Honda Crf 250 L as overlander
 

Hello folks

Cant find a lot about this bike on the forum so I thought I might as well start a thread about this bike myself.
And especially using it as a overland bike.

I just came back from holiday in Thailand where I rented a Honda Crf 250 L and rode around more than 4000 km in 10 days. Mostly on those 3 and 4 digit mountain roads in Northern Thailand - that gives you a big grin when Your riding them, but also highways and a day offroad.

I am hugely impressed about how smooth and versatile this bike is. Pulls easily up to 110 km/h and cruises smoothly in 95-100 along the highway. Strong in steep mountainparts - but of course not as a 650 single.

Easy on the fuel - I got 90-95 mpg both highway and mountainroad riding on 91 octane. On 95 octane I got somewhat more, maybe 10 % more but I didnt record thoroughly.

Oil change interval are 12000 km/8000 miles, not bad either.

The main concerns as I see it is first the range. The gas tank is 7,7 liters wich gave me a range approx 250 km. (Usually filled up at 220-240 km)
There is a aftermarket tank at 11,2 liters which will give approx a 350 km range given the same milage I got on my + 4000 km.
350 km is not that fantastic but you can always carry for example a 2-3 liter can extra for those long parts.

The other concern I see is luggage options. There doesnt seem to be many unless you make Your own rear and side rack. There are many rear rack available but it wouldnt support side panniers soft or hard.
Anyone know more about this?
And then - can this small bike carry a man with gear of 100 kilos and luggage 20-30 kilos on a long overland tour?

Is the rear suspension tough enough for a long overland tour with a heavy driver and luggage? There are several aftermarket suspension available. But is it neccesary and worth the money? They seem to cost 7-800 $.

Else I Guess its just to put on the general mods such as bash plate, engine guard, radiator guards, handguards and maybe a windshield. And maybe some other small stuff......

I plan to drive from Europe to Southeast-Asia next year and then tour Southeast-Asia extensively.

Thanks in advance.....:mchappy:

Do you know who supplies the 11 liter tank for the 250L?

My wife has one and we've been unable to get any information on bigger tanks for her bike- plenty for the 250R and X, but not the L model. And they're not compatible as the frames are different

Apparantly there is a Company in US that produces this ones....

IMS Products : Home

Its sold from an UK Company as well and although they call it /claim its a 12 litre tank its the same as the above mentioned...

http://www.adventure-spec.com/defaul...tre-black.html

I've fitted an IMS to mine, happy with it. If you head over to ADVRider there's a couple of threads there dedicated to this bike. If you can sort out the wheat from the chaff, thete is some good stuff there about luggage and stuff.

honda 250
 

Have you considered an older xr250r say 2003 low mileage?

Air cooled, kickstart, 108kg. maybe use a 15t front sproket for highway use?

Just a thought.

Chris

Ps Acerbis do a 5 gall (22l) tank for £200gpb delivered.

I've got one and will never part with it. It's the bike that will always survive and get through. (IMHO).

Chris Scott did a report on one of these a while ago.

There you go - http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...-crf250l-70515

Another extensive CRF250L Chris Scott review from his Web site:
http://adventure-motorcyclingh.com/2...mile-review-2/

Seems like a great little bike. I have experience with the earlier CRF230R ... the Brazilian made Air Cooled one. Two versions: Off road only or Street legal L version. The 250 version is NEW, made in Thailand now. Great reviews.

I worked quite a bit on the air cooled off road version. Before doing extensive Carb and exhaust mods it was quite weak ... gutless really. But by opening up air box, re-jetting Carb and adding aftermarket pipe the little 230 picked right up. MUCH BETTER ... and especially good in slow, technical trail riding. Gearing on the Off road version is TOO LOW for street duty.

But the biggest let down of the CRF230 (IMO) was the poor, out of balance suspension. Too stiff, harsh rear, too soft front forks.

On Thumper Talk I found the CRF230 suspension Guru ... a guy in San Jose, CA. He rebuilt and re-valved the shock for UNDER $200. Huge, positive difference for 185 lbs. rider.

