Royal Enfield Himalayan versus Hond XRE 300 for travelling in SA starting in Colombia
 

For the better times to come:

I want to travel for about an year or two in South America. Thinking about buying a new bike and selling it afer the trip. In consideration are Honda XRE 300 and Royal Enfield Himalayan (20% cheaper in Colombia). I dont want to do real hard dirtbiking, but a bad gravel road or the Transamazonica should be in range. Waht would be your suggestion? Thanks in advance!

Do you want a bike that makes you look cool, or do you want a bike that's reliable? :)

Check out Itchy boots on you tube.

Cor Itchy Boots :whistling::whistling::whistling:innocent:

Actually both those bikes are quite similar. Air cooled, 5-speed gearbox, 24,5 HP and 25 HP, 21/18 wheels, fuel capacity 13,5 l(XRE) and 15 l(Hima)
The Himalayan is a bit heavier as its weight is 196 kilos and then XRE dry weight is 146 and thus probably near 175 kilos wet.

I questioned different people about the XRE quality when I travelled in south America, especially when I was in Brasil where its made (its also assembled in Colombia and Mexico) and what was said about it was it had some quite stated weaknesses, the cylinderhead easily developed cracks and also the EFI system was said to be primitive and prone to failure. However the XRE has been in production for many years (since 2009) so those things might be fixed by now(?)

The lighter weight of the XRE would definetively be a noticeably advantage on rough roads. On the other hand the Himalayan seems to be a better travel bike and seems to be able to carry luggage and even a pillion with more ease than the XRE.
Actually a very close race it is. Im really not sure which one I would have chosen.....

I'm a sucker for Enfields, Vespas and all things with a fair bit of nostalgia.

I've had to restrain myself from pulling the trigger on the Himalayan for my girlfriend (size and price is good, and it looks so cool!). What's been holding me back is concerns related to the combination of reliability and sourcing parts.

Although it is very capable, there are better options in the same budget bracket, especially if you look for second hand Japanese bikes with low mileage. Ground clearance, shock travel, wheel size, power to weight ratio... In my experience, the longer you travel, the less you care about the nostalgia of the bike and the more you care about features that make the bike more or less suitable for the the job - namely taking you on a journey. That much said, riding a Vespa in places where it shouldn't be, has given me far more positive social experiences than when I have been riding a big adventure bike. Still, having been there and done that (and it was great, and I'm glad I did it), I think those days are over for me - I now much rather prefer having the most suitable bike my budget can allow for. Riding on an unsuitable bike (not that the Enfield is unsuitable, it is very capable), is very adventurous and opens up for a lot of interactions - but it is also a constant struggle, it is nerve wrecking and it restrict you in terms of what you can do without hating life or ending it.

What I am trying to say is that while the Enfield gets a passing grade, it's not at the top of its class in neither performance, reliability nor serviceability. Going for a Himalayan will likely not be a mistake, it just might not be the best choice you could have made. But, if it is the only adventure bike you have experience with, you probably won't feel as though you are missing much. And, if you have a particular fetish for the Himalayan - well, then it probably is the best option.

If you follow itchyboots, note some of her complaints related to the bike. Now that she has so much more experience, I would be surprised if she would get the same one again if she was to replace the one she has now - unless she was sponsored. I think one of her main reasons for choosing her first Himalayan in the first place was economics, availability where she was at, as well as familiarity with the bike having rented one before - with little prior experience with any other adventure bike, it was a safe choice.

Don’t confuse modern Royal Enfields with ones of old.
The latest edition of the Himalayan is very popular in the UK and a very well built and reliable motorcycle. They are extremely easy to work on for a home or back street mechanic. There are plenty of dealerships in the UK and parts are just as easy to get as any of the Japanese makes.

Lots of people I know have bought Himalayans. Many of them view it as a baby GS - more so than the 310 - due to its low COG and huge amount of torque. These buyers are ageing and just don’t want a big adventure bike anymore.

The RE interceptor 650 and Continental GT were the biggest selling motorcycles in the UK in 2020 - that includes all sizes, even Honda 125s.

Yes there is a certain amount of nostalgia here - but not enough for these sale figures, the bikes have to be decent enough.

My friend has a WR250R and is an extremely experienced off road rider, his wife has a Himalayan - he told me that the Himalayan would do 90% of the off road riding that the WRR would do and he’s seriously thinking of switching, as you could ride the Himmy for 2 hours, do the trails and ride home again.

