If buying in the UK, no question the little XT's and TTR 250's are the go. I've heard many positive reviews on these simple, tough and reliable bikes. :thumbup1:

You can buy a new XT250 here in USA but they aren't all that cheap used.

The service interval for Oil change at 3K miles is about right ... and I'd follow that number for most dual sport singles. (including my DR650) With quality
synthetic oil you may push that interval in mild, slow riding.

One note on the WR250R is valve check interval. 26,000 miles. :D
Most find valves in spec at that time. But not as easy to do as on your TT, XT's or DR650!

Water cooled. As rider of DR650 (Oil/Air cooled) I can relate to this, love simplicity of air cooled.

So yes, Water Cooled can be a negative, but not so much if you add radiator guards. In all my reading up on WR I've come across very few busted Radiators due to crash damage ... but of course ... can happen.
You can also bust a hose, have a water pump fail. Rare, but could happen.

Power: Yes, for a stock 250, WR is not too bad, but there are many 250's that make more power. Most KTM or Husky put out more HP ... but not reliable going 30,000 miles without much care. And, of course all two strokes make more power too.

The good news on the WR is that it makes fair power but still returns good economy. (60 to 70 MPG, depending)

Weight:
The WR is lighter than my DR650 ... but it's not all that light compared to some other more race oriented bikes. In fact, I'm thinking your TTR may weigh less than the WR250R?? (not sure) Good news for me is that the WR "feels" lighter than my DR650 (in fact, WR is about 70 lbs. lighter than my DR650!) and I can actually lift it up easily! :D

Generator output is a big plus to me too. My DR only puts out 200 Watts total.

Comfort:
I'll add this in. For a stock bike, the WR is quite comfortable. Add a seat pad or Seat Concepts ... and you've got close to all day comfort. I was shocked how OK the stock seat felt.

But the real advantage (IMO) the WR250 has over many other 250's in the class is suspension and chassis design. For a stock 250 the suspension is not too bad and chassis really handles well.

The rear shock needs work but the forks only need a lighter oil and some careful adjustment. The shock is harsh ... needs a re-valve. But most ALL bikes need suspension work, so no surprise. WR Handles rough tracks better than many other bikes ... even larger, fancy $$$$ bikes. Tracks straight over ruts, goes where you point it. Very easy to ride off road, no stress.

Cost:
Even in USA/Canada the WR250R is quite expensive, either new or used.
But if you're in for the long haul, probably worth the price if you use the bike
as intended.

bier

A bunch of my friends have gone to the WR 250s now, most of these guys are into their 60s and looking for something a little lighter.. I helped a friend set his up for Adventure by adding the bigger of the 2 IMS tanks which really extended the reach of the bike and I also helped him with luggage ideas..

I rode one up a very steep rocky climb for another friend who had tired himself out and the bike did ok, even for my 200+lbs.. The WRs that my group have picked up used here usually run between $4000-$5000 CAD and are low mileage examples... I could of picked up a good luggage equipped unit last year with low mileage for $4200.. Personally I am waiting for something in the 400CC range, if Yamaha puts out something similar in that size I would be all over it..

In B.C. it costs the same to insure a 400 as it does a 250 so it makes sense to go with the bigger displacement and have a less stressed engine for loaded up travel... A couple guys from Vancouver are touring some of the rough bits of the planet on a pair of the WRs and have done OK, though at times they were wishing for more poke... One of the bikes suffered a meltdown at around 30,000 KM and required a full engine rebuild, the other I believe is still on original engine parts.. All in all a good bike that could be a great bike with 30% more displacement..

Yea, it could use more poke for sure. And yes, better old guy bike! (I hope)
Yamaha fans been begging for a WR450R for years. So far, Yamaha has not responded. :(

I believe it's because they can't sell a 450 as easily in World Markets like they can the 250. USA/Canada too small a market to justify big investment.

There are thousands of posts on ADV Rider about WR250R engine upgrades, with several kits available up to about 330cc. (at least 3 different kits out there that I've read about) I've read at least 10 reports from guys who've done it.
Mostly all good feedback.

I've no idea how much better a 330cc kit would be ... and of course guys who did it rave about how much better it is. Natural bias? :cool4:
it's hard to know just how much better it might be. :innocent:

But to me, more important issue would be ... is the engine reliable with an over bore? Using a non stock piston/ring set? I seriously question critical NON Japanese internal engine parts. Seen a few failures on other bikes.

Fine for the Weekend warrior, but maybe not for the RTW traveler? :confused:
I'd need convincing to go the overbore kit route ... but it could happen I guess.

