Honda Crf250 Rally
 

Honda Crf 250 Rally presented at EICMA

A sweet looking bike and a potential new small overlander favorite?

A bit heavy for what it is and the gas tank could have been bigger than 10,1 liters. And why not use the 300 ccm engine from Cbr 300? But definetively sweet looking...

New 2017 HONDA CRF250 RALLY Unveiled at EICMA - ADV Pulse

BMW have also announced a 310 GS, pretty heavy at ~180kg but I'm very pleased with the way the market is going.

https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/globa...65624EN/371770

390 Adventure in 2019 too!

I don't understand what is a positive in this direction? The only positive is that it's not another 1100cc overweight monster. It's a small displacement overweight monster with poor suspension and pointless electronics.

I like electronics.

The weight is insane though, barely a decent lunch different to my Honda NC and that comes with 200 mile tank and an engine so under stresed you could probably double the okl change intervals at a push.

Jumping and band wagons springs to mind.

Andy

If you call 150 kg ready to go bike overweight - what do you call all those bikes who are + 200 kg dry or + 250 dry???
It would have been great with a few kg less - but overweight - nonsence!

Does this bike have more electronics than other similar bikes?

Poor suspension? Have you been riding the bike?
Very few bikes nowadays comes with top end suspension as standard. I think that this bike is probably not an exception. But most Hondas comes with quite decent suspension - and I belive this one will too.

I call those ridiculous. But this, abs. Seriously Honda? They're following BMW's shit buckets and still call it a rally. Oh, and ite won't be ready to ride but under sprung.

Do you consider the suspension on it's brother or Yamaha's 250 top end?

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Come on man, these are budget bikes, complaining about the suspension is a waste of time.

I'm excited because anyone who's had to pick up a bike multiple times or muscle it through some rough ground knows that every kg counts.

Fair enough. But you must think factories pay the same amount for good suspension as you do when in reality they would have to spend 50 bucks more. Let them mark it up 10x. I'd still pay it. There is no excuse to put poor and as such unsafe suspension on bikes with those capital costs.

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Have I called anything top end at all? Where did you get that from?

I meant exactly what I wrote, almost none bikes comes with top end suspension nowadays but for what you pay you get decent suspension. And as Tea wrote above here - its a budget bike. Any bike will need upgrades nowadys to get the full potential out. But for people considering buying 250 cc advbikes I dont think that top end suspension is their highest priority. And anyhow - a light bike will not require so much out of suspension just because its lighter.

My main concerns about these bikes are as mentioned above: could have been a bigger gas tank and it could have been a bigger/more powerful engine, for example the one from Cbr 300. And a bit lighter would also have been a positive thing.

Both Kawasaki, Suzuki and BMW have presented what one can call "mini advbikes" this year - and although the Crf 250 rally could have been better it seems to me as the best bike of those four.

Fair enough. I may have expanded on you referring to decent. But I still think most underplay the importance of good suspension and it's relative cost compared to shit suspension. It doesn't matter if its small or budget. Suspension is of number importance, or it should be. If you look at budget bikes having damper rod forks vs say the Wrr with upside cartridge forks most consider this decent. But the difference between that and good forks is often the shim stack which isn't a high cost item by any stretch of the imagination. Dollars if anything. The shim stack on the suspension of a wrr is woeful. Sure, if you poodle asking you probably never know it. Leaf springswould be adequate. Thing is you never know what you encounter. Could be a bull dust hole which you can't see. I've seen footage of ridiculous rebound on the shock that cause the rider to get launched over the bars. That's not good enough, even for a budget bike. We should demand better. So when a manufacturer with a pedigree like Honda comes with a "special edition" of a current bike that conjures the idea that it's ready for anything, I don't think that ok, which is what it looks like it is, is good enough.

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Old thread - anyone bought one of these and put some miles on it. I'm thinking about it - planning to get a test ride.


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I've only ridden the CRF250L ... not the Rally or ABS versions.
I've read several recent reviews comparing new CRF250 Rally with X300 Versys. One surprising review from guys at Motorcyclist magazine. It pits new Thai made Kawi X300 Versys against new CRF250 Rally. (also made in Thailand)
video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SINyNWwFvFk

The written reviews I've read (many out there now!) puts X300 Versys on top, siting very weak power on the Honda, plus too much weight, poor brakes and way too soft suspension. I was surprised that they like the revvy 300cc Kawi twin engine, but they did! It really out paced the Honda badly.

This Thai made Honda may have had a slight edge off road but NOT MUCH.
Question would be ... which bike has more potential as a RTW ADV Travel bike?

Seems to me, both would need better suspension, better seat and probably lots more. The fact the Honda is so UNDER POWERED to me ... is the deal breaker.

I predict Honda will UP the CRF250 to a 300cc engine straight away. Adding ABS on an ADV Travel bike is also, IMO, a mistake. Simply adds unneeded complexity, cost and weight to an already overweight package.