RE are a serious brand - when the Himmy had frame problems they bought out Harris frames who sorted it. They are opening dealerships all over the world, at a rate of knots - itchy boots found them in SA.

The new 411cc has fuel injection and switchable ABS, and a spoked 21" front wheel - which is nice. It also looks like it would be an easy bike to work on. It is still air cooled (which is ok as it is only one cylinder, but not great), the suspension travel is less than 20cm (not great, but ok), and the ground clearance before sag is just north of 20cm (not terrible, but not great). With 24hp and 200kg - the power to weight ration is weak.

It might be far more reliable and capable than RE's of the past - but it still isn't a Honda. Honda and Yamaha put together has close to half the global motorcycle sales, with Honda at approx 23%. Royal Enfield is tiny in comparison, and more than 90% of their sales are in India - and their sales have been declining massively for some time now - we are talking a 30% drop or so! It might be popular with its roots in England - but the rest of the world? I have yet to see a single one in real life. Now, add to that that the Himalayan concept has only been around for four or five years I believe, and the first couple were plagued by law suits due to reliability and quality issues. They might have got their act together in terms of quality, but the dealer network isn't exactly extensive. If you need a part or a mechanic that knows this bike - chances are that you will have your work cut out for you.

When I have travelled across Africa with a Vespa, I brought a ton of spare parts, and a HUGE tool kit - and I mean an a lot of weight and volume. If I had not brought spare steering bearings, shocks, complete clutches, pistons, CDI, specialty tools, and more - it would have been a very very slow and cumbersome trip. Now, a Himalayan is far more suitable running the old Dakar pistes and such than a Vespa - but it is still not close to a Japanese dual sport in terms of suitability for long distance travel outside India and England.

I think it is important that one does not put expectations very high for a brand that since just about forever has had a poor reputation in terms of keeping up with the competition in matters of performance and reliability. The legacy of the Himalayan is that of an infant. Even if itchy boots had few problems with her latest Himalyan, it does not give it a proven track record. I am therefore very careful about advicing something for a trip like this that has not thoroughly proven itself - unless it is about other matters such as just loving the brand/model and to the extent that the other attributes don't matter that much - but fanatics usually don't need to be preached their own gospel to.

I think that the Himalayan only has two great attributes going for it. The first being that it is frickin cool as hell, the other is that it is a bike that does not cost much new. As for the rest, I think it does just ok. I think you could get a ton more bike if you bought a second hand Japanese bike with low mileage and possibly a bit of extra gear.

NB! My stats and figures might be way off - I'm going by my memory. But they are not so far off that the point is still not made.

Wheelie - what you forget here is that TS is asking for a bike that he wants to buy and use in south America. Second hand japanese made bikes are rare in south America, very rare! I travelled through south America on a Yamaha Tenere 660 and parts for that were very difficult to source (except from Brasil where they also were assembled at that time)

Locally produced japanese brands in south America are plentiful of course, but then again they are not neccesarily on the same level of quality and reliability as japanese (or Thailand) made japanese brand bikes.

When it comes to Royal Enfield something tells me you dont know a whole lot about them. As Flipflop mentiones - RE kind of restarted their production a few years back and have english engineers and italian designers to construct and design their bikes. I read somewhere that it is the same italian designer that stood behind the Ducati Multistrada that also designed the Himalayan.

And even in 2017-2018 when I travelled through south America I saw several Royal Enfield dealers and bikes. Both in Chile, Equador and Colombia had RE dealers at that time, and now I belive they have expanded a lot. Royal Enfield is also setting up a factory for assembling of bikes in Argentina nowadays so I cant imagine getting parts for a RE will be that difficult in south America.
Also as mentioned from somebody else earlier in this thread - have a look at Itchy Boots travels on Youtube. She had very few issues with her Himalayans.

And if you yet havent seen a Royal Enfield live, maybe you should check out the Royal Enfield dealer in Oslo where you live....

Thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts.

Im not good in checking out motorbikes, repairing .. So I think its best to go for a new bike.

I will do a bigger hop on a motorway from time to time. Are these bikes capable for 120 km/h cruising speed. Or do i have to go for a (hopefully slightly) more expensive one?

He-he, where in south America except R5 in Chile do you plan to cruise at 120 km/h? :clap::clap::clap:

Neither the XRE or the Himalayan will cruise at 120 km/h without pinning the max out of every gear and you bending forward 90 degrees and have to see the dentist for refilling of the caries cavities in your teeth after a ride...

The sweet cruising spot on those bikes are around 90-95 km/h. Good fuel milage, not too much vibration in footpegs and handlebars and not wearing the engines out prematurely.

