I read an article recently that discussed the Honda AT in relation to the other 1000cc+ ADV bikes on the market. The author's argument was that the AT was never meant to battle the big KTM 1090/1190 nor the 1200GS. Those are $20,000 bikes. It was built and marketed with the intention of grabbing sales from the few middlewights (Tiger 800, BMW 800/850, etc) that offered similar figures on paper, this being weight, power output and price point. They also had the name Africa Twin which they very cleverly leveraged. KTM guys will buy the big KTMs. BMW guys will buy the big BMWs. For the rest of the market, they had a product that was priced similarly to smaller displacement bikes like the Tiger and offered a historically significant bike that is considered by many a very strong world tourer. Plus they have their Honda name.

It would seem that the ideal middleweight ADV bike is a bit of a unicorn and as a result, rumors of a lightweight yet powerful 700/800cc bike from big names like KTM and Yamaha will excite the masses. It's an untouched segment right now save for BMW's middleweight line and Triumph's bike, which have become more and more bloated over the years.

yeah, and I am surprised BMW came up with F850GS and abandoned F650GS.

This forum is filled, mostly, with travelers who want reliable economical lightweight bikes. I think that most of these companies cater more to the short term, weekend, riders that want higher power figures and comfort. I would venture to say that 70hp is probably a baseline number that many would want from a middleweight bike and to make an engine that produces that much power and also be long term reliable from a manufacturers perspective, they need larger displacements and therefore more weight. Yes, you can get 70 hp out of a smaller engine, but it's going to be working harder and longevity is probably one of the primary concerns for a manufacturer.

Also, why did they drop the 650? I guess it wasn't selling enough. Manufacturers respond to market demands that are in their economic interest. They're in the business of making money. A small group of overlanders and some longer weekend warriors does not give them enough reason to make a bike catered to us.

Wasn't the F650/F700 the same engine as the F800, just in a different state of tune, for marketing purposes? I guess the F700 was not sufficiently cheaper, and they just decided to market the higher number. :)

There is a new F750GS alongside the 850 and replacing the old 650/700.
Same differences: cast TL wheels (19” front) lower tune as you say, lower saddle and much cheaper. I thought the 650 made a great travel bike. Same price diff with the new ones: 850 from £9,400, 750 = £7,950.
One reason the F650Gs became a ‘700’ in 2012 was to belatedly deconfuse it from the 650 single.

Weight with 17lt fuel 165kg, well proven 600cc engine, seat height 920mm Off road orientated suspension, no unnecessary electrics, reasonably priced, just need to add luggage and ride, sound good specs. Think AJP pr7.

Have you ridden the AJP? Own one? If so, what can you tell us about it?

We've heard about this bike for a few years at least, guess one can now buy it in UK/EU. BTW, HOW MUCH? $$$$ ??

Haven't read any detailed ride reports on this bike ... do you have any good links?

I'm curious who designed the engine and where said engine is actually manufactured. Any clue on this? I hope it's a good one ... it will need to be.

My 40 HP Suzuki DR650se (a 21 year old design without revision) is 365 lbs. wet weight. I own a 2006, it's done over 60K miles now. Not one problem.

When riders start circling the globe on the AJP then I would give it a very close look. bier

Actually it is out or so it says here
AJP PR 7 Rally 600cc
@10k
Oh, hold on - it says "Make a down payment of $500.00 below…."

Looks like it uses the old Husky TE 610 motor like the upcoming CCMs and the SWMs.

Great! :thumbup1:
I wonder if it's produced at the Noale, Italy factory (near Lake Como) where old Huskies and MV's were produced?

I think MV may still be produced there? Good engines for the most part.

I went to Overland Expo in Flagstaff Arizona a few weeks ago, and there was a PR7 in a vendors booth there. They were selling luggage, I think, and had the bike to show their setup. I wasn't
interseted