Priority No.1 - Fuel Efficiency
 

Ive recently been giving a lot of thought to using a lower capacity bike, even down to a modern 125cc, to significantly lower fuel costs. With the price they are now I would save a small fortune by using something like a 125cc which returns 100mpg vs a 600 which returns 50mpg.

I suppose the compromise is speed, but so long as I avoided motorways 60-70mph top speed is fine.

My brother has just passed his CBT and bought a Honda cbf125, which costs him only £6 or £7 to travel over 100miles. My R1 costs way over double that, but I get there quicker obviously.

As a toy the R1 is fine and I don't mind paying the higher fuel for the thrill, but i want to do a long long trip abroad and the saving of fuel would allow me to travel for longer with the same budget.

So what bikes do you guys recommend as a fuel efficient alternative suitable for 200-300 mile days on all terrain?

many will say F650 GS.

I bought a XT 600 E and it is not fuel efficient bike at all.
Beside this I will prefer it over F650 at all times.

Infact I am wondering 660 Tenere and XT 660 R.

I would love to use a higher capacity bike such as a 600 like you say, but the MPG would need to be above 60-70 before I would give it much consideration. Ive heard good things about the new 650GS but budget will not stretch to that unfortunately

Consider any bike that has fuel injection and I don't see the Honda Varadero 125cc mentioned in the HUBB but it is a tall 125 bike that looks good for travelling.

BTW, yes, the F650GS single returns 70-75 MPG running on tarmac (personal experience) and the new G650GS has the same twin spark FI engine. That engine is in the F650 from about 2003/4, such as the Dakar model.

I hear that the parallel twin cyl F650GS which is a 800cc engine returns similar fuel economy.

I havent tested the new DL650 2012-model long enough to know the exact figures... but I just read, that a Finnish magazine got 4.1 liters per 100kms average consumption (and in the same article it says some German mag had got 3.8 per 100kms). I do wonder, if those could really be AVERAGE consumptions, as bikes usually do get a hammering by the journos! But anyway it teems that there´s an improvement over the old model, which in turn wasn´t thirsty at all.

The new one´s got a 20 L tank, whereas the old one has 22 L. But if those figures are right, then their range could in fact be roughly the same (almost 500 kms without refilling - which is nice for a non-aftermarket tank!) And regards consumption, it would also put the new V-Strom just about on par with the small GS, but with the bigger tank, the DL650 would have a longer range.

I'd be thinking total lifetime cost. First rule IMHO, don't buy new, the hit you'll take by riding out of the showroom buys a lot of petrol. You can insure a 2007 650cc BMW or similar for less than some new 125's and filters/brake pads/ bits bought on e-bay are cheaper than the dealer. It gets even more worth thinking carefully about when your Chinese or Korean 125 manufacturer goes bust and no one can tell you which model year Honda they'd been copying.

Andy

Greetings thrifty DaveK,

I have been thinking along the same lines as you for a while now. I made the switch from big BMW for touring down to Honda and Kawasaki 250 dual sport bikes and haven't looked back. In my case, I have limited funds for travel and would rather go out longer on an inexpensive fuel efficient bike. My Kawasaki 250 super sherpa has a top comfortable cruising speed of 65 mph and the XR250 with high gearing about the same.

I was racing a high school kid in the mountains of Mexico last year. He was on a Honda Cargo 125 and had a top speed of 60 mph so I could catch up to him in the straights, although he was pulling away from me in the corners leaning that thing over like he was in a motoGP race . So these small bikes aren't really capable of high speed cruising like your stated goal of 70-75 mph, but riding a slow bike fast is an awful lot of fun. And the small bikes are perfectly acceptable for travel on third world back roads and byways.

I intend to tour South America on a 125 Honda. Have read of others doing the same. You can buy the small 125 Honda in Chile for 800 UK pounds brand new off the showroom floor. These bikes are quite common throughout the third world and finding parts and tires is much easier than for big dual sports. Most people in the US where I live think that a 650 is a small bike, so it involves a different mindset to go small. If you are coming from a large dual sport, it feels like you are riding a fast flickable motorized mountain bike. I pack light and only take the essentials which keeps less weight on the bike. If you can make these compromises then you can save a lot. Everything is less expensive on a small bike, less for fuel, bike parts, initial purchase cost . It all adds up.