Yes both can do 120 km/h for a short stint, but it would not be adviseable to cruise at that speed for a longer period of time.

Im not a fast rider. more of a scenic one ,
I tested a Himalaya and its a "nice " bike , but even for me i couldnt live with the lack of power . :scooter:

An opinion was asked specifically on the Himalayan. See Snakeboy’s post above.
I suggested looking at itchy boots’ you tube channel of travelling through SA on a Himalayan - very reliable and she found plenty of dealerships.

I know nothing of the XRE so I didn’t comment on this bike. My wife, however, rode a Himalayan in the Himalayas in the monsoon. It proved to be a very robust bike that was easy to ride and coped very well with extreme conditions and altitude. For me it’s a known quantity.

We did a tour of Colombia for which we rented Kawasaki Versys 300s - they had more than enough power for us. Whilst on the trip we saw a few Royal Enfield Himalayans.

Here is a review of the Himalayan: https://adventure-motorcycling.com/2...eld-himalayan/

think you will find that she went to a cb 500 x after that and ...................

Right.

I rented an Honda 300XRE in Peru and was quite happy with it. When I return there post-covid I will be looking for another.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albu...080&fit=bounds
https://hosting.photobucket.com/albu...080&fit=bounds

Good, strong reliable bike. Plenty of speed for the highways and fairly light and easy to maneuver in the crowded streets. Carried my gear at sea level and at 4,000 meters equally well.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albu...080&fit=bounds



..............shu

She had to leave the Himalayan in SA due to Covid and got a cheap CB500x to continue her you tube videos in Europe, which is how she makes her living.

You seem to have a negative opinion of the Himalayan - I have had lots of positive feedback about the bike from a few friends and my wife so as the OP asked about them I thought I’d share my thoughts.

I’ve said nothing negative about the other bike (or any other bike for that matter).

For me the Himalayan has a lot of positive attributes for a trip in SA - that’s all I’m saying, I’m not saying it’s better for this than any other bike.
You seem to be very passionate in your opposition to the bike - perhaps you have had problems with the bike yourself?

Lovely looking bike

Sorry badou24 I have re-read the thread and saw this - ignore my Sunday night post, I got a bit confused - too much wine doh

No probs !
back to an old thread ........... How much power do you need on an adventure bike .................... not too much
not too little .......... about 30.. 70 bhp i think is a nice range !

when your on off road you do not need a lot of power , but you have to spend time on the tarmac to get there !
Used to lead trail rides in wales for years with groups up to 15 ! but soon cut this down to 3/4 Even did peak dist 2x ,but toooo sensative and to many walkers
keith

Do you know how much the paniers are?
They rent out without crash bars ?!

And how many times do you need more then 25 hp in South America?

Do you mean what do the panniers cost to buy? or to add to your rental?

They are Tusk Panniers.......https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p...num-panniers-p

I believe the shop in Peru made their own mounting racks for them. ://www.aroundtheblockmotoadventures.com/moto-purchase-buy-back/


Toby ( @charapashanperu here on this site.) rents them out from his shop in Huanuco.

No crash bars- rider is responsible for damage.

................shu

I travelled extensively with bikes from 12HP and upwards, including two trips in Africa on a classic Vespa. I agree more with badou24. It is not a question of what you need, but what you can use to your benefit, and to what extent. You can enjoy riding a 12HP bike arround the world... much of the time.

I have not been to SA yet, but I don't see why it would be so much different. When you haul yourself and luggage up hill, travel at high altitudes, need to pass cars, or ride the occasional fast paced strip, ride off-road - you can use some HP... not talking about the intoxication of power. With 35 you will still be lacking a bit in a few instances, but gain the benefit of a lighter and cheaper bike. 25 hp and most will crave more power - frequently. 50 and you will seldom feel like you are lacking HP, but even here you can wish for more (I hardly ever have), but now your bike is likely a quite heavy one. With 70 or more, you will seldom if ever feel as though you could use more power, but go much higher than 70 and your bike will get that extra bite that can get you into trouble off-road, making you wish you had less. If you ride two up, well even 70 might be a bit weak.

My previous adventure bike had 50 hp. I spent more than three years debating myself whether to go slightly less hp and lighter, or slightly more hp and heavier, or stay arround 50. I had been very happy with 50. I finally ended up with 70.

If I was to travel South America only, I just might have been more happy with a lighter 35 hp bike than a +200 kg bike with +50 hp... maybe...

