used bike so this price seems fair to me. Where do I sign up?

Also....Hi Taco bier

Dave? Written off???

Hey Walter - long time no speak. Yeah she's gone I'm afraid. Repairs to the water pipes at my apartment block were less than successful. A contractor damaged the pipes flooding the garage with about 5 ft of water, writing off 25 cars, 6 bikes and believe it or not a couple of boats which were strapped to trailers.

The XC was written off due to was water damage to fuse box, ECU, starter system and ingress into most of the electrics. The chassis, engine, shocks, forks, wheels and all Erik's parts are fine. Will have to check it out down the line but I'm thinking I might be able to salvage some of the parts, maybe transplant the WP48's and the top part of the x-rack get back up to speed without having a massive outlay or needing to bolt on heaps of custom parts.

I spoke to CCM last night and they're still looking at September for the bike to come off the production line, but they still dont have any dealers lined up for the AU or US. Maybe I should just ride one back from Blighty :)

Dave, this should be of interest to you:

Xchallenge dived in lake. - ::. UKGSer.com .::

Won't your situation seem like a holiday now? :freezing: bier

Hell's yeah it would. The water didn't even get over the seat i think. But apparently BM don't think much of those bikes. :offtopic:?c?

He Dave, see if you could get them to ship it with that funky crate. I could really use it.

Yeah that bike took a hell of a dive! Like Taco said it didn't go quite that far under, it was just about up to the seat. My apartment is next to the beach and about 10 tonnes of sand got swept in with the water so it was salt water for about 6 hours. Australia has rules where if the repair company cant provide a lifetime guarantee on insurance repairs then it has to be written off and cant be re-registered, all the people I spoke to said they couldn't guarantee repairs on water ingress on the electric's so thats why its written off, I don't have too much say in the matter. Bit unfortunate as she still runs at moment, but I've got just about all my money back on the bike and the upgrades and I can still sell the bike to a wreckers or part it out and sell the mods too. Anyway, yeah totally off topic...

:funmeterno::D:thumbup1:bier

No more standing on the side of the road getting caught by bush fires mate. No need to stop dreaming about that WR290R though. Fairings get in the way here but I've got a few molds for ya if you really want one.

Hey Taco - Rumour has it the bags were only mock ups for the initial brochure - in no way related to any final product. :thumbup1:

So I emailed CCM today and got a response from Austin regarding the possibility of a 6-speed box. This was his repsonse:

'Hi David,

Thank you for your enquiry, the GP450 Adventure bike will come with a 5
speed box as standard but with an optional 6 speed box available.

We do not have an Australian Distributer as yet bit once we do then we
will be in touch, meanwhile we will keep you up to date with current
developments.

Regards
Austin'.

Personally I think that this is great news and and I'm almost amazed that a factory has listened to what some customers want, even at this late stage.

Outstanding result .... :clap::clap::clap::clap:

I'd like to think so and as much as I'd love to take all the credit I hardly think thats appropriate, but I've no complaints about being the bearer of good news. :D

Nice. hope they didn't get suzuki gears though. Interesting to see how the overcame the spacing issues.

Nothing ... apart from they dont make them anymore.

and that on some or even most they don't work out the faults. I used to think older is better, but that's like saying no to a new commy over a kingy. Engineering is a process of improvement.

I don't want to go back to 50 mpg and reliance on bits of brass and rubber with diagnosis by witchcraft, I want 90 mpg and something that tells me what's wrong via my smart phone. I want to know who stuffed up the wiring (it'll be me) and why. I won't pay some grease monkey whatever bribe he decides to impose each year before I'm allowed to pay the British Governments old bike tax, I want to just buy the bke and ride it.

Nothing wrong if you do like your old bike of course.

Andy

The new CCM was at the HU UK event
I've been following the development with interest as a lightweight mid-range bike is my ideal but I'd like new technology rather than old (currently owning 2 x 20yr old trail bikes)
However, it's too tall for me and the lowest setting isn't low enough & yet I thought it was probably too small to be comfortable for the average bloke on a long distance ride
The price is a consideration too - at £8k I think it should include all the accessories
I'll continue to follow the CCM production to see if they make further alterations which would make it a serious option for me.

How is it overpriced?
Why would you not touch CCM?

Strange opinion

Guess you ride a BMW

Please read post #11 in this thread for your answer. The bit about me riding a BMW is very funny. Thanks for cheering up my day. :D