For the forks I added Race Tech emulators, drilled damper rods and heavier springs and oil. Fantastic difference. Now this little bike was ready to handle ANY tough enduro trail. NO ... still was not "Fast" ... but it could make through just about anything and climb nearly any steep hill.

It sounds like this new liquid cooled version is better all the way around. But looks like it still needs suspension work. Most loaded up travel bikes need help in this area, no surprise there.

I ride an air cooled bike with a Carb. (DR650) I appreciate the basic simplicity of NO radiators and NO Fuel Injection.

But would I let that put me off the new CRF250L? No. I trust Honda to have built a tough and reliable system that will stand up to abuse.

Your own experience on the Rental bike in Thailand, IMO, is an excellent test. I'd estimate the CRF250L is better than most realize and may be surprised at what the bike is capable of. Buy one, do the suspension upgrades, fit luggage and GO!
Not many better choices in the world, IMO.

Saludos! bier

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-6...Ao/s800/32.jpg
Chris Scott's test bike with luggage, riding in the UsA

I would have considered that bike if it was available where I come from. But its not.....

I have been reading that one of course. But although he writes well and adds up with a lot of experience it didnt get me to feel more or less sure about using this kind of bike for overlanding....

Thanks, I have been reading a little there. The problem is - as you so perfectly point out - to sort the wheat from the chaff.
It looks like their main interest is to find ways to add a tiny tad of power to the engine. My opinion is that if you want more power than a 250 gives you - then you buy something bigger. Anyhow I will continue reading there....

The problem with the IMS tank is that the cap isnt lockable. And there isnt any other caps that fits the IMS tank. And it doesnt feel safe to me while far away from home.

About luggage - I have searched the net extensibly the last 5-6 weeks and I still havent found something deceent stuff for the Crf. Rear and side rack and lockable panniers - thats what I want. If you know any - please tell me.

Thanks for sharing thoughts, its appriciated....:thumbup1:

Well - I found the power and the character of the Crf 250L engine very well. In fact its about the smoothest motorbike engine I have ever rode. Thats the best part of the bike in my opinion. So I wouldnt like to do anything with it. Just keep it stock and secure relyability and low fuel consumption. And according to dyno tests its stronger than the other 250 ccm engines (Yamaha wr250r and Kawasaki Klx 250) in the most used rpm area of 4-6000 rpm. The Yam wr are are of course stronger if you rev it higher and I have also been thinking about the Yam wr250 as an alternative. But I think the Crf might be more suitable - although I havent made up my mind yet. I own a Yamaha XT660Z Tenere for the moment but I really dont like it that much. If I choose the Ten I have to do many and expensive upgrades - and I still have a quite heavy bike that I might still not like that much....

I am not very skilled mechanically but I cant see whats so negative with a bike with EFI and that is liquid cooled. EFI very seldom breaks down and secure lower fuel consumption and liquid cooled keeps the engine temprature much steadier than aircooled. But lets not start a big discussion about this in this thread - as there are many other threads covering that subject already in many forums.

The problems with the Cfr are as I see it:

1. Too small fuel tank. Ok - one can replace the stock with the 11,2 litre from IMS. But still not a huge range - 350 km max. And the IMS tank are not lockable and I am a little paranoid about that. What if someone adds something in the fuel tank that shoudnt be there...when youre in the Stans for example...
2. Luggage and racks - there arent a whole lot available. And those who are, for example the rear and side racks are just unbeliveable big and ugly (Renali, Segoia) And I want some lockable panniers as I am a little paranoid about that someone will like to steal my stuff while far away from home. I wish Happy Trials could make some nice racks and metal panniers for the Crs as they do for the Yam wr250. Those are fantastic in my eyes although expensive.
3. The stock suspension should probably be replaced - although I must admit I donno a whole lot about this. The stock ones seem a little soft - but that suited me fine on the +4000 km ride in Thailand. Why add stiffer ones?
To avoid total fracture maybe?

4. Off course there are concerns that the 250 will be just to stressed and will break down and/or wear out sooner than what is expected and sooner than a bigger bike. And thus give problems that could have been avoided with a bigger bike. Difficult to say really.....
And as Chris Scott said - a 250 ccm could just be too plain boring. Well I didnt think so the +4000 km I rode on it, but this could of course change.