With that said, I have traveled with folks on BMW fuel injected f650 and they get excellent fuel economy. The gal I was riding with was getting 60 mpg or better (non-imperial wimpy US gallons) regularly. Not as fuel efficient as a 125 Honda but still quite good.

Honda also is coming out with a 125 fuel injected motor that promises even better fuel economy.
Others may have better ideas.

Cheers,
John Downs

Im a bit of a fuel economy obsessive and i got my first DS bike with that in mind, i figured the more economical my bike the further i can afford to go touring.

On my Suzuki DR350 I get 64 mpg (US) on motorways at around 70mph (any more is a bit windy for me but she will go to 80+mph) and nearly 70mpg on country roads plodding along at 50 odd mph. If you are happy to go slower i think something like a DR250 or a Yamaha Serow (225 cc i think) will doubtless give better economy but still hit reasonable speeds.

I should point out that it is possible to get my mpg way down, when i ride in the city and race cars off the lights etc. but i guess thats true of all bikes.

I used to do a 100 mile partially motorway commute on a 125 bike (suzuki GN125) and i found it to give back far less than its stated mpg just because i was reving the hell out of it to keep myself at speed (and out of the wheels of the lorries).

Well you are getting plenty of responses to this thread but nothing yet about the "all terrain" aspect of your post.

Anyway, I mentioned FI because that is the way things are going, in the UK at least, but not all small bikes are using FI, yet.
I just did a check on ebay and there are more than 2 dozen 125cc Varaderos for sale there right now. Somewhere along the way that bike has switched to FI (an ad for a 2010 bike says this but earlier models have carbs).
Even a brand new one can be got for £4K+ a bit and there are loads of low mileage bikes for £2K or thereabouts.
And, it's a 90 degree V twin 125cc engine - how cool is that?

The serow has been mentioned here. I run one of them and, yes, it is 225cc for the older versions, like mine, and the newer ones are 250cc.
Running this, I don't even think in terms of MPG but miles per tank of fuel. In rough figures the Serow is doing 160 KM (they are all imported with KM clocks) per UK gallon (4.545 litres) on a mix of tarmac and gravel tracks. Yep 100 MPG or thereabouts. But, no way would I ride this bike above 50 MPH for any length of time with the standard gearing!!

I guess i didnt state it clearly, but the Serow, the DR250 and definatly the DR350 are very capable offroad bikes, probably moreso than most of the more popular 600+ cc dual sport bikes.

They are also all simple to work on air cooled singles, which should save alot of time and costs in maintenance.

I dont know as much about the Serow or DR250, but a good condition, late ninties DR350 will cost between £900 and £1400 depending on mileage and extras.

economy
 

Is anyone taking into account price of fuel, maybe if you are going somewhere fuel is fairly cheap, it offsets a bigger, more comfy bike..?

On tarmac I rate our Innova 125s, they can sustain good lean angle, cope with the weight OK (have taken them on camping trips fully laden with homebrew) and deliver over 100mpg. They are 'interesting' off-road though, ssee how quick the front end goes in this clip
Pizza boy breaks ankle riding off-road - YouTube

I have a BMW X-country, the G650. The gearing is slightly different from the X-challenge and X-moto, not as much snap. Anyway, I went around Europe recently 2-up and kept a watch on fuel. At around 100kph (60mph-70mph) we returned 80mpg on average. They were pricey bikes when new but second hand they're now pretty cheap. I had an F800gs as well and that averaged at 65mpg if you ride it carefully.

Ride Magazine did an economy comparison a few months ago between different size bikes. When the bigger bike (I think a ZX10R) followed a 125 that was being ridden flat out there was very little difference in economy.

Thanks for all the replies folks, nice response! If the 650gs can achieve 70-75mpg i will be very tempted by that, but will need to work on my figures as mentioned since £1000 would cover a lot of fuel if i bought an older cheaper bike. I keep forgetting about the varadero 125, it will definitely be short listed!

I had considered doing a trip on a bicycle or a dual sport, so the logical step was a low capacity motorbike as a compromise between the two. I had intended in spending most of my time in places like Mongolia and eastern Russia so will need to find out how much fuel actually is there. If its peanuts by comparison to the UK then the saving will be smaller using a small bike like said.