I remember all the doubters when the KTM 950 was released - '' wouldn't touch it with a barge pole'' '' I'm not being the test bed with my money'' - ''lets see what happens a year down the road'' all the usual comments - now the KTM adventure are highly rated for the big tourer adventure bike they are and in my own opinion still bette than almost all the other bikes in that sector of the market I was criticised for buying one of the very first to be imported for two up touring (travelling)( I did not like the BMW offerings and have ethical problems about buying japanese products the KTM was simply excellent and mainly very reliable for a very high mileage as most have proven to be. Now I dont travel two up, nor will i do big mileages and need a small lightweight bike for shorter journeys - maybe around iceland, up to white sea in Russia etcI think the CCM will be just the job to do the job. I like quality bits and bobs and the ccm fits the bill. I do believe they have made massive effort to get the quality - and I think writing them off because off past troubles is to say the least a bit unfair - how many companies even the big ones inc yamaha and honda have and still do offer sub standard stuff with big price tags - just they are big enough to divert attention and pay off the press to get what they want written. CCM on the other hand are small and yes have made mistakes as well as some not so good bikes but also some very good ones - after the effort they have put into building this bike, involving customers and on top of that being more open than any company I have heard of - that need confidence in your product. I think I am more than prepared to put my money on the table as CCM need people to believe in them that will enable them to keep moving in the right direction with this bike so I have decided to go for one these, have placed a deposit and an order. I have spoken to CCM at length and have to say the customer feedback and help has been excellent here are afew bits of what we talked about today
Wiring harness is standard ( ie in my opinion - repairable) not can bus system.
Alternator is 2 phase and adequate to run lights and extra equipment but they are going to offer a higher output sytem as an extra.
Three fuel tanks all independent of each other - in case one should be damaged and all standard fitment not an extra.
Gearing in 5 speed box designed to allow at least 70 mph cruising speed without over stressing engine and a 6 speed box will be available as an extra.
Engine servicing would be fine for on the road / travel - so will be ok away from dealers and the factory are trying to sort out a system so you can arrange spares worldwide as well as pre arranged drop off points if you are on route via a particular area of the world to arrive in accordance with pre arranged dates etc.
Complete engine will be made available as replacement if required the cost at todays price is £1550 plus vat ( very very reasonable I think)

Jake.

Or you could just buy it from BMW for $6300

http://www.bmwmcchattanooga.com/prod...007728926.html

oops engine price was £1550 sorry not 1350 - still damn cheap compared to a rebuild of most stuff jake

BMw are jesting at that price - surely.

"I....have ethical problems about buying japanese products" [sic]

Detracts from an otherwise interesting post.

Hi Doc I am not trying to make any kind of political point nor trying to put anyone's nose out - I am simply stating something i do not do and why i err towards European made machines and why I do not consider Japanese made bikes when looking at the range of machines available (Japan being the biggest producer of bikes with some very fine engineering may i add). It is not an option i can consider for personal reasons of an ethical nature and that view is by the way not limited to Japan but I am not going into the reasons or any other part of my thinking on this matter - like i say its not an ethnic thing - its ethical.
Tchus jake.

Ha ... sadly no.

I know a replacement engine for my 650 X-Challenge is about 5000 EUR from BMW.

I have no doubt that if I could actually source one from Loncin in China, they would bill me about 500 EUR.

That's a canny mark up for some postage and taxes. :nono:

I have little doubt that you'd find you gotten what you paid for . . . a boat anchor that looked like your old engine. :) (Not justifying the BMW price.)

Harley makes some much better looking boat anchors, if you like chrome, though they are a bit more expensive.

Loncin make bmw engines

Just like Ural . . . only a more modern copy.

For a complete engine ???? Surely not.

An abs controller costs 1500 from BMW lol.

That does seem far too cheap for a new engine. Amazing if that's true.

Thats the price they said if I bought the bike from them - I think thats cost price as they will be buying the bikes engines in Bulk - who knows but BMW do have a tendency to up the price of parts to really silly money. Jake.

I'd buy the CCM just to be able to buy engines at that price.

Then I'd sell them to BMW owners for £4000 :smartass:

It never occured to me that a USP for buying a certain make/model of bike is the (alleged lack of) cost of a replacement engine. I prefer bikes where you never need to replace an entire engine.

I'll stick to the complete bike that cost me the same price as one CCM engine. I wish I had the money to p!ss against the wall for a BMW engine. Or if I had this sort of money I would spend it on petrol and cerveza doing a trip.

Chris your being a bit snobby this subject are you not - remember if no one buys a bike new - then you would never get your cheap second hand bike. Also they are not always loss makers just because you buy new, keep them long enough you get to ride them for many years then sell them for more than they originally cost. To name a few ( Ducati 900ss bought new 1976 £1800 sold in 1983 £3000 - if i had kept it it would be £15000 now, Laverda Monty bought for £1000 sold for £3000 (about £8000 now), laverda jota bought for £1800 sold for £6000 ( these can bring about £8000 now), 80 gs bought for £2000 sold after 110,000miles and a big restore for £7000 (actually just broke even on that one though - spent to much on the restore as i intended keeping it but sold when I thought I wouldnt ride again). KTM 950 bought new for £6500 had loads of fun for three years and sold it for £3 -£3500 but they are now around £4 to 5000 and rising).

As for the CCM engine debate - point I brought it up is simple - almost every bike I have owned has ended when the engine parts not being available / or getting too expensive etc, I know you buy rats and would throw away and start again but I would prefer to keep the thing going and have owned some of my bikes well over 20 years before they became difficult and simply very very expensive or no longer economic to repair - the chassis suspension etc all last for ever and are easy repaired, so If I am going to spend eight grand on a bike that will see me to the end of my bike riding days - i wanted to know if rather than rebuilding the thing ( ie like my last 80gs ) if it would be more economic to simply slot a new unit in. CCM agreed and have put forward the proposal and costing of replacement engine. So in years to come my one wont be on the market for you to buy for next to nowt to ride down to Africa or where ever and drink your beer at my expense. . jake.

Hi Jake
Having a different opinion to you doesn't make me snobby. I admire your trust in untested technology and your willingness to pay over the odds for what is essentially a dirtbike with a few more bits of plastic strapped to it.

You know my views on the BMW brand and how it failed me so badly. So there's absolutely no chance what so ever of me buying this CCM, new or used off you, considering it's connection to BMW.