The X300 Versys also has issues (for me anyway). I don't want that body work and am not fond of super revvy twins that don't deliver much torque off the bottom. But I've only ridden the CRF (standard version), not ridden X300 yet.

Meanwhile, while Honda and Kawasaki are screwing around with these bikes ...
both BMW and KTM are set to sweep in with two very interesting bikes in this mini ADV class.

The Indian made BMW G310GS is most surprising for it's projected low price. Won't see it here in USA until next year. KTM? I haven't followed it, not interested. Both KTM and BMW made in India.

Overall, all these bike are a breath of fresh air on the ADV bike scene. I'm still
shopping for a deal on a WR250R. (but will never sell my DR650!)
bier

Thanks Mollydog

I am pretty sure in Europe all new model bikes over 125cc are legally required to have abs.

Sadly the wr250r is not available in the uk, only the wr250f.

Will watch the market developments with interest - i want a bike to do uk trail riding (proper off road gnarly trails), the TAT (planning for 2020) and some slow paced travel around Europe for trail riding and TET.

Im fortunate enough to have a road bike too (XT1200z) so looking for something lightweight/off road orientated.


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really? which one...:thumbdown:
let's see, crf250l - horrible suspension unless you're riding a football field, nc750x - very bad suspension unless you riding German autobahn,
crf 1000l - bad suspension unless you stick to gravel roads. All recent "adventure" hondas are setup for 165 cm tall guy weighing 60 kg...

I'm aware of new ABS regs. I think (not sure)UK may have got WR250R for a few years? (it was first launched in 2008) ... then Yam cut it off. So, if that is true, you may look round for used one. A great all round dual sport bike.

For "knarly" off road the CRF would not be my 1st pick. Prefer older XT250 Yam, XR or XL Honda (250 or 400) and if you've got the money, a KTM of some kind. Truly knarly off road, I'll take a Two Stroke 250, KTM's make great 2 strokes.

For TAT you'll need a more road oriented dual sport, like the 250's mentioned above or even a 650 single dual sport. TAT is not all that bad, from what I've seen. (only rode bits/pieces of that route)

Unfortunately, the CRF250L suspension is pretty grim, although my short test ride was only on road. But soft suspension is not the end of the world. Add heavier springs, new shock and re-valve front forks.

Getting more power? More of a challenge ... but I know some are swapping in the 300cc CBR engine into CRF frame.
I'm betting Honda upgrades the RALLY to the 300cc motor in a year or two if not sooner. :scooter:

We stumbled across a few CRF250 Rally "grey imports" earlier in the year in PRC by total surprise (was politely asked not to take pictures and must have been really in my friendly weekend mood, as did not take any). Well ~ disappointed somehow as wasn't impressed with overall cheaply build quality and weight-size-power after a test ride... Definitely needs a engine displacement upgrade and some suspension tweaks. Hey ~ its my own personal opinion and feedback, yours may vary ~ over and out....

I maybe in the market for a 250 ADV bike that will handle a trail better than my XR650L.

I like my 650L, but it's certainly no lightweight bike and on tight trails it requires more skill than I have. You also need a step ladder to get onto it. But hey, it's a 20 year old bike.

The 250 Rally is looking good for me. It's not a feather weight (158KG wet) but for a ADV I think that's pretty light weight. The suspension does appear poor but it is a cheap bike.

The 2018 CRF250 Rally comes in at just over £5500 OTR. That's CHEAP !! Very cheap.

The WR250R was £7500 when you could still get one. That's A LOT of money for a bike that isn't that much better.

I can't think of a non-specialist Enduro bike that came with anything but crap suspension. You can't globally sell a bike with suspension that suits every rider from 50 - 150KG. It's an impossible task. So manufacturers don't bother.

Whatever ADV bike you buy, you HAVE to consider spending money getting your suspension re-valved, re-spring or replaced entirely If you're going to push it. If you're prepared to spend £500-£1000 on your suspension then I'm sure you could TRANSFORM the CRF250 Rally into a very nice handling trail bike. The rally has 43mm Showa forks which are up-rated from the 250L so the journey is half way there.

Some will say "My bike's suspension is great out of the box". And for most people who do nothing but roll up and down a motorway with touratech junk bolted to their bikes, It's probably true. But that's not really ADV riding is it. That's touring. Or just giving their Ebay stickers a day out..:innocent:

Rally Raid will no doubt be having a go with the 250 Rally. It will be interesting to see what they do with it.

Actually, for me the WR250R had pretty decent suspension in standard form for my lardy 210 lbs. (95 kg.) with gear. In fact in my research I found many WR riders pretty much leave the forks alone. The rear shock does need a bit of help ... but both shock and forks are better than CRF250L ... standard vs. standard.