Now, I could do 25 hp with a smile on my face if I was shoestringing (no money) it, or if I was to do a serious amount of technical off-road riding while traveling with featherlight luggage. But that's not usually how I travel anymore.

The right hp is very personal. I do however think that very few of us would have opted for 25 hp for long distance travelling if we could have 35 - those that do know what they need.

But where is the 35 HP Bike? In the Honda world there is the CBR 500 X, which is 50 HP and fairly priced at 6000 $US (in Brasil), but much heavier. :(

All bikes have a variable h.p . !
From 0 hp ( when not started ! ) To your max power ! when running !

Its called a throttle !

:scooter::scooter::scooter:

but for most 50 / 70 is sweet

The CRF 300 L or Rally I think has about 33 HP, the 400 I think is somewhere arround 39, about the same as with the DR-Z 400 S , the Versys 300 I've seen marketed with arround 40hp (though dyno tests I have read has shown substantially less). KTM 350 EXC - F I think is pretty close to 35hp and weighs only about 110 kg or so? I would assume the equivalent Husky sibling to be about the same. The KTM and similar dual sports would need some serious kit to make it a comfortable long distance travel bike though - making it expensive, and fatter.

Anyhow, there seems to a lot to choose from in the +/- 35 hp area.

It's right here and has been, pretty much unchanged for 24 years: DR650 ......36 HP.


Mine, in Eastern Turkey.......
https://hosting.photobucket.com/albu...080&fit=bounds

Rental, in Ecuador...........
https://hosting.photobucket.com/albu...080&fit=bounds


...........shu

There isnt. The Crf 300L has 27 HP https://ridermagazine.com/2021/01/05...t-look-review/
What 400 are you talking about? The Drz 400 is as far as I know not available in south America. And this nothing you can choose just like that....
KTM 350 with oil changing intervals at 1000 kms? And valve check every 3000 kms? And new piston and rings every 10 k kms or so? Yes that will be a great travel bike in south America - NOT!

Regarding what you mentioned in your last posting - you dont HAVE to overtake any other vehicle. If you ride a certain bike - you have to adjust to its weight and power, accelration and top speed. If you ride a relatively slow bike you adjust according to that and overtake only when its safe and possible with the bike you actually ride.
Another thing - people often stare blindly at spec sheets in stead of actually riding a bike. A Kawasaki 300 Versys has 40 claimed HP - at 11 000 rpm, the Himalayan had 24,5 HP at 6500 rpm. Ok - lets not get fooled by spec sheets - but what of those bikes will be best riding gnarly gravel roads in the Andes mountains or ditto along the infamous R40 in Argentina? Im pretty sure what I would have chosen...

And after riding around the world for 5 years and 250 k kms on 3 different bikes - Im 110 % sure that weight is much more important than claimed power/HP at 10 zillion rpms.

And another thing - when picking a bike for long distance travelling you should pick a bike and equipement for the very worst parts of your planned trip. Not for the best part. Any bike can be used for the fast and easy stretches of a trip. A small/slow bike maybe not as fast as desired
but it will get you where you want. A huge and heavy bike albeit fast and powerful might not be able to go through the most gnarly parts of the trip, or maybe only with lots of sweat and stress.

To TS - if you focus mostly on gravel roads at remote locations - chose the XRE. If its more important with a bit more comfort and more luggage capacity - chose the Himalayan.

Shu .............. please dont mention the DR650 again !
I think its the perfect adventure bike !
But only available in usa and nz .
If only we could buy one here in uk or europe , they would sell like hot cakes !
I have even thought about importing a new one , but far to expesive to do !
K

Oops, sorry.:whistling:

True, sort of. Actually also a very popular bike in Oz, and more importantly for this thread , I believe that they are assembled and available in Brazil as well. So they could be a viable option for a traveler in South America. Certainly, they become available when other travelers from N America finish their trips and don't want to ship their bikes back to Panama.

..........shu

The Dr650 is afaik readily available in south America, especially in Colombia where I think its assembled(?) So that could definetively be alternative for south America. A stock Dr would need some upgrades to make a decent travelbike as bigger gas tank, bashplate, windscreen and maybe also better sest and suspension too.
And it is indeed a great travelbike, even though its an antique relic in many ways...

Royal Enfield Himalayan
 

I agree.

I have used a RE Himalayan in Nepal.

For those roads and that traffic. It was perfect.
And I am sure it would be for South America also.
I understand perfect why it is built as it is.
Because I have used it for that.

I would use it again, if I would do a similar trip.
The strong low end torque and flat delivery of power is much more important than top end power.