Cheers again folks, much appreciated

Enfield Diesel
 

A diesel Enfield could be an option 150mpg+, but its slow going.

Speed wise its sorta like a very fast bicycle.

There is a lot of evidence, in the HUBB and elsewhere, about the very good fuel economy of the 650GS, so you can take that as a fact - no need for the element of doubt in the word "if" :thumbup1:

I agree, you have a decent range of responses so far and the subject matter is not likely to go away. Even if there are one or two countries with low fuel pricing, there can be others that balance out that cheapness in order to get to that Shangri La.

I have read a few more of the adverts for 125cc Varaderos and the owners claim a cruising speed of 70 MPH and fuel economy of 80 MPG (that's the UK gallon in a UK advertisement). The concept of a V twin 125cc is intriguing and the pistons must be minute, but the ride has to be smoother than any single of the same capacity.

For your dismissal of the Versys, I am not so sure. The manufacturer's data claims a seat height, as standard, of 840mm which is not extraordinary in this day and age and various people say that the economy is good. With a lowering link and/or a lower seat it could be considered a very good possibility, with high build quality from Kawa.

The Serow: from a couple of rides recently I have checked it by brimming the tank and doing the maths. It came out at 97 and 91 MPG (UK again), so an average of 94 MPG (33 Km/Litre).
Again, this is relatively gentle riding on tarmac and occasional gravel without stressing the little engine, but pulling up hill and down dale on minor roads.

bier to fuel economy!

Depending on your size, you might find a 125 a bit small. I know I would. I think a Serow would be a good compromise. Many efi bikes get 70+ mpg these days, and about time too. My Tenere 660's real world fuel data is here. Ave: 71.7mpg, as good as any bike I've had.

But even my current bike (a 500 twin they've made for over 20 years) gets over 60 mpg on carbs. Its all to do with what we believe to be low power.
I agree: priority No.1 is fuel efficiency - so much follows from that (money saved, normal tank/less weight, good autonomy, etc).

Chris S

I am nowdays prepared to 'tour' on the ybr125, it gives a genuine 116+ mpg(uk gall) other riders have claimed even more, this I don't doubt as they are probably lighter than I and may not be so heavy on the right wrist.
An excellent little bike, but being Chinese made needs cleaning or the paint 'falls off' things:thumbdown:.
I have now covered 7500miles with no problems and btw its the FI model, recently I have acquired a EFI Enfield that only does 77mpg so may even use that, I have now 'retired' both my airhead BM's due to their thirst and my 2 diesel Enfields keep them company in the workshop.

At Yamaha Indonesia they have 150cc fuel injected 'Vixion', 125kg and 12Liter fuel tank, sells for 1700Euro (and 3year warranty on yur engine).

Pretty awsome if you ask me, who will be first to drive it around the world??

Unfortuanly they do not have any allroad models, but still can be done right ;)

http://www.yamaha-motor.co.id/upload...play-White.jpg

Kawasaki KLX250 is another contender, larger bike, not FI, sells for 4700Euro (or KLX150S - but that is a really small bike - 1800Euro).

A few people have already taken ybr125s round the world so no real biggy, and remember Nathan Millward rode to the UK from OZ on a 'postie' bike

would like to have/see the comparison for big enduros on 400-800 cc line.
If somebody has it pls send me via message or add here.

Sometimes we think we make a good think by buying a 250/300/400 cc but bike can have worse mpg economy than a XT or DR !

Im impressed with the 71mpg from the XTZ660. Being a bit of a Yamaha fan (owned them for about 90% of my riding career) im very tempted to look more into one of these, although more than likely the XTR for the lower seat height since the Tenere looks mahoosively tall. The prices seem to have come down to a reasonable level too since they have been around for a good few years now.

Thanks for all the replies, seems a lot of people share my No.1 priority :)

I agre that the Tenere is tall and top heavy too, for what it is. But I believe the efi on XTR engines that came before was less sorted (as with many early efi bikes).
Could not fault the Tenere's fuelling, but dont know if XTRs made after the Tenere came out with as-good fuelling. You'd think they did. David Lambeth would know.