Hopefully the Rally version is better. It certainly wins in the looks dept. No denying that. :thumbup1:

Possible good news for those 250 fans in the UK ... Yamaha has NOT discontinued the WR250R. :thumbup1: There will be a 2018 version ...

Apparently Yamaha initially had planned to discontinue the bike but thought better of it (must be a story there..) ... and now it's officially back in
production! :D I wonder if they will begin importing it to UK/EU again?

I would not buy the CRF Rally until you at least get a test ride on the WR250R.
I was really surprised how much better the WR was than the CRF250L ... and not just HP either.

Look them both over carefully, get reviews and rider comments. You may be surprised. I'd sooner have a used WR than a new CRF.
bier

I spent quite a bit of time looking up comparisons of the 250L and the WR250R.

The summary was always that the WR250R was a slightly better trail bike but the motor needed to be revved a lot where the 250L has more low down grunt.

The biggest factor will have to be price. If the WR250R is still around the £7500 mark then I just can't see how they will sell units against the 250L which is around £4800 and the Rally which is around £5500.

That £2000 price difference can buy you a complete over-hall of the Honda's suspension, a 280CC rebore and a host of other goodies. And that would blow the Yamaha out of the water, I'm sure.

It’s a shame that all manufacturers still make bikes that are aimed at buyers who are never going to go anywhere on it, meaning they’ll never know that the tank is too small to give a realistic range, the suspension is crap and probably won’t last the duration of any trip oveseas and the electronics will probably pack in as soon as you’re out of range of your assistance cover.

It seems all you have to do is stick ‘Rallye’ or ‘Adventure’ in the model name, a fancy looking paint job and some vaguely off road tyres and the dreamers will buy it.

A bit pessimistic - although I see your point to a certain extend. The Honda Rally is based on the Crf250L/M who has been out since 2012 in Asia and 2013 elsewhere (me thinks...) cannot remember to have seen that it has been reported much electronic problems with these models for example.

Lets face it - theres probably little or no profit to be made if one or several of the major bike brands to develope a real great Rally model. The cost will be too high, the selling price will be to high and there will not be enough buyers.

Its great that many of the major bike brands are making small displacement adventure bikes - but the problem seems to be that they all come in with too much weight and in general components that are cheap and need immidiate upgrading. Out of these new small displacment adventure bikes I think Honda comes in clearly best. Its the lightest of them all, best offroad suited as it has 21/18 rims, BMW 310 GS and Kawasaki Versus 300 has 19/17 and the Suzuki V-strom 250 has 17/17 - and the Honda is the cheapest afaik. Of course handguards and bashplate on the Honda are plastic crap, 10,1 liters of fuel-capacity is not great and if youre really want to push it offroad you will probably need suspesion upgrading.
And Honda has a CBR 300 model and that bike has a 13 liter gastank - so it is difficult to understand why Honda didnt use the 300 cc engine and made a little more effort making a bigger gastank.

crf250l rally or not is waste of time and money. Pathetic engine, delicate and very heavy bike for 18hp motor with laughable tank range. Honda has lost its edge completely.

I would take wr250r over crf250l or rally any time of the day, and night
although wr is nothing special at all. BTW that rally name is supposed to be a joke by honda,
wonder how they call a real rally bike if they ever make such at all.

If the CRF bikes continue to sell well and if the Rally is also a success, then my prediction would be that Honda will boost the CRF/Rally to 300cc using the CBR engine.

I agree with your other points, it's true sales are too small for OEM to put big money into rally bike. Many say they'd buy it and cry on internet for such a bike ... but when it comes out, and they see the price!!! ... they DON'T buy it! doh
We've seen this scenario repeat OVER AND OVER ... look at the TDM 850 (in USA). A disaster for Yamaha yet the bike did well in France and EU.

I still believe a 300cc version could happen.

Lots of folk have used the 250 crf's for RTW and the rally offers the same just with a bigger tank and flashier looks.

In the uk you can get the standard bike for around 3k, add a few extras and you have a fairly new do it all bike for about 4.5k.

power might be low but mpg is great and they seem to have proved reliable. All the tests I've read of the rally only mention slightly soft supspension off road and lack of power on it. Suspension could be improved as for lack of power not much can be done there but at least it gives you more time to enjoy the view.

:scooter:

just wish they'd give it a 450 with about 50 bhp :scooter::scooter::scooter::scooter:

I don't get why it's even called a "rally"....just looks like a trail bike with a dress on to me...I mean it hasn't even got a big tank.
A low powered starter bike maybe, but with a dress on to give it "cred" from a marketing point of view.....Like one of those 125 varedero things with the dummy cylinder thingy to make them look like a big bike...Looks great but missed the mark like so many do. Husky 701 is the closest thing out there IMHO, be awesome if they did an out the box "rally" version of that, with a big tank/s and some fancy lights, without an out and out rally motor obv. keeping the same service intervals...and they're on top notch w/power stock.

