new Africa Twin or F800GS?
 

Hi,
I'm returning to adventure riding after a break and I am on the market for a new bike. I have tested tiger 800XCx already but I didn't like it at all, also tested DL650 XT which was way better but not dirt oriented. Finally I rode F800GS and I quite liked it but new crf1000l is to be released soon and wonder if not to wait and try that too. What do you think, will new AT be too heavy based on specs posted already on honda sites? I really prefer offroad and bad road :) riding but don't like very light bikes, planing trip to Mongolia soon so bike has to be reliable, torquey engine, high ground clearance and good range.
thanks

I'd wait to see what the new AT has to offer, price will be it's major consideration and unfortunately they still have not given it a decent sized fuel tank so distance will be a bit limiting, otherwise it is shaping up to be a good bike. You can't beat Honda reliability and build quality.

If you've got that kind of cash to buy, personally I'd get the new AT over any of the bikes you mentioned.

that's what I am inclining to but the AT is kinda expensive for throwing around...

Tremens, where do you live? its good to know which market you will be buying a bike in, as some bikes are not available in different markets, take a moment and fill in your location in your profile!

Im interested to know what you didn't like about the 800XCx?

The new AT looks good, but I couldn't recommend buying the first year of a new production run, there are bound to be some niggles with it, unless you have time for them to work themselves out and be addressed before you head to Mongolia.

If you want a bigger bike, then its hard not to recommend the 800 GS Adventure, with its 24 litre tank, though be aware that some owners have found the rims are made of cheese..... if you don't mind a thumper, the XTZ660 has good range and is physically quite big (and heavy)

Also, if you are handy with the wrenches and don't mind buying an older model, a late, low kilometre KTM 990 Adventure would be a lot of fun :)

I rode the f800 for a year, but found it "buzzy" on road right at the speeds I wanted to cruise

I find the first and even second year of a new models bike's are generally a bit unfinished.

This is where they let YOU find all the problems.

If you really want the Africa twin why not wait a year until ride reports are back in and maybe pick up a nearly new one for £2000 less than new.

One of the problems with the F800GS and its F650GS twin and F700GS twin variants is that it has a close ratio gearbox which is fine for a road sports bike but not ideal for a dual sport. Consequently BMW had to choose between having all the ratios biased towards low (F800GS) or biased towards high (F650GS).

If you had changed the F800GS 16/42 sprockets to the 17/41 of the F650GS twin you would have found it much nicer for road cruising. I once did 960 miles in 23 hours on the F650GS twin from Poland to the UK (with the help of an AirHawk saddle).

Hi Gipper,
Regarding Tiger 800 XCx I didn't like fly by wire, I didn't like high pitch, annoying engine sound, disconnected engine from throttle feeling, lack of torque at low revs, heat coming to my heap from the left side etc etc
I live in Poland at the moment BTW and I don't see anything interesting on the market except F800GS and xt660z but the tenere is not available somehow in here this year. That's why I'm looking forward to new AT. If not, BMW will be the one.

I test rode a Tiger 800XC a couple of years ago and I found the throttle was pretty bad - the fact that the dealer had not bothered to set up the bike properly and adjust a bunch of slack out of the throttle too did not help, I agree it feels snatchy and disconnected.

Its bottom end torque can feel pretty weak compared to a twin, a lot of owners drop a tooth on the front sprocket or increase rear sprocket size, but it is super smooth at highway speeds and loves to rev :)

Good luck!

if you felt tiger cable throttle was bad then I can assure you now it's worse with the new fly by wire one...

I rode an AT today
 

I rode the CRF1000l today and I am impressed. It was only the base bike but I liked it much more than my r1200GSA - 2012. It was relatively balanced. Excellent application of power. The sound it makes is most addictive also.

I would stay with the base bike. I rarely ride on the tar so ABS, auto,
and anything else that involves electronics and flaps is not a great option in the dirt.

Am definitely getting one.

AT all the way. I know the model is new and some issues are bound to show up, but the AT should beat the 800GS on all fields relating to build quality and longevity

But look at the price- here an AT is upto 25% cheaper than an 800GS (depending on model and specs), so a no-brainer. If you have to pay more for an AT- apart from personnel preferences, is it really that much better in relation to the price difference?

The AT is very easy to ride off-road, well balanced and lots of torque. Not as fuel efficient as the GS IMO (or not mine anyway) and mixed offroad riding only gives me a range of only 250-280km.

But at $300 cheaper than a 800Xcx Tiger and $1500 for the top 800GS compared to the DCT, its the best available at the moment

F800GS vs Africa Twin.
 

I finally got to test drive a manual Africa twin this weekend. I wish they had the automatic but they did not.
I have a 2013 F800gs that I bought it new. I have to say, Africa twin kick ass!
Way more powerful and smooth. Felt at the same weight and hight.
To do 90mph on F800GS you have to install a Handle bar stabilizer. I could not believe how smooth and no vibration the Africa twin was a t 90mph. Night and day. I am just holding up for October to see if BMW will have a new model, like an F900 or something, because as it is, just change color scheme on F800GS as they have done in the last 3 years will no longer be enough!
I really want to test drive the automatic next, but I think it is time to have another Honda! For sure, this is my last year owning an F800gs, even though it has being a fantastic bike, I am sure the Africa twin will be just more fun.