Or Loncin

http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/p...ncinKyrgyz.jpg
A Loncin powered DRZ Gsxxxer..., photo by me, near Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan, Summer 2012

I saw a Laverda Jota and a Ducati 900ss (Mike the Bike Hailwood replica) the other day at Eddie's Motorcycles here in Shipley, West Yorks. Great looking bits of kit. I'm envious to never have owned either. I did ride a mate's Jota once though.

I'll buy you a beer if you're coming to Roadkill Cookout Danny's Hagg's Bank event on 21/22 September.

PS. In a previous version of your above post (you've edited it at least twice) you suggested I ride rats until they die and then bin them. That was originally the plan :-), but they never die :-(, so I can't ever bring myself to bin them. Hence, I own 6 bikes whose combined cost to me was less than the 8 grand for this CCM, including a Triumph roadbike that cost me 3.8 grand.

Your right Chris snobby is the wrong term - i amended the post trying to find the right word and a different opinion was not what I was trying to convey as we all have different opinions on stuff. I know 8 grand is a huge amount of money more than I would have ever spent on any bike - but other than an indian enfield I really have no other bikes now I want one bike for small trips it need to be light have excellent suspension and running gear, I dont look at jap stuff so that rules out a massive part of the bike arena in this catagory and where possible i like to buy british where I can even if in this case the engine developed by BMW used by husqvarna and made in Tiawan is maybe not my ideal combination. But I like the look of the bike - I will ride it and if it does not suit I wont buy it, then again if it does I will and will keep it as my only bike for the next umpteen years till i eventually give up riding altoghether. Due to being knackered i wont be doing any distance stuff. Be good to see you in any case and maybe I owe you a beer for being a bit harsh in my wording and yes i will be up at the do you mentioned with Iain and debz. So see you there - will be on the Infield though.

Come on Jake....
 

You keep mentioning it and I am curious to know...........what is your ethical problem with buying Japanese bikes?

In what way are the other manufacturers more ethical?

Doc - this gets pretty political also very off topic and certainly aint about bikes so this may not be the place to put this and it may well get struck off but I will answer your question and maybe it may be of interest who want to travel and see the wonder of our world and share it with the creatures that inhabit it with us. I have many years ago worked in many parts of the world, where I have dived as part of my job - but even prior to this I had an interest in and empathy with the worlds oceans, seas and the creatures that live in them. For over thirty years I have campaigned against the various whaling industrys and been part of various anti whaling action groups - and have campaigned against all the whaling nations and now only three remain of note - (Norway and Iceland on a different level to japan but still in there on a miniscule scale) but mainly the Japanese nation ( yes I include a lot (not all) of the japanese people who for some weird cultural reason hold the fisherman, whalers and dolphin slaughterers as national heros). The Japanese have broken international treaties and have ignored all nations and used blackmail and industrial might to persuade smaller reliant nations to back them on the issue of whaling etc ( if you vote against us they threaten to withdraw all support - industrial, financial etc.). The Japanese have also for some time supported pirate whaling to try to move the pressure away from themselves as those ships fly under a different flag and operate totally illegally - financed by guess who - The Japanese - they are the only nation who continue against international protestation to carry out industrial level of whaling, dolphin and porpoise hunting etc they kill the largest number of whales of any nation on earth, protected species or not, young whales nursing mothers and pregnant females there is no mercy even worse they also do their hunting in the international whaling reserve in the south pacific and antarctic oceons - this area was put in place to protect pregnant whales and schools with young to allow a safe haven for depleted stocks of whales and dolphins to recover. Japan does not recognise this area and continues to whale it under the banner of 'scientific research'. Japan currently has 5 years stock of unused whale flesh that they can not sell or use on the home market. They continue to Whale and have massive dolphin hunts and slaughter as its a tradition. They continue to fish on unbelievable scale and are stripping the south atlantic and antarctic ocean to the point of extinction. I will not give my hard earned money nor anything else to a nation who in my opinion are supporting a cause as bad for our wildlife and seas as Hitler was to the Jewish nation. I am well aware other nations cause damage, wars, environment meltdown etc and I including our own but this one is my own little battle and has been since the 1970's.

Bye that got that one of me chest. So you now know why mista Honda or suzuki aint on my shopping list . Jake.

I can't deny... I agree with a lot about what you're saying with the Japanese culture. I don't like that either.

However !! You wouldn't buy anything from anyone if you started judging the countries ethics and atrocities.

You certainly wouldn't buy German for obvious reasons. The Yanks melted kids in Vietman and are popping off Arabs like rednecks on a rabbit shoot at the moment so you couldn't buy U.S Bikes.

Hmmm... The Brits are responsible for some horrific genocides of lands, people and entire continents so anyone with a conscience couldn't support Triumph either. And every time you'd sit on a CCM you would feel the wrath of Ghandi...

You could shop for something from Switzerland. They're fairly neutral. Oh sh*t, they got rich of Nazi gold and stolen jewish artworks so they're dirty too.


Get my point ????? :smartass:

However.... I know as a fellow diver and nature lover, that it's something personal to you. And you're more than welcome to that opinion. :thumbup1:

If anyone gets struck off for saying what they think, I'm off too.