Will be interesting to see what bikes in this CC range come along. I'm betting Chinese OEM's have they're eye on things in this segment. But poor marketing and basically no one trusts Chinese bikes, no matter how cheap. Shame, cause I know a few are far better than a few years ago.

Our moto reality is changing fast. Who knows what is coming down the line.

Not so much a concern for me, I buy used ... so limited to established, proven ... and not too expensive bikes. WR250R has been around unchanged since '08 with a very solid reputation. bier

yeah, yamaha and honda suck big time recent years (suzuki, kawaski are not better) Currently I'm about to get to KTM 500 exc because nothing to choose from Japanese companies. As you said we asked for lighter ~500cc dual sport bike and we got nothing from ymaha. From honda we got even bigger, heaver Africa Twin :thumbdown:

The KTM 500 is an amazing bike! A good friend has one and he is blown away every time he rides it. It is not the perfect travel bike ... but can be adapted if you are willing to put in the effort.

I rode it briefly ... loved it .. but the power was a bit overwhelming for this old,
retired dirt bike guy. Good news was the handling was stellar ... but I could never, ever use all that power.

Sadly, ALL the big four Japanese companies currently have excellent 450 MX bikes which all could be modified to great 450cc ADV Travel bikes.

Honda and Yamaha both did this with their CRF-L and WR250R bikes. Why not do the same with their 450's? Everyone has been asking this same question for years ... so far no response from any of the big 4.

If I could afford a KTM 500EXC, I'd buy one. We see used ones once in a while in the $8000 USD range (rare) new ones go for around $10K USD, plus lots of extra fees and taxes. Figure $12 USD on the road.

I'm looking at several used WR250's, under 2500 miles, less than 2 years old, in the $4500 to $5500 USD range.

bier

Probably because the price range on those bikes would be very similar to the price range on the 600cc range bikes thus cannibalize sales. An Yamaha XT450 would probably cost almost the same as the XT660 if you count development and marketing costs for the newer bike, and most buyers would prefer the 660 over the 450 (a better "horsepower for the buck" since most of the regular buyers focus on horsepower over weight).

What about producing in Brazil?
 

In Honda's case, perhaps they could use their Brazilian factory to produce a "new" 450 Dual Sport based on Thai made CRF250L. It would not have to cost the same as the CRF450R Moto Cross race bike, could be a "budget" rally version dual sport, not a race bike. Build it in Dakar guise, all road amenities, high elec. output, good suspension.

Adventure bikes are THE HOT BIKE now, so does not matter if a new bike steals from other segments. This new segment is a gift for the big 4 ... brought to them by BMW and KTM!

Honda could also produce a 450 dual sport in Thailand as they are already set up there for the current CRF250L. The 450 would be "for export only" to keep taxes down, so not sold locally.

But go further, set the bike up for long range ADV travel. Like a mini Africa Twin on a budget. They could do it and IMO, would sell well in EU, USA and Canada if done well.

Previous small, Brazilian produced Hondas have done well and are still sold all over Latin America and plenty of used CRF230's here in USA, both street legal and off road versions. Very solid bikes which started production in Brazil over 10 years ago.

You guys still get the wonderful Tornado Hondas I believe?? a 250 and 400cc versions? (can't recall name of other bike)

Not sure what sort of manufacturing facilities Yamaha have outside Japan, but it's likely they are already set up in Thailand (all other big four companies are).

Honda saw the future over 20 years ago and began setting up manufacturing world wide. (Brazil, USA, Thailand ... more?)
I was in Thailand 20 years ago when Honda first started production there. They produced a lot of 125cc 2 stroke dual sport bikes then. I rented one, rode it all over Thailand for 2 weeks. :thumbup1:

Kawasaki produces KLR's and Versys (and others) there since 10 years now.
Suzuki produced cars there, not sure what bikes they make in Thailand.
Suzuki assemble bike in Colombia and produce some products in S. Korea where they produced cars (and lots of bike parts)

The brasilian made Honda 300 is called XRE https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_XRE300
Its fuel injected, but have only a 5 speed gearbox. I think it took over for the Tornado in 2009. The chilean police (Carabineros) uses a lot of them I have noticed.

Yes many motorbike manufacturers make/assemble/produce some/many of their models in Thailand. Honda makes their Crf 250s there, the 500 range, the NC 700/750s, the four cylindred 650 I bekive too. Kawasaki make their 650s there, ER650, Versys 650, I think they also make their 300s there. Ducati makes several of their models in Thailand, Im not 100 % sure of which models but at least the scramblers. Triumph also make some of their models in Thailand and quite recently Harley D revealed that they will open a assembling fabric in Thailand. So very many bike models from several manufacturers are made/assembled in Thailand. And as far as I know there isnt issues about quality on Thailand made/assembled bikes.
Shouldnt be much of a problem to make another model there such as what for example what Mollydog mentions....