"looks great, but missed the mark"? Huh?
why use a sexist stereotype red herring to dis the bike? It's obviously a novice bike and yes ... the "Dress" is all an attempt to give it Dakar rally look like Honda's race bike. What's wrong with that? Big tank? why? The ****ing thing gets over 70 miles per gallon ... who needs a big tank? doh

I like it and believe it's the perfect bike to bring new riders into ADV riding ... especially Women, whom the industry needs badly. Most are intimidated by huge and heavy BMW's and KTM's ... and few can afford them. So something cheap and cheerful is not a bad direction for Honda to take, IMHO.

Speaking of "afford" ... are you buying that 701 Husky as your travel bike? Planning on riding Enduro round the UK :rofl: And as a travel bike? Uh, no thank you!

If I had a spare $10K USD to spend on a dirt bike that's likely to get the shit beat out of it ... I'd consider it. Travel bike? Not a chance. Who would be stupid enough to take a bike whose service intervals are measured in HOURS ... not miles?

Despite it's small size the Honda Rally could make a decent travel bike for many. Once on 3rd world roads a 250 is just about perfect. Crossing Australia?
Yes, then you'd need a bigger tank ... but that's about the only place in the world where you would need it. bier

[QUOTE=mollydog;575473]"looks great, but missed the mark"? Huh?
why use a sexist stereotype red herring to dis the bike? It's obviously a novice bike and yes ... the "Dress" is all an attempt to give it Dakar rally look like Honda's race bike. What's wrong with that? Big tank? why? The ****ing thing gets over 70 miles per gallon ... who needs a big tank? doh


Yes ....looks great but missed the mark!...Yes that's my opinion of it from where I am standing, yes from my side of the fence, from my current point of view...I don't see why that is a "sexist stereo type red herring to dis the bike"...wtf?...It's just my opinion of it and I don't see how that is "sexist" :rofl:...The CRF250 RALLY isn't considered either male or female is it ? I thought it was just a motorcycle and considered unisex. It would be sexist to label it otherwise I think.
Novice bike ? Could be or just a small trail bike or even just economical transport, a great bike for some people for some journeys. Nothing wrong if someone wants to buy one as a novice bike, it'd be ok for that, they'd probably be better off with the standard model though with less weight and less crap to break if they drop it like the screen it doesn't really need etc., but hey if that's what they want go for it:thumbup1: Not everyone considering one is going to be a novice though and some are actually looking for something more "rally" and with a bit more "go" but without the highly strung engine of an actual competition bike and my posted opinion of it is not as that of someone looking for a novice bike, more of someone considering the "rally" label.
The "dress"...yes!!...It seems we agree is all about giving it a look, which is what I implied and I don't see the point of it much other than that and I quite like the look. It seems to have added 11kg over the standard model for no real gain other than looks though, which is fine if that's all your looking for it looks ok but 11kg is quite a lot on what is already a fairly heavy bike for it's power output.
Big tank??...yes big tank, they've called it a RALLY ! It's being sold next to the standard model, it's 11kg heavier and lots more money it would be nice if they'd squeezed a bit more (not loads, just a bit) capacity into the tank not just (about) 2.5 litres more than the standard bike.The tank is adequate for most people and most situations for that bike so maybe you don't need a big tank and yes it may do 70 to the gallon but it only holds (about) 2.2 gallon, Honda's own website has conflicting information on tank size. It's not always about what you need either, IMHO, sometimes it's about what you want, especially when it comes to bikes and girls !...:oops2: that sounds little bit sexist, my apologies I don't mean it that way :rofl:

I like it too, it's not bad looking, it will be reliable, it's not expensive. I don't want one though, it's not for me or what I do. I agree with the above too mostly, although I don't see it as a big deal over the standard model. Whether or not it's the perfect bike to bring women into ADV riding or if the industry needs them badly is not something I've considered when thinking about possible future bikes for myself but it would be good for that I guess.
I think they should probably have called it something other than "rally" though, I think it waters down the meaning of it.
Yes some are intimidated by large bikes and some can't afford them...although they are selling in quite some numbers.

Errrr....well I'm thinking of getting one yes, I've been looking into them and what's available for them as much as I can for a while with a view to going that way in the future. I actually went to look at a 9 month old one with next to no miles on it at a bargain price that came up near me last week, first chance I've had to see one in the flesh...I'm still thinking maybe I should've bought it but the timing isn't right for me at the moment really. If I go for one it would have to be a 2017 onward because I'd want the motor with the extra balance shaft.
Enduro ??..I don't know who mentioned enduro (not me) so I don't quite know where your coming from but no I've no intention of using one for entering any enduro events.
And as a travel bike ?....err yes, that would be the plan that's why I'd want the later one with the smoother motor...So...Uh, yes thank you !