Got to agree with the whale thing, yet I have eaten it in Norway. No nation is perfect (because Yorkshire isn't independent!) so I'll buy from the perfectly nice people of Suzuki, Yamaha, Honda or Kawasaki. I'm a new bike buyer too, it is either being a snob or some authority problem with some *****y grease monkey forcing me to buy a non-strident horn and a new back light bulb to replace the one that stopped working between my house and his workshop on MOT day. I'm slightly anti-BMW too :rofl:

Now, getting back even close to on thread, how does the Husqvarna fall into this? Owned by BMW, but does it have CAN and an engine made in a place with a currently poor reputation for quality, average human rights record and dog/whale/white tiger & chips menu?

Andy

Chaps and chapesses, this thread should now return to being ON TOPIC.:funmeteryes:

"Finally, a single cylinder adventure bike"

CODSWALLOP!

Jap singles made in the last 2+ decades would be a wise choice for reliability, economy, preformance, adaptability, parts and price.

well isnt that the point of being neutral???

If you say we will take sides against Nazi Germany, then you are taking sides, and you arent being neutral.

The point of neutrality is you dont take sides. You dont discriminate. you dont say, Americans good, Russians bad, or Nazis bad, Albanians good. The whole point of neutrality is ... we treat you equally and your gold equally, whatever country you come from.

Neutrality is pure. Its non judgemental. Its not preaching moral superiority.

The Swiss accepted American Gold, as well as the gold of invaded European countries just as realidy as they accepted Nazi gold. Thats pure neutrality.

The reason allied and german negotiators could meet in Switzerland, was because they were neutral. They didnt take sides.

If an allied or german tried to cross the swiss border, armed, they were shot at, equally.

Thats true neutrality.

Sadly, the Swiss gave up 800 odd years of true neutrality just a decade or so ago. Switzerland prior to 2000 was about as neutral as a country is ever going to get. The only way to approach true neutrality, is to have no foreign policy. Refuse to comment or have an opinion or try to influence the policies of any foreign country. Treat all foreign powers equally. Thats neutrality. That means accepting Nazi gold as you would accept anyone elses gold.

The Austrians pretend to be neutral ... they are not. The Finns pretend to be neutral. They are not. The swedes pretend to be neutral. They are not. The Irish pretend to be neutral. They are not. But the swiss .... they were as close as you will ever get.

but they dont make motorcycles

But at 20 years old you have carbs with rotting bits of rubber to sort out, electrics designed when communication and navigation involved lumps of tree bark and every year I'd have to let some greasemonkey fiddle with the thing and buy parts I didn't need before they'll let me pay tax. Probably not factors for a one off big trip and a disadvantage when buying a carnet, but when squeezing in riding with the rest of life, new can be better.

Andy

They scarcely exist in environmentally-conscious Europe now: most Jap manufacturers have moved to a parallel twin engine design of about the same capacity, such as the Versys, 500/700cc Hondas, + the V twin Gladius engine in the WeeStrom.
Yam are well overdue to update their 660 single engine but they have openly admitted that their bike division profits come from selling 125cc machines in Asia.

Some of those 20 year old bikes (DR650, KLR650, XR650) are still being made today, and others like the DRZ400 are quite simple tech as well, so you can have your old tech support and new bike reliability all in one...

I've got a newish chinabike that I'd rely to get me around the world as much as the CCM.
Much simpler motor to work on, and many parts are Honda compatible.

If you are into sub-250 cc bikes, plenty of strong, easy to service ag / business / delivery bikes and so on being sold in Asia, Africa and South America.

And prices mostly would come within the engine budget of the CCM.

None of above have nearly the snob appeal of a BMW, KTM or even a CCM though...

Sent from my A898 Duo using Tapatalk 4 Beta

Of course everyone with a BMW, KTM or CCM bought it because of the snob appeal. Or wait, maybe some of them don't want a sub-250cc delivery bike?

10-minute argument or the full half hour?
 

I agree.
Soon the test rides will be taking place. Looking forward to impressions.

[QUOTE=motoreiter;427787]Of course everyone with a BMW, KTM or CCM bought it because of the snob appeal. Or wait, maybe some of them don't want a sub-250cc delivery bike?[/QUOTE

I also mentioned the 650s and the DRZ400...

Maybe the CCM has a better spec than the DRZ400, but which one would you trust for many years of service around the world?
The one with a one-off motor from a small manufacturer with likely limited testing and development infrastructure based off a discontinued BMW model, from a brand that will likely go in a completely different direction for motors this year? Or a tried and tested model from one of the big 4?

I wish CCM well, but I have no idea why they would have chosen that motor for an 'adventure' bike.


Don't knock the commercial bikes. They are built to take a beating in very harsh environments with minimal servicing. And carrying loads that would break most dualsport bikes.
I've seen some of these carrying 4 or more people and/or huge loads on some very sketchy roads in SE Asia. I think my record so far was 9 people on a 150, with 2 additional shocks welded in out back, and 8 or 10 foot planks down the side to serve as a passenger and load carrying platform.

I have a 125 dualsport that's built off a commercial platform, and it's been ridden hard on some bad roads / trails, carrying 340 to 440 lb of rider / passenger(s) and luggage.

Parts are generally available in SE Asia, South America and several other countries. Most parts can be found Europe and North America as well.


Sent from my A898 Duo using Tapatalk 4 Beta

First, I have no opinion on the CCM and doubt I'd buy one until there is more feedback about it. In any event though, it is good to have more choice, and I wish CCM success.

I don't doubt that many of the little bikes can take a beating. And its great if people like them and find them perfect for their needs. But that doesn't mean that someone who has chosen a different bike has done so for reasons of "snob appeal".