Unfortunately I see more and more complains on different forums about new AT build quality and finish. Kinda deal breaker for me at this price range.

Please direct me to those complains. Because for the past 8 months I have heard only brilliant reviews. Tarnished rim spokes that are changed under warranty is all I heard on the negative side.

If I had to go around the world, I will pick the new AT over a GS any time. The AT is a much simpler bike, and easier to fix... BTW I have two Hondas (Africa Twin) and two BMWs (GS and KRS) in my garage. So I am not biased... ;-)

check this out:
Africa Twin: Honda - qualité des matériaux?

and this:
Honda CRF1000L-Problems - Honda - XL Adventure Motorcycle Community

if you look more you'll find, even this:
http://www.adventurebikerider.com/me...16-07-29-2.png

http://www.africatwinforum.com/forum...p;d=1459263434

and no, these are no single cases.

I think it's time for me to check out Kawasaki and Suzuki as looks to me they didn't cut corners yet.

All modern bikes suffer from corrosion, peeling paint and general poor finish. Have a look at a 12 month old BMW. Paint flaking everywhere and every fastener is fury and discoloured..

Bikes are made to last 2-3 years now.

The market has changed from making quality machines to throw away fashion accessories which onky need to look good for the duration of their warranty or PCP finance arrangement.

Bmw and honda used to use quality fasteners but now they use A2 stainless which is the lowest grade you can get. Paint is water based and so thin its almost transparent..

Its what you get these days. I have 20 year old bikes thst have been left in the rain that lool better than some 6 month old ones

I own 2 F800GS's and we took them to over 10 countries. I have also had the Africa twin on a 48 hour test run (pretended I was trading in, really was just nosey and had nothing to do for a weekend).

Honestly?

Neither bike is a hugely capable adventure machine. At best they are sports tourers with sharper styling to suit the looks. The F800 weighs a absolute ton as soon as you get off the pavement. The AT was 20kg's heavier. They are no more dirt worthy than any other 200kg road bike with knobbled tyres.

The 2 F800's we have, have showed a number of faults. Failed fuel pump on one in France, failed water pump seal on the other in Norway. There are other known faults too.

The AT seems to have a stronger reputation, but it felt notably less capable than F800 to me.

If I had to choose i'd go 800 again.

If I was doing it all over, i'd go KTM690. The reliability issues are no worse and the costs are no greater. But at least you can ride it up a sand bank without a backup crane to lift it up again when you fall.

Check here instead.
Africa Twin 1000cc - CRF1000L - ATOC-Moto - Africatwin Transalp Owners Club

You'll find very few of the problems you have highlighted. And bikes are usually 8 months old.

this issue with bending rear shock upper bolt which may result in frame damage disqualified f800gs to me and showed again bmw good engineering is a history.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_-VFDAlAo8

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k3...ockBolt002.jpg

that's what I figured, next bike will be ktm.

Hej guys, I rode a new AT a couple months ago, very comfy, and blistering quick in city's and lane splitting, however i found it had some issues that took me by surprise, at a green light, and with lots of cars and trucks behind me the power completely shut off with just a bit of gravel under the rear wheel, where on the highway above 75mph i felt it became instable.
After that i took it off road, the dealership told me to, in deep sand, and again i was dissapointed, the old RD07 would run circles around this bike in this department, and the F800 probably would to, except for power and comfort.
First i thought it was just my opinion, but the same week i read some test reports in some British magazines sharing my opinion.
The original Africa Twin was just an awesome bike, the new one only shares its name.

Maybe Honda will adres the issues, i rode the bike in the beginning of januari.

Different folks, different strokes...

Some people will love something on a bike and for the next person it will be a deal breaker. (E.g. I find the seat very comfortable, but other people go on and on on how uncomfortable the seat is). I think every person has to way up their options and requirements and see what works for them.

I tried to do a review of the new vs. the old AT a while ago from my perspective. For me, the new AT is better and more capable in almost every way compared to the 800GS. The 690? Yes, very capable off-road, but not as comfortable on the bitumen.

The new AT is not as 'great' as the reviews say. It's a good bike, but has its shortcomings (same as any other bike). Unfortunately, its a bit hard to sometimes separate honest opinions from hype- e.g. die-hard fans will call any negative reporting as bike-bashing, whilst refusing to acknowledge improvements can be made. Whereas others will make a massive issue over IMO small things like spokes tarnishing.

The CRF1000 was made at a price, and it shows in some places. My biggest gripe with the new AT: rear suspension needs work. Very simple to solve, but adds to the price.

Different countries and different situations - In Australia, the new AT is cheaper than the 690 KTM, 800GS and Tiger 800XCX. So an excellent alternative/option and cheaper to boot. And Honda has a much broader support system here than the European brands. In other countries it might be different, but here in Australia (which never had the old AT), I think it is a game changer.

I love my DCT, but won't get rid of my RD07 :-)