Yeah you'd have to be stupid to take a bike like that, nice to know that with the twin oil pumps and twin balance shafts the new 701 has got SIX THOUSAND MILE SERVICE INTERVALS then...how many hours is that.:rofl:

Yes I agree..perfect for many not everybody...and not if you you maybe wanted to get a kick out of what you ride and you didn't get that from a fairly heavy low powered bike (some would)..and not if your travels often involved doing a fair bit of fairly quick road or ,dare I say it, motorway work to get where you want to be..and nope, probably wouldn't need a bigger tank, not huge say 15 litres....but you might just want one....you know just so you've got it covered for when you get to the filling station and they're waiting for the tanker doh and you can think oh it's ok I'll make the next one.:D

You referred to the bike as wearing "a Dress". This not so subtle put down alludes to Women and not in a nice way ... like the Rally is a wimpy, weak, a "girl's bike". That's what I got from that comment. So yes, SEXIST, IMHO.

But no big deal. Move on.

I agree with most of this and the above as well. It's a shame it picked up weight but looks are often more important than function ... not that I 100% agree but that's fact of life: LOOKS MATTER. :D

I agree ... it could use an extra gallon. But often when folks say BIG TANK ... they mean one of those massive Heinrich tanks on old GS's ... 11 gallons or something.

This would ruin the bike, IMO. But will agree it needs about 1 extra gallon. If doing Australia or remote parts of Africa, then you'll have to figure out carrying more fuel. An extra gallon would bump up range to over 200 miles plus. Not too bad. bier

Mumbo, you really need to learn how to do quotes. So simple, hit the quote box and go from there. Makes reading your posts MUCH easier.

According to latest news from big OEM's, Women are now on the radar. Better late than never. But may be too late now ... OEM's are in a bit of a panic at this point ... plus, the Chinese are coming fast. :help smilie:
The Tide has shifted here in USA regards BIG ADV bikes. (mostly BMW GS's)
Many riders now going smaller, lighter. Older riders especially are now looking at smaller, lighter bikes if doing more off road. bier

Aaah that's what you meant !! Well it wasn't intended that way or even thought of. I wouldn't have got what you did from it and I don't agree it even implies all that. It wasn't a put down alluding to women or to in anyway imply it's a girls bike or whatever, I just meant it was the standard model dressed up with some plastics and not much different underneath. I suppose I could have said "in a suit" but then that would be gender specific too wouldn't it ? I suppose I should have said "in some fancy clothes" just in case anyone was going to twist it around a little from what I intended.
By the way didn't you say it was a great bike for attracting women to ADV. riding, some would say that implies the "Rally" is a "girl's bike" etc. etc. but not me bier

I thought I was doing ? I deleted the end quote box when I was deleting some text on my earlier posts that cocked it up a bit I realised afterwards.

Almost 50 !
 

Yeah ..one more and I'll have fifty posts in seven & a half years...I suppose I should be an expert :)

Yea ... we're all experts here! :rofl: Welcome aboard and hope you can post more. HUBB needs more activity and intelligent comments about bikes out there.

bier

My vote is for a CRF450 Rally. Having ridden a hopped up CRF250 Rally prototype with improved suspension, it needs more power! Keeping it no more than another 10 pounds would be fantastic - a great off-road and travel bike.

Note that I'm a big fan of small bikes for off-road, but for a bike to do both off-road and travel well you either need a very light 250 with a powerful engine, or a lazier=longer-lasting 450, and I definitely vote for the 450 version.

Crf500l......
 

Ahaaa....!!!


Loving this thread cus it compounds my decision to build me a CRF500L and yes I have upgraded both ends of the suspension and will be increasing the fuel capacity.
Intended use of bike..?? Lots of off-roading and some overlanding/travel, i'll start a thread at some point.

Yes for sure but lets hope if they do bring out a CRF450 "Rally" it comes out in the form of a CRF450 "L" and stays cheap and cheerful with the long service intervals and reliability etc. There will be a wait for it though even if it does happen. Honda are now thinking of building a mid range Africa twin apparently, maybe a 650, although they say they are not working on it yet :