I don't think there is anything or anybody who is really neutral. I think it's humanly impossible.

The Swizz SHOULD make bikes. Some of the finest engineering in the world comes from there.

I would imagine the motorcycle equivalent of a Rolex and a cuckoo clock. It would be fabulous.

Yup.... My XR650L is 20 years old now. It's only done 15,000 miles but it's rusted and rotten. LOT's of restoration needed. Find me a twenty year old 'Ridden' bike that doesn't.

However, they're immensely easier and cheaper to fix and repair than anything modern.

[QUOTE=tigershel;427801]I rode mine DRZ400 to capetown. It was far from perfect but then I knew the bike inside out and did a lot of EXPENSIVE preparation to make sure it got there. There is A LOT that can go wrong with a drz, and it does often.. BUT !! It's very easy and simple to fix.

The DRZ400 is a classic already. I fancy another one now I've sold mine. They will be a sort after and EXPENSIVE bike in another ten years. Everyone should get one stashed away while they're cheap and in nice condition.

The Swiss have made Bikes. Motosacoche was one of the earliest bike manufacturers and supplied MAG engines to many other companies.
Universal made singles and post war, big flat twins.
Condor made a purpose built flat twin for the Swiss army, and more recently built their own version of the Ducati single for military use.

Also Egli-Vincent and Egli-Honda, Swiss frames, non-Swiss other stuff.

Tigershell - and all the other harbingers of doom, I have gone down the road of modifying, repairing and rebuilding bikes, I have also used excellent new bikes (ktm 950 for instance - that never really let me down despite the doubters at the time) but why cant we all be happy that someone is really making an effort to build a bike that to all intensive purposes does not exist off the shelf since the ktm 640 adventure dissapeared - to fit a very small market - no one is forcing any of you to buy it but at least its an option if you so choose - why so many negatives and very few positives - maybe it has some compromises maybe it does not, But look overall a small lightweight bike with descent power output and a very good power to weight ratio, built not as a total trial bike but as something with some ability to cross over as a small adventure bike ( I know there are doubters that it can do it - but if a BMW 1200 or chinese/jap/italian step through 50cc moped can be traveled on then I am sure this bike can - like I say they can all travel to the shops or round the world but its just different choices some like brown horses others like cream ones and some like donkeys - does it really matter thats what makes everyone different - I am looking to buy the ccm simply because I like the look of it, I love the enthusiasm and openess of all the staff at the factory, i love the features they have put on it as standard, (three tanks, excellent suspension, a very good chassis good brakes a fairly well proven engine ( Fair enough set up and re mapped but originally from a short stroke enduro engine) you all knock the engine - why ? I cant comment I wont test ride one till 19 july - but I am sure KYMCO who actually make the engine are not as bad as many seem to make out ( check out the company profile I didnt read anything about making gearboxes out of cheese or gaskets from cardboard boxes) CCM have been using it for some time to get it to where they are with it at present. But I have little doubt that the kymco /BMW derived engine will certainly be of a reasonable build and quality standard and may i suggest as well made as many other engines on the market. Depending on the way CCM have set it up to run in this particular machine is still an unknown but they are at least open enough to offer test rides and are having a press examination of the bike as well as factory visits and days and so yes its an unknown but one with a huge sense of honesty , openess and confidence from the factory, the staff and the director who incidently you can actually pick up the phone to and speak to directly he has not chosen to hide behind a massive press machine. They have reached out and asked - what do you want and within reason and price they have tried to build something to fit. If the bike rides well and I feel it fits me and my needs I will leave my deposit in place if not I wont ( that is another option that was offered a refundable deposit on the strength of the bike being what they say). Oh bye the way I also ride an Indian Enfield (Infield) and yes it does a job - like your budget workhorses - but and there is a big BUT - the Infield is very slow, basic and uncomfortable in its own way a fun bike, of dubious build quality poor chassis and suspension but I am sure if my old bones could cope I could ride as far as i would on any other bike including the ccm - On the Infield it would take longer, I would need to stop and work on it a bit more and I may end up broken down with no spares back up but then again I do not think it would be my bike of choice any more than a 50cc chinese made workhorse as a machine to set off anywhere too distant to be honest. I will leave that to the eccentric madmen amongst us. On that note anyone heard from Birdy recently?

2012 V-strom ; 2 hours maintenance this year, total cost something like £100 in chain lube, brake cleaner, oil and filters. Will be a dog at 8 years old, but SEP by then.

2004 Triumph Bonneville; 1 day off work argueing with/getting to and from the grease monkey about the MOT, eventually fixed with a £100 bribe where he then ****ed up a brake disc bolt playing with something that wasn't broken when taken in on old bike tax day. 2-hours fixing grease monkeys **** ups using taps, bolts and grease "borrowed" from work (boss smoothed with hours of unpaid overtime). New coil after twenty minute visit to M-62 hard shoulder, 1 hour and £100 fixing, 1 weeks riding lost due to worry about reliability. Same £100 in oil, filters etc. as the Wee.

The Wee is also doing 65 mpg not 45. Covers the depreciation when I sell it at 2 years 11 months old.

It's what you are used to (I'm better with PC diagnostics than carbs BTW, although when hardly anyone will sell me the PC kit its a PITA) and who you know for sure. Also what you are doing, the carnet on a £1300 Bonneville would be a lot cheaper than the Wee. Horses for courses and all that. The new doesn't break argument requires care in purchasing which is indeed a sad reflection on the industry.