Wow! had not heard Ducati were manufacturing in Thailand. :thumbup1:

I forgot to mention Triumph. Most ALL Triumphs now made in Thailand and Triumph staff RAVE about the high quality produced there. So yes, no problems with Thailand production quality ... they are now a MAJOR player in the Moto
world. :mchappy:

PS, Kawi also make their ancient KLR650 lump there as well bier

I did not know about the XRE300 Honda. Still in production in Brazil? What other bikes are Honda making now in Brazil besides that 300?

Point is ... Honda have no real good excuse for not producing a 450cc dual-sport ADV bike. doh

Yes you are right, the XRE 300 is nothing more than a Tornado with different fairings, 5 speed gearbox, engine stroked to 291cc and a very basic fuel injection, but this bike (together with the CB300R who was discontinued and was replaced by the new CB 250 twister not long ago in Brazil) have HUGE reliability problems and a very, very, bad reputation in Brazil.

This engine in the 291cc configuration have a really bad tendency to develop a really hard valve knocking even on new bikes, and because of this there's a lot of reports of those engines having developing serious problems like cylinder head cracks. If you look for "xre cabeçote trincado" (cabeçote trincado in portuguese means cylinder head cracks) on facebook, google or youtube you gonna find thousands of people with bikes plagued with the cracked cylinder head "curse. The XRE 300 is almost universally hated in the motorcycle community in Brazil because of that. Some people solved the problem with this engine reducing the compression ratio (in the brazilian specs the stock compression ratio is 9:1, people usually reduces that to 8:1) but this as a consequence reduces the HP.

Whoa! That is some scary news!
I wonder if that 300 was exported all over the world (mainly Latin America)

The USA did get the early bikes from years ago (150, 230) and they were very reliable. Shame about these XRE 300. Sounds like Honda sent the Japanese Honda Quality control guys back home! :oops2:

In the past this was true, not now a days, since Honda discontinued the 400cc NX4 Falcon and replaced it with the XRE 300 (a bike plagued with problems) Yamaha started do develop a big lead over Honda with the 250cc Lander and Tenere (both also made in Brazil).

IMO the best bike Honda had for this segment was the older NX350 Sahara, a really simple, strong and sturdy carburated 350cc RFVC engine, 6 speed gearbox, a "dakar style" original fairing, 14 liters fuel tank and weighted just 140 kg. Later on the Sahara evolved to the now discontinued NX4 Falcon (the engine was stroked to 400cc but just a 5 speed gearbox and no "rally fairings").

Now a days the best "bang for the buck" in this segment in Brazil is Yamaha's 250cc Tenere.

No, just Latin America, but in most countries Honda have operations in Lat. Am. operates they still sells the carburated XR250 Tornado as well.

The XRE 300 is probably gonna be replaced soon with something visually similar to the Honda's CX-02 concept and using the same engine as the new CB 250 Twister, but officially they haven't said a word about it. If they realase a new bike this gonna probably happen during the "Salão Duas Rodas" bike show in November.

Have heard that the XRE had some problems but I didnt know they were that bad. Its a shame they cant make a decent 3-500 ccm bike nowadays.

Have seen some brand new Honda Crf 190 or XR 190 or whatever the letters in front were here in Chile where I am for the moment. Looks cool but its a small displacement bike anyhow.

Back to Thailand - of all the models that are made there I havent heard of any major problems. Build quality seems good and most peolpe like their bikes even though made in Thailand.
There have been speculations even here on HUBB that Honda will make a new Dominator. Personally I dont think they will be able to make a single cylindred 6-700 ccm bike that can pass through the last Euro emissions standards. Im more into that they will make a new Transalp. The last Transalp model was 700 ccm and I really dont know if they will make it smaller than that. And if so - it will most likely be a new +200 kilo bike. Do we really need that? I wish and pray for a 4-500 ccm, max 150 kilo, 500 kms range bike from Honda. That would have been something...

Hello Mark!

I ride a WR250R! And it is an amazing bike :
- almost as light and good offroad as an endure bike
- will ride all day long at 110 km/h if needed
- just needs an oil change every 6000 kms and a spark plug every 12000 kms.

Comparing a WR250R and a CRF250 side by side makes you immediately understand why the WR is more expensive. It is a very well made bike and I love it

Cheers

Guillaume