Ch

Some quick maths
 

Compared a new 125cc (R6000) to a new bmw650 (R81000) with info from South Africa. The fuel economy is actually really close. 40km per liter for the 125cc, 31km per liter for the bmw650 claimed figures from makers.

But lets say that you travel 50000km over a period of time, then the 125cc comes out way cheaper that the bigger bmw. Mostly due to purchase price.

Without getting too complicated, just taking the purchase price and petrol cost to cover the km's - no service or other costs. The bmw costs 5 times more per km travelled @ R1,94. The 125cc costs R0,37 per km travelled.
Reducing the purchase price of the bmw to half (R40000) and it costs 3 times more per km @ R1,12.

Conclusion, if you are on a budget you will get many more km's for the same money on the 125cc. You may even have some spare cash for a beer withs friends.bier

Just to add my 10p/c/etc..

It just goes to show what different trips people are planning because from my perspective fuel economy gives me my maximum range but having an engine that delivers close enough to the figure to be predictable across a wide variety of conditions is what makes my day. You only have to add a headwind or some sandy tracks and suddenly a lot of these figures people quote look a bit optimistic! I'm pleased to see that people collect a range of consumption figures but those need to be qualified by the type of riding for that number not just averaged out. Average fuel economy on a RTW will always be high due to the large amount of highway you tend to encounter. What you don't want to do is get yourself stuck in a sticky situation because you assumed your bike will always do Xmpg when it won't.

I also reason that petrol/benzene is cheaper just about everywhere else than the UK so raw economy is 'less' of an issue if you budget in GBP.

bike
 

I agree that fuel is important but the fun factor is alsoimportant and I want to see how much it is to ride a loaded 125 in sand or at 10000 feet or trying to pass a truck when having head wind .... , power doesn't big cc bur it does help to have a bigger engine , le longevity may also be very different from a 125 to at least a 250 or bigger. Fuel is not that expensive when you compare part to replace engine on small cc and loading capability.

I did many trip on 250 and loved the light weight but economy was not the reason of my choice for the bike

Derbi
 

Just a curve ball here - What about the Derbi Adventure?

I bought mine new in June and it will do 75mpg minimum on motorways, over 85mpg bimbling about.

Well made, cracking engine and 6 speed box. 1st gear is nice and low for off road use.

I'm selling mine at the moment after buying my africa twin, both similar size bike.- see photo for comparison!

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...PIC_0006-1.jpg

I have a 2010 klx250s regularly returns 70 mpg, when i was running it in it was up to 100mpg fairly quick and not to uncomfortable.

Good looker
 

Wow, the Derbi is a really good looking bike. It looks bigger than the Twin, that is until you look at the bash plate. Pity they dont have them over here.

Can I ask all these fuel sippers if these figures are unladen, or maybe how laden? My (big and fat) bike does 200 miles on a tank without trying, but falls well short as soon as I put panniers on. Will the effect be more marked on a small cc bike? Or since you're already going slower the extra drag isn't as noticed?

Its good to see the older BMW single being promoted as thrifty, and no-one popping up with KTM alternatives ;) I have always been told KTMs are thirsty, and their absence in this thread must prove that :smartass:

:)

Loaded like this on a 3,000 mile trip last year I got over 95mpg. Enfield 500cc Electra.
If range is a problem you can upgrade the 14.5 litre tank to 18, 20 or 22 litres all for less than £200.

http://www.our-site.me.uk/bike/larry...reenwidth=1152

I guess KTM riders care less about fuel efficiency and buy the bikes because they are fun, so they don't care much about measuring consumption and posting in threads like this one ;-)

Doesn't mean KTMs are necessarily thirsty though (although I believe the big Twins are). My 690 Enduro drank 4.1 l/100 km on a trip from Munich to Madrid, averaged over roughly 2400 km on mainly A and B roads (including mountains) with a little motorway, fully laden and ridden fast (no high speeds, but quick acceleration). I also did a 2200 km trip in the Pyrenees with a friend on his F650GS (the old 1-cylinder one), the difference was between 0% and 10% more petrol for the KTM (usually about 10%) when filling up. One time I even needed less fuel than him. Not bad in my opinion, considering that the KTM is way quicker and a LOT more fun to ride than the BMW.

Offroad (Enduromania, i.e. on some difficult terrain) it needed a bit less petrol than the DR 350's of my friends.