I'd love a 250cc cargo bike BTW but they won't sell me one in the UK. The Enfield C5 Bullet is on the watch list for potential Wee replacements along with the CCM, Glee, CB500X and Husqvarna. This list is longer than the one I made in 2012 once I'd crossed off overpriced Triumphs and under developed F800's, so maybe things are going the way I at least want with some of the manufacturers.

Andy

I guess everyone is entitled to their views; I agree with yours about the whaling and killing porpoises BTW, but don't think HondaKawaYamaZuki are responsible so don't mind buying their bikes.

Horses for courses I suppose.

Personally, I don't buy Israeli goods, but that's just my bugbear.....

Thanks for explaining - ride on.

That's servicing..... My bikes cost about £40 to service with oil and filters !!

I've had a 650 Strom. Good bike. Not the most fun to work on. Getting the plugs out is a PITA alone.


Like said, any bike with rusted fasteners and dry rubbers in harder to work on. some better than others though.

And price/prestigue has little to do with it.

....and i call my XT a road whale doh what was I thinking.

An't it great to have a choice, so what will I use to take me where ever I want? Here in OZ I am spoilt with over two dozen different bikes from all corners of the world! In Europe and the UK you have even greater choice :rolleyes2:

Get over it and get out and ride.

Ernesto from Uruguay (do a search on the forum) just did 18000 reliable K's around Australia on a Kimco 125, for which he bought for $2000 OZ new :scooter: Just shows what you can do if you don't let your ego/bias get in the road of a good time.

Rod

Adventure950, I'm not wishing for CCM to fail. I just don't understand the reasoning behind using the BMW/Kymco motor.

In BMW form, it didn't ser the world alight and I've heard some murmurs of dissatisfaction from a few friends who bought the original bike.
The motor in BMW trim needed revs to perform, whereas on a long distance bike most prefer something with more low and midrange power.

Be that as it may, BMW has discontinued that model, and I think by the time the dust settles on the KTM/Husky takeover, CCM will be the only customer.

I tried going down the lightweight adventure bike a few years ago with a Husky TE610. Wet weight was under 150kg, power was in the 45 hp range, and I did some much needed mods for tank, headlight and saddle, among several other things.

The main reason I don't have that bike in SE Asia right now is primarily because of parts and service availability.
I don't want to spend time and $$$ having to source parts from around the world for a limited build motor, especially as Husky runs down inventory over the next few years.

And, u suspect Husky produced a bunch more 610 motors than CCM will be producing of these.

I love my TE, good suspension, light weight, wide ratio 6 speed box, good power right through the rev range. But just too many drawbacks once you are beyond the dealer network.

Sent from my A898 Duo using Tapatalk 4 Beta

I look forward to that comprehensive review.
Presumably the test ride is in the Bolton area.

The motor is a good one !! It will be up to CCM to work their tuning out. That will make or break it.

They will also probably change the cam....

CCM have a great opportunity here. I hope they don't f**k it up....


I don't think you can compare the motor with a Husky. Huskys were built for performance over reliability. They're race bikes.

The motor is from the BMW G450 race bike that "God" David Knight spectacularly bombed with. Neither performance, nor reliability. Before and since he's won everything on a KTM and even on his own off the shelf Kawasaki shortly after he walked out of BMW. He'd probably win on a Kimco.

All the trail riders and "normal" racers in the UK didn't touch it. They stuck to their Suzukis, Hondas, Yamahas and KTMs. That's why it was discontinued.

I suppose CCM got a job-lot very cheaply?

I really do wish CCM well, but I fear they'll be flogging a dead horse, figuratively and literally.

Those race bikes were surely tuned up ?????


And yeah... CCM don't do anything unless they get a cheap job lot.

DRZ400 engines and DR650 Engines was the norm for a long time.

... And these 2 Suzuki engines had/still have a proven pedigree for reliability and longevity. As I mentioned in an earlier post, CCM went bust in the mid-2000s using these 2 engines, in the "good old days" of bike selling when their potential customers had money and cheap credit was available.

Well I dont think you can say for all of us that its a question of "what will do it". If you are stubborn enough you can take a Goldwing across Mongolia. Whats the point proving it can be done? Thats ego. Why not be allowed to do what is actually fun for you?

Ultimately, like anything in life, its about happiness. Enjoyment. Pleasure. There is no greater currency. I dont want to take a Goldwing where I like to ride, cause it just wouldn't be fun for me. And I dont want to sit on Kymco 125 for 18,000 km of asphalt with 1-2 short stretches of light graded gravel roads across the "Great Australian Fu@k All", cause for me, its not fun - personally, nothing would bore me more.

Its unreasonable to imply if someone doesnt fancy riding a 125cc Kymco across the GAFA for 18,000 km its because his ego is in the way.

The "what will do it" or "any bike will do it" mentality is for people who dont care about the bike. The focus is travel. The bike is merely a means to get there.