Still have to make up my mind.....:confused1:

I have a few issues with Chris Scott's review.
Most of what he says is quite accurate, but the bike was not set up well for his ride.

Having lived at altitude for many years, the machine usually needs to be leaned out to cope with the lower air pressure.
Modern EFI usually deals with this fine, bur was likely defeated on his bike by the aftermarket controller, which seems to have been running rich.

At 6000 feet you lose around 18% power compared to sea level.
So the second crucial mod should have been to change the stock gearing to cope with the heavy rider and load, as well as altitude power loss.
Most CRF mods seem to start with changing the stock gearing anyway.

The other issue is that the riding area (SW USA) is one of the most unsuitable areas for small cc touring: long, straight well surfaced roads, whereas somewhere like SE Asia and other 3rd world destinations would bring out all its strengths, as 50 to 60 mph is a very acceptable speed there.

The CRF will pick up aftermarket support, it just needs a few more years to develop. Honda is selling it in most markets around the world (far more than supposedly popular choices like BMW), so backup and parts should also continue to grow even in 3rd world countries.

I tour on my YBR125G and a Zongshen 200 in SE Asia, even 2 up, and they work fine.

Obviously you need to pay attention to stuff like gearing, luggage weight and so on, but that pays off really well in keeping the bike manageable in rough conditions, where heavier machines are a PITA and often force taking a different route, or even skipping some destinations.

Just a different opinion.

You've thought about this a lot. Good! The Yamaha WR250R has an excellent reputation here in USA and more and more riders choosing it for long tours. This latest version CRF250L is quite new here ... but it's catching on quickly. Either would be good, IMO.

I would recommend learning basic mechanics before your trip: tire changing, oil, coolant, filters changes, chain and sprockets, wheel bearings and basic electrical. None of this is difficult. You can do it all once you practice AND HAVE THE RIGHT TOOLS.

Many travelers ignore chains and sprockets. They are very important ... and very easy to take care of ... but many ignore and have problems.

You are correct, liquid cooling and F.I. are the future and do help with better fuel economy and make riding at high altitude less problematic. But with F.I. you inherit some possible problems. And radiators are wonderful ... if you never crash! :helpsmilie: But I must admit ... in 6 or 7 years racing enduro, I never damaged a radiator or lost an engine due to over heating. But I have seen blown hoses, holed radiators and failed waterpumps. I've also seen F.I. bikes STOP for NO reason. Nothing to be done. Get Help! :thumbdown:
Rare? Yes, very. But it does happen. (mostly to BMW and KTM).

I have a locking cap on my IMS fuel tank. I'm quite sure the aftermarket will cover this ... if not already available. IMS is US company. Contact them ... they can find locking cap.
I agree ... another 3 or 4 liters would be nice ... you may have to attach a Juice Jug ... or? :thumbup1: Keep in mind most ALL IMS tanks expand over time and use. My tank is rated at 4.9 US gallons. After about six months it would take 5.3 US gallons. This is common with IMS tanks. (I've owned them on many bikes since the 1980's)

I'm betting pannier racks will appear soon, perhaps smaller boxes as well. I'm a fan of soft bags ... having used hard and soft bags over the last 50,000 miles on my DR6650. I don't worry too much about theft but am careful where I leave my bike. Often I hire kids to keep an eye out. Or use private parking lots or a Police station. At Hotels, no problem. I use inner bags with my soft panniers, just carry them in with my top dry bag. 30 seconds, on and off.

If you end up with hard boxes then you will add a lot of extra weight on the bike. On a long ride you will probably have more gear than on your first Thailand ride. (I've ridden Thailand on rented bikes twice ... once in 1992, again in 1995)

So, weight is one reason why firmer suspension with better damping is required. It's safer riding at speed on road, easier to stay in control on dirt roads with weight on the bike. Once set up, you can achieve a perfect front to rear suspension balance. More rider confidence, more fun, fewer crashes.