Honda Africa Twin 'little brother' on the way | MCN

That's something they would probably release before thinking of any 450 "Rally" I think....Maybe when or if they do build a 450 they could call it the CRF450 "Africa" and consider over landing as a design priority rather than "Rally replica" ? But it's doubtful, marketing men and stylists will have the final say probably...I love the "rally" styling but the bike many of us are looking for would also have the stuff people do after purchase when doing their "overlanding" conversions designed in. It's a thing many love doing and rightly so and it's amazing what some people achieve with their conversions but it can also be a pain when such things as a bigger or extra fuel tanks or whatever just aren't available or there are big compromises in fitting them such as using up airbox space etc. Nowadays there are also so many insurance implications when modifying from stock too and allsorts of regulations regarding fuel tanks in Europe. It's always going to be about cost though, or styling and competing with other manufactures on price, weight, performance etc. and it's a niche market. It's a bit unbelievable that some bikes come without even a stone guard on the radiator or oil cooler though, and even worse when (BMW) fitting one can affect warranty because of reduced cooling of the oil filter ! WTF? Intended use? Build it with one then! (I've got a BMW btw.). Some are having a good go though, there are some amazing bikes available. I'm looking for a change of bike in the not too distant future and at the moment (while we wait for Honda and their 450) I can't stop myself from having the Husky 701 Enduro at the top of my list. It's approx. 145kg dry (CRF250 Rally is 157kg "Kerb") 74hp :funmeteryes: good service intervals of 6000 miles, a 13ltr tank and good economy, the build quality looks good, its got a map for crappy fuel and it's well suspended with white power both ends. Yes the seat is apparently torture and a bigger tank would be really nice as it would be if some of the extra crash n bash protection was factory fitted but I think it's very nearly there. It's about £10,000 cheaper than a GS1200 ADV. and about £3000 more expensive than the CRF250L Rally. So pricing is not crazy I guess, it's crept up £300 for 2018 but hey.......Any thoughts ??
I've never owned a Husky or a KTM, Jap. stuff is hard to beat in some areas but I think Euro stuff has come a long way...hasn't it?

any basic plan yet? Are you squeezing a 500 twin into the CRF250L chassis?
... or? I'm sure you've seen the build threads on ADV Rider on this? I've never seen one in person ... but if done right could be a GREAT bike. Hope you can
keep us dreamers updated on your progress. :D:D:D

Good article! and MCN (IMO) have got to pretty much right.:thumbup1:
Agree, Honda will most likely do smaller AT at some point ... When? :innocent:

And hopefully a 450 Rally of some kind will appear as big brother to Made In Thailand CRF250L Rally. Why none of the big four have come out with a street legal, dual sport version of their 450 race bikes is a mystery to many.

GREAT Africa Twin sales means a smaller AT could, IMO, become a reality. Will Honda wait another year to see in sales continue strong? Which way they go anyone's guess. (500 twin? new 650 twin? 750 twin from current slug?)

IMO, Honda should take the 500, Hot Rod, increase HP, cut weight. But if they go with all new 650, would work too ... but likely would steal sales from the BIG Africa Twin. A lighter, cooler 500 could be the way. A 650 may still be too heavy, IMO. Weight is very expensive to get rid of.

Agree, KTM/Husky consortium doing really well. Much better reliability. That's why I bought a near new 2017 KTM Duke 690.

Didn't need it but deal too good to pass up! :mchappy: Way better than my first Duke ll 640 back in 2001. Fun tight back road hooligan bike.
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-.../i-zSpqNKs.jpg
KTM Duke ll from 2001

KTM are discounting Duke's but NOT the 350's or 690 dual sports or their Husky line of dual sport bikes. All super expensive here in USA. Maybe you get better deal in UK? I doubt it! :smartass:

Those kits you linked to a few posts back are great ... but have you seen the prices? :eek3: Add that to "on the road price" and it's quite a lot of money for a dirt/Travel/ADV bike that's likely to get beat up in a year of travel.

As some very experienced riders of many KTM's have said on other threads ... "a well set up DR650 can be about 85% as good as a new KTM 690 ... and is BETTER for fast highway riding."

It also costs almost nothing to maintain ... it's very hard to break. My own 60K mile, 10 year old DR650 proves this. 5 trips to Baja tip and back, plus lots more like rides out to Colorado, Utah and all round Nevada.

So, for travel ... IMO, it's hard to beat bikes like KLR, DR's, XR650L. Not fun enough? Only those who've never ridden a good one would say that!

But all that said, I love bikes and look forward to see the new ones coming.
BMW's new 850, KTM's new 700 and Yam's new T-7 all look promising ... especially the KTM.

I'm going smaller and currently have eyes on Yamaha WR250r ... but if Honda brought out a Rally 450 ... I'd be on board in a New York minute. I'd love riding the light Husky 350 or KTM 350. But fast is, for me, both are TOO TALL, too finicky and very expensive. Fact is, for travel you simply don't need a World Class capable Enduro bike. Some dirt ability is required but much depends what the rider seeks out. bier
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-.../i-B9xF2L8.jpg
KTM 690 Duke - 2017


https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycl...P1010485-L.jpg
DR650 in California Sierra ... thousands of miles of fire roads and trails.
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-...Rz4fJzF-XL.jpg
chilling in the shade in Baja. :Beach:

Hey Molly..on my phone so sorry for any typos.
It wasn't me who posted the links to those kits, it was Tbr china I think over on another thread..I just "liked" his post...but yes ..exy..still if you want it and its gonna be a keeper.
The husky is not the same bike as the ktm 690 but similar..It's def not a world class enduro bike either..it'a dual sport..a modern one yes, with some quality kit and real off rd ability yes, looks trick yes but it's a dual sport it doesn't need a piston every six hrs. It comes with passenger footrests in the extras box included!The 17 model is a diff. story to the single balance shaft previous models too...its 74hp too and the ktm 690 is still 67hp like last yrs Husky..so probs not got the extra balance shaft either.??..and Klr's & Dr's are ok though they are, are not really what I'm interested in..I don't envisage any bike I purchase getting too "beat up" in a yr of use either if looked after...I don't intend taking it around an mx track!.....good review of the Husky here if you fancy a read of it , good online bike magazine too, you may or may not know about :

Seven things we learnt about the 2017 Husqvarna 701 Enduro | Brake Magazine

bier

That's me on ADVrider under different name Flipflopdog CRF500L build thread #4 its just I cant post pics from my work server for some reason..!!

:offtopic:
Nice to see a new publication with Simon Pavey's son at the helm! :thumbup1:
I've seen the Husky 701 in person. Would have had a sit, but too tall.

With a 36" seat height, it's too tall for me. In my Enduro race days I could have handled it but now, if it were loaded up, might be a bit tough and embarrassing.

The 701 Husky engine got exact same upgrades as my 2017 690 Duke got back in 2016. HP and torque figures vary slightly from publication to publication, my '17 690 duke is listed at 73 HP/ 55 ft. lbs. So, pretty close all round between Husky 701 and KTM 690 Duke.

Basically, KTM did a whole new engine in '16 and that is what is in the Husky 701 with minor differences.
Biggest change is balancer shaft arrangement for smoother running. My Duke is certainly better than earlier versions or my old 2001 Duke ll, but it's clearly still a THUMPER!

It's got a ton of power for a single and on a twisty road can keep pace with just about any bike or rider ... even guys on 1290's. At some point ... it's all about the rider. A fast guy could really rip it up on my 690. Mine has a Nitron shock, still need to do Andreani fork kit ... forks not great in standard form.

The 690 Duke also comes with the fancy TFT dash that the Husky doesn't have. ... which in bright Sun sometimes does not read well. In low light, it's amazingly BRIGHT! (too bright?)

As the review in Brake mentioned, that Husky will not be great as a travel bike as delivered. They didn't go into details, but I could see making it RTW ready might get expensive.

3.4 gallon tank, not enough. I spent $150 for my IMS 5.2 gallon tank on my DR650. Range up to about 220 miles plus reserve. A minimum for a travel bike, IMHO.

Other issue is rear sub frame and luggage. I'm sure the bike is an absolute DELIGHT to ride and if it could be cost effective to trick it out for travel ... then I might be on board. But for me, I'm thinking lower, lighter and CHEAPER! :smartass:

But for your use around England, seems like the perfect Hooligan weapon, making punters on sports bikes look foolish in the twisty bits ... just remember to watch your (VIBEY!) mirrors as they Whistle by you at 160 mph once back on the straight roads. :angel:

My Duke is a lot of fun, but I'm probably going to sell. Only had it two months! doh (yes, I am truly an idiot!)

I'm just not the young aggressive rider I once was. How I made it out of that period alive, is quite a miracle ... but a story for another day.

I just can't use what the 690 has anymore. I know it's there ...
no way can I get there most of the time.

I do love a lot of things about the bike: Handling is very good ... but forks need work. Stock seat is very good too ... OK for at least two hours before a break needed. (Corbin seat on my DR650 is good for 4 hours easily)

Fuel economy is remarkably good. Seat height is VERY low at just 32.5 inches. Perfect for me.

But not ideal for travel and not great fast highway cruising all day riding with a group of Hooligans on 1200cc bikes averaging 80 mph for a full tank worth of miles.
bier

:offtopic:

OK, back ON TOPIC and more about the CRF Rally! Enough of these BIG KTM's and Huskies!

I think you're wrong here, quite a few people took so called race bike for
very long trips like you would regular travel bike succeeded with no problems.
If you're not racing service interval actually can be measured in miles or kilometers and it's not that bad because they changed oil every 2000 km
or 1200 miles so it's doable. You get instead very light bike to deal with on the road. I was afraid about this aspect as well until I own my ktm 500 exc which appeared to be very reliable and adventure capable machine.

BTW, crf250l doesn't look good at all, looks weird at most.

You are correct about how reliable the KTM 500EXC appears to be. But it's still early days with only a couple guys taking the 500 on RTW type rides. I'm sure more will follow ... and good luck to them.

We all travel in different ways with different priorities.

But its true, traveling on a race bike will mean you can likely extend service intervals out quite a bit, as traveling is usually not hard on the machine. If the basic bike is reliable then could be done. So, instead of 500 mile interval could be pushed up to maybe 2000 miles? More?

But is this ideal? :innocent:
Most raced based bikes are not well set up for carrying luggage. Some don't have large fuel tanks available, unless you spend A LOT on money. Many carry Rotopax or Bladders ... I'm not a fan of either of these methods.

Rear sub frames may not exist or quite weak. So not idea for panniers weighing 30 kg. or so. ... plus a top bag and other crap travelers tend to pack.

Some travelers like to camp (to save money I guess?) and LOVE to pack up their bikes like the Beverly Hillbillies. Race based bikes may not be ideal for the perennial over packers so common in our world. :oops2:

My worry would be if you get yourself into a location where you can't find top quality synthetic oil, as required for many high end race bikes like the KTM 500.

And in addition, the rider will need the skills and tools to do the maintenance on the road. The KTM is easy ... a good thing.

But some bikes are more complex to do self service ... and they are not even race based machines. (BMW GS's, Ducati Multistrada, KTM 1290) Most require dealership computers to plug in for diagnostics.

I like the looks of both the CRF250L and Rally. Weird? Not at all. It's just not that different from dual sport bikes 30 years ago. doh so, both good and bad.

That's not quite what your opinion was earlier when I suggested the CRF250 "rally" could've used a bigger tank Mollydog...it was more like :
"Big tank? why? The ****ing thing gets over 70 miles per gallon ... who needs a big tank?"
Hey ho...only joking bier....yeah :offtopic: I know, I don't think it matters anymore though..:funmeteryes:..do you ?

Good point ... but the reason I made that comment was because the CRF gets about 70 MPG ... whereas, my 10 year old, 60K mile DR650 gets only about 45 MPG on average. doh Worse if plugging through deep sand.
bier

Yes your absolutely correct, you, me, anybody can do just about any journey they want to with any bike. They manage to get comp. bikes to the end of the Dakar with less time for maintenance than on a road & trail trip. It's a case of where there's a will there's a way. True too you don't have to be stupid to do it either, crazy maybe, like crazy in love with "that" bike ! Or just crazy with a passion to do it. Yes it's true too that if your not racing stuff can be pushed out a lot on the mileage....This guy is one who is proving it :The Rolling Hobo (respect) But it does depend what you want from it, and all that work can detract from trip unless you want it that "hardcore". I'm a great believer in horses for courses and if your not racing you don't really need a race bike for most trips, although if you just want it that's fine. I used to race (road) 250's TZ's & RS's...loads of work!..Loved it at the time...Now ? I can't be arsed with all that when I'm on holiday, right now I'm struggling with the thought off going back to a chain drive instead of a shaft and all that adjusting etc.:rofl:
Everybody is on a different journey or wanting to be and we're all at different points in our lives and our journeys, we're all different heights, abilities, age's and we all have our own idea of the perfect bike..and even that will change for each of us unless we keep doing the same old thing. I used to think my R1 was perfect for me I put so much thought, reading up and test rides into which bike would be the best for me before I bought that bike, and it was awesome at the time but now I've got a BMW:rofl:. It's been almost perfect for what I've used it for too but now I'm looking at Husqvarna's because I'm thinking of changing what I do and where I do it..again. Some choose their "ride" because it's a gimmick, unusual etc. and it will sell books or whatever, I'm not really a fan of that but I can't say I blame them, there are so many at it nowadays. Generally though my thoughts are ride what you like, doesn't matter to me but don't presume I'm on the wrong bike because it doesn't fit your criteria... So if you fancy all those oil changes when you could be having a beer round the campfire feel free..I won't be jealous..I will when you hit that fire road and get to "let it loose" thoughbier

Yeah but the CRF's only got 2.2 gallons so even at 70 mpg ..150/160 miles (worse if plugging through deep sand) falls well short of the 220 miles minimum IYHO :laugh:
C'mon..just give me this one :rofl:

No they said this :

"7. The potential is there to be an incredible world travel bike.
In it’s stock form it’s less than perfect for hitting the road. The wind protection is minimal, the seat can be found wanting and the 14 litre tank is, well, only 14 litres. It’s not intended to be a travel bike. It’s a dual sport but there is the foundation for something incredible.

When most super keen adventure travellers list what their ideal bike would have the only things missing from the 701 are luggage space, protection and fuel range. While they may not be incredibly easy to solve, it has been done. With a little modification and some creativity the 701 Enduro has the potential to be truly outstanding."

Potential to be an incredible world travel bike !!

Foundation for something incredible !!

Potential to be truly outstanding !!.....mmmh..sounds good :D

full synthetic is nit required, I use same oil as for my xt660z tenere, motul semi synthetic. Regarding luggage and frame, motonomad guys used fully loaded caoyote giant loop bag with no problem :)