Thats fine but dont kid yourself that its a view that speaks for all of us. Some us do like the riding as much as the travelling. For those of us that do, the choice of bike is of equal importance as the choice of route. For those of us who do find a lot of value in the actual riding, the choice of bike tends to be one in which you apply critical thought and rationality ... what bike will do what I want it to do? I would guess that a lot of guys who are looking at this bike are in that "rationalists" group when it comes to bike selection. Its not about ego. CCM is hardly a brand that you can boast about down at the next HUBB meet. Its not about size. The bike is half the weight of the 1200cc tanks. Its about rationality. Its a very light bike, with a modern brand name engine, excellent suspension, big fuel tanks and looks to have the potential not just to be go to far more remote places than the big adventure bikes, but to allow you have 20 times the fun doing it. For some of us, its about choosing a bike that is fun to throw around in the dirt at high speed. Whats wrong with that?

For that, for me, a Kymco scooter wont cut it, nor will any of the current 800cc and 1200cc bikes, nor will most of the Japanese 1980s vintage singles, like KLR650s, DR650s, etc ... thus, for some of us, this bike is potentially very interesting.

None of them are built for adventure travel. None of them are marketed for adventure travel. None of them are even available in Europe because the technology in them means they are a couple of generations behind modern emissions rules which means no carbs, no air cooling. Sure you can modify them to make them suitable, but then you can do that to any bike really ... which gets back to the old point, if any bike is an adventure bike, then there is no such thing as an adventure bike.

Besides, the performance of them reflects the fact that they are 2-3 decade old designs.

The topic was clearly referring to Adventure Bikes, as in on the dealers showroom floor adventure bikes.

The only bikes I would consider to be out of the box, purpose designed and marketed single cylinder adventure bikes in the last 2 decades are the KTM 620/640 adventure and the Yamaha Tenere.

[QUOTE=colebatch;427923].

The "what will do it" or "any bike will do it" mentality is for people who dont care about the bike. The focus is travel. The bike is merely a means to get there.

Thats fine but dont kid yourself that its a view that speaks for all of us. Some us do like the riding as much as the travelling. For those of us that do, the choice of bike is of equal importance as the choice of route. For those of us who do find a lot of value in the actual riding, the choice of bike tends to be one in which you apply critical thought and rationality ... what bike will do what I want it to do? I would guess that a lot of guys who are looking at this bike are in that "rationalists" group when it comes to bike selection. Its not about ego. CCM is hardly a brand that you can boast about down at the next HUBB meet. Its not about size. The bike is half the weight of the 1200cc tanks. Its about rationality. Its a very light bike, with a modern brand name engine, excellent suspension, big fuel tanks and looks to have the potential not just to be go to far more remote places than the big adventure bikes, but to allow you have 20 times the fun doing it. For some of us, its about choosing a bike that is fun to throw around in the dirt at high speed. Whats wrong with that?

I cold not agree more with these statements - for me the daily ride is far more important than the destination and to enjoy that ride the bike must be something that meets your own particular needs at that time and for that riding. You summed it all up very well. Jake.

Ted have you done much work on these engines ? Speaking to CCM roughly what I have been told was CCM have changed the ignition map, lowered the red line and that the torque and mid range area of the motor are better tuned for this application, which with other changes you would think cam timing would be an area to hit straight away - That along with 5000 mile service periods suggests a far milder motor than the pure enduro motor it was based on. Problem is everyone is guessing and at this point till its released to the press they aint saying..
I know when I did all the work on my r80gs/ HPN project altering the piston, changing the gas flow, altering the ignition map and putting in a 296 cam, along with a heavier crank and a change in gear ratios changed the bike completely from a standard BMW gs engine, it had oodles more torque everywhere with a very fat flat torque curve and yes it ran out of speed and revs around 90 mph lower than a standard gs but was far far nicer to ride in every other area of the rev range for the application I used it - so I would assume to do this when buying new engines direct from the manufacturer it would be easy and cost effective to dial in a few new specs on the manufacture over a large order and would also change the whole character of the engine. It would seem madness spending all this money on a chassis/ bodywork suspension and build program to throw in a fiery peaky pure enduro race engine. As Chris reminds us CCM have made big mistakes in the past - I would think like most of us we try to learn from our mistakes NOTE: ( I have just learnt to remember not to start writing on here with a belly full of beer and neat sailor jerry rum jeiger and start to harp on about japan and whales. !!! In a pub it's all in the mists of the night before and forgotten the next day on hear well its still on here) :nono: jake.

To be honest, I have no experience with the engine whatsoever. I just think its far too early to write off. No one makes a bad engine. Its just how its applied, finished and tuned...
Ccms aren't bad bikes. You just have to know what you're buying. Everything from 2005 onward has been pretty good.

Their SR40 is bloody brilliant. I want one !!!

www.touringted.com

Maybe you shouldn't make blanket statements either.
The TE610 was Husky's dualsport model, built for road duty with 3000 mile service intervals, improved alternator output to power accessories and lights

The power output from the 575cc motor is around what I'm hearing CCM is getting from the 450, although knowing both motors (in BMW trim anyway), the Husky is much less dependent on revs to make progress.

The 450 was fat more slanted to the dirt/race side of things than the 610, and in fact when BMW bought Husky, that motor was moved into some Husky 'race' models.

Maybe CCM / Kymco has done a lot more homework on this motor, improving stator output, service intervals, power band characteristics, setting up several years supply of parts and so on, but most of that will take at least 2 and maybe 5+ to prove out.

Sent from my A898 Duo using Tapatalk 4 Beta

Seriously? What sort of service would you need that much to get between you and your dream bike? If you can't do any maintenance personally or can't receive parts in the post I could understand. I can't say I've ever needed a dealer mechanic ever I think. If anything, I actively try to stay away from them. I certainly don't get my parts from them. Even Yamaha charges ridiculous prices, like 65 bucks for a 18 dollar relay.