The original suspension will not "fracture" it's just not set up from and factory for the use you intend. With better suspension you can ride FASTER ... and do so safely. :mchappy:

Perhaps on long, straight roads it might be boring ... but just about any bike is boring on such roads. Best to find alternate routes ... find small roads to take.

With a 250cc motor I would highly recommend using quality synthetic oil. This will go a long way to adding MORE LIFE to a 250cc motor.

Have fun planning! :smiliex:

I think you really nailed a couple of things there. Although I have read his book and some of what he has written and really like his attitude and appriciate his knowledge about travelling with motorbike I didnt recognise all he said about the bikes performance and engine. I found the engine extremely smooth - delivering power when you needed it. Low fuel consumption - fuel warning flash turned in at 190 km almost every time, twisty and steep mountain riding using second to forth gir for the most part and highway cruising at 95-100 km/h as well. Which gave a range of approx 250 km and a fuel consumption of around 95 mp imp gallon. However I didnt carry a Whole lot of luggage, just a medium sized top Box and a small backpack.
And as you say - the SW of USA isnt the most suited part of the world to ride this kind of bike (well he kinda pointed that out himself...)

He found the seat annoyingly tall - which I find strange as long as I found it quite low. And I am only 180 cm tall which is around 5.11' and he is 6.1'. I would have liked a tad taller in fact.

Mr Scott also says he miss the power and accelration a bigger bike can give. Of course a 250 ccm hasnt got a blast of power when you twist the trottle compard to bigger bikes as for example 650's. But I have been looking at facts for different bikes and the Crf accelration 0-100 is measured to be 8,6 Seconds. And a Yamaha Tenere 660 is measured to 7,6 0-100. That isnt a whole lot of difference and I can add that a Yamaha WR250R is recorded to 7,3 Seconds 0-100. So it isnt always about size either....

Nowadays I am thinking more and more about the Crf or the Yamaha WR250R as a overlander insted of the Tenere 660 I own for the moment....

Another consideration is price. I know bikes are very expensive in Norway ...
much cheaper in US. The MSRP of the USA versions are:
WR250R : $6,690 usd
CRF250L : $4,699 usd

So, nearly a $2,000 usd difference in favor of the Honda.

If you have TIME ... check out the two threads about these bikes over on ADV Rider, Thumpers section. The Honda thread is most impressive, over 400 pages already in just over a year! The really useful stuff starts at about 300 pages into the thread ... so skip ahead:
The CRF250L Owners thread - ADVrider

If budget is a concern, then I'm guessing you could save $THOUSANDS$ by flying into California, buying your bike and set off from there.

OR ... start in Thailand. I understand shops there are well stocked with many of the best aftermarket extras for the little Honda. Not sure of the price ... but since it is made in Thailand, it may be a bargain?

Problem is ... you may still have problems crossing borders with your own bike. Not sure on this, varies country to country.
Best! bier

I posted a fairly detailed report in this forum about my "experiment" riding a Kawasaki KLX250s during a tour of several thousand km. in the Yukon and Alaska.

In the end my initial enthusiam for serious travelling on this size and type of motorcycle moderated significantly.

You may find the post of interest.

Cheers.

Norm

I have now read that - thanks for sharing. Well - the Yukon-Alaska roads are maybe a place a bigger bike would have comed better through.
And as long you havent done a similar trip with a bigger/other bike you really dont know how you would have liked that....

regarding good quality racks you could try Motorcycle Accessories in Boise ID | Carrier Racks | Cycle Racks they also have a side plate add-on kit for soft panniers. The construction also get support from the main frame as well as the rear sub frame, handy if you plan on carrying lot's of baggage.

I have just purchased a 2015 CRF250L, and as far as racks/soft luggage goes there are now several options.


I ended up with the Mosko Moto "Reckless 80" system. Trying to keep the bike as light as possible, this setup is perfect, as it is completely rackless, and weighs just over 11 pounds in total. Lots of thought has gone into the design, I find it works well.


Reckless 80L System | Mosko Moto

That's what I wished my Giant Loop looked like! Looks amazing! Shame no distributors in the EU :(

Opps... havent paid attention to this thread that I started long time ago.

I ended up taking my Yamaha XT660Z Tenere on my trip. I am currently in Indonesia and man do I wish I took something lighter like the CRF250. At least here i SE-Asia where I have spend a lot of time.

That said the Tenere has been rock solid for more than 60 k kms. But just feels too big in many situations. But soon in Australia where the Tenere probably will feels better.

But next big trip will be on a lighter bike indeed...

The welsh woman Steph Jeavons has been riding her Crf250 around the world, well not entirely finished yet, but her bike has performed very well as far as I know except from a subframe fractur - which was fixed rekatively easy with some welding.

Ride on.....

If you pack light I think a modern, EFI 250 is a fantastic choice. :thumbup1:

For Snakeboy

and all others thinking about a 250ccm dual sport bike as an overlander I can tell you the Honda CRF 250 L will be a suitable choice.

I even returned from a 3 month trip around Europe's south-east. My bike is now 11 month old (got it new in feb. 2015) and got ~30 000km on the clock.
It never had any problem, defect or broken part. Its oil consumption is nearly zero. The engine runs smooth and all-time-ready like at is first day.
The maintenance and consumption are on a minimum.

The only mods I did are classics: protectors at the handle bar and a bigger 11.3 Ltr fuel tank (Acerbis) which I purchased via internet in USA. It was simple to install - the stock fuel pump can be reused - and now range increased to 350km. But then its absolutely dry and you walk ;)

I never touched the suspension or the engine. Some think about modifying the suspension but in my eyes that's not really necessary. If you're used to high performance suspension or your weight is very high - go for it.
I am just 76kg, 1,73m tall and used to old bikes far away from a modern KTM character (means my old japanese bikes run well, consume few oil and don't cost a lot at all):rofl:

The luggage question is really an issue but hey if you ride a small 250ccm bike why travelling with maximum luggage volume? I reduced camping gear and clothes plus small stuff to just 22kg in one medium sized and one small sized moto bag (both cheap) mounted on the bike's tail where you find 4 extended bolts for hooks/ lashings.
So a luggage rack is not a must-have here. Only if you want sidebags - it doesn't work without due to the non-symmetrical shape of the bike's tail.

In some countries like Romania I went offroad into forests, mud, gravel (once a mining site too) and the bike was a great choice! Because it's everywhere so handy and easy to ride but not uncomfortable on the long distances.
My personal record was 607km at one day in Germany and my butt was still okay afterwards. The next day I tried some easy offroad terrain. The third day I went back home again 607km.

What else?
At 2200m altitude the bike's power lowered as usual but the EFI still made the engine run absolutely normal.
Once in Romania I crashed into a car's back at low speed - nothing broke or bent.
I dropped the bike to each side once - nothing broke or bent.
The exhaust pipe is now super rusty due to the humid climate in northern Germany, my home, and the salted streets in winter time.
Except this there ain't no issues about the quality of this low-priced Honda made in Thailand. Pretty much bike for just 4.900 EURO.


Make your life easy! Ride an japanese lightweight dual sport! :thumbup1:
:scooter:

I am thinking mote and more about purchasing a Crf 250 or similar sized bike and turn it to a overlander. After riding from Norway to Australia on a Tenere660 I am convinced that a well prepared 250 would be as good in general. For long highway distances of course not so great but then again I would try to avoid such roads as much as possible. And it cant carry as much weight as a bigger bike but then again - it can be an advantage after all.

A bigger gas tank is a huge advantage as the stock only gives max 250 kms range.
The seat is terrible for longer hours so I would do something with that. Luckily there many solutions for this.
I might do something with exhaust/airfilter/injection to make it perform a little better - there are also many solutions for this. But its not neccesary of course.
Luggage - the Mosko moto soft luggage system seems great. Would like to have such a luggage system.
Suspension - agree with the above speaker. The stock one are quite good. Only if one want high performance a change of suspension is needed.

I am dreaming about circumnavigating Borneo, Philippines and Sulawesi by motorbike one day. Hope to have a Crf 250 ready for that adventure