I agree with your point but I think he was arguing on the basis or reliability not anything will do the job.

The whole point of reliability is a difficult one I think. I've never had anything go wrong with the F650 Dakar, a loathed bike by a lot. And I have had issues with the still considered bomb proof completely rebuilt 3AJ Tenere. If it's new and well built it's likely to last a typical 25k km trip.

EXTENSIVE or expensive ? Stator bolts, water pump seal, . . . what mod was expensive ?

Classic ? Sure, a box of parts that is neither lovely (the rear shock looks like something from Soviet days, the thin magnesium case covers on an already heavy bike will puncture from a hard stare, the brakes which are at their limit BEFORE a subtle mod to airbox and jetting, the ridiculously thin (22g) electrical wiring to the similarly pathetic headlight, etc) nor inspiring (torqueless even after carb & intake mods and 5-speeds (!)).

Yeah . . . the TE610 is powered by a very street-oriented motor. The subsequent TE630 has the benefit of the same overbuilt bottom-end and a better top-end (from the TE510, a race bike) but in both cases a significantly lowered state of tune. Husky was very forward stating that the "TE630 is the most street-oriented motorbike we've ever made . . . following on the TE610".

The TE630 is supposed to be 20% more powerful than the TE610 and that's been widely discredited. If there's one complaint with the TE6xx's it's that they make significantly less power and use significantly more fuel than a KTM 690. I have a TE630 and at the price point it was a good value and if possible would have it in Thailand replacing my DRZ400 in a heart beat !

The 450 was . . . forced on Husky. It does not have a great rep, deservedly or not. If it were so good . . . why would BMW abandon it ?

Few if any on this forum MUST ride a motorbike. Being entirely rational is a bit . . . odd. It's two wheels - it's inherently unstable . . . it should be FUN. Kymco 125 . . . fun ? To each his own but just riding to cover miles . . . or to do it most cheaply . . . those are the forced decisions of many people all over the world. Those who COULD have some fun SHOULD have some fun.

Expensive as in it need radiator guards, a plastic tank, case guards and 3x3 modding to make it a nice bike to ride and a hardy bike to overland across Africa. After those mods it's pretty much bullet proof IF you know how to look after them.

It's still a bit of a classic for those who like simple, easy to ride and easy to work off road bias lightweight bikes. A bit like the XT600's but lighter and more capable.

The suspension is actually pretty good. It's not race spec but it's WAY better than what comes bolted to a lot of 'Adventure bikes'..

There's nothing on a DRZ that a Haynes manual mechanic couldn't diagnose and fix. It's light enough and easy to lower so good with the ladies too.


I'd ride one RTW over an F650 ANYDAY...

So yeah.. I think it will become popular in another 5-10 years when you can't buy a single bike which doesn't need to be plugged into a computer to keep it running.

Horses for courses though isn't it..

Tmotten: I was quite capable of servicing the Husky myself, I still have all the tools to strip a different reassemble the motor.

However, it doesn't sound like you have lived extensively in 3rd world countries. I ordered something from Hong Kong recently, got it 2 months later (instead of the quoted 1 to 2 weeks, fortunately I'd put my girlfriend's phone number on it as the post office couldn't find her address.
90% of houses here don't have street numbers or often even street names: the delivery guy forks to the village / suburb office to see if they can give directions, or they just ask around.

I tried to ship a laptop here 2 years back: 2 weeks quoted delivery time and cost was $120 to 200 plus, USPS or FEDEX. And even then it can get hung up in customs or in the local delivery loop.

Lastly, I travel around, and don't get a lot of pleasure in dragging a complete set of tools and spares with me. I may as well be on a GS in that case.

I hear the folks that want to have their ultimate machine, because they enjoy the way-out riding more than the travel and seeing stuff. That's funny as well, been there myself in the past.
But I'd put it to you that maybe you shouldn't be RTWing in that case, instead pick a bunch of ideal riding destinations where you won't get too far from support and medical, and have at it.

If you try to push the limits in most 3rd world countries, you stand a very good chance of crashing, and that isn't much fun at all: BTDT, don't want to do it again. Medical & emergency services, bike recovery / repair, trip delays/cancellation, are mostly much worse out here than in the West.

I also tend to disagree that you have to have the latest and greatest to enjoy the ride.
There's something to be said for the idea that it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow.. In many places I've been, you will spend more time throttling back a top-end
Some of the best trips I've done have been on 125s to 200cc bikes, going places that would have been difficult and tiring (or impossible) on big machines. I find that I can enjoy riding 90% of the bikes out there. Excluding cruisers of course: I'd rather ride my bicycle...

Ad for the idea that bikes aren't the best form of transport, I rather disagree. Many of the places I've been recently you can only get to by bike (usually smaller ones) or horse/buffalo. That's how the locals transport all their stuff.

And very often in those places, you don't want to be on the latest & greatest, blending in by riding what the locals do (or something close) vastly reduces the likelihood of kidnapping & robbery. At the very least, the 'American tax' (higher prices asked from foreigners) is likely to be much reduced if you blend in with the locals better. You will also have more genuine interactions with them.

Just an alternative perspective on bikes and travel, we each have to work out what works best for us.

Sent from my A898 Duo using Tapatalk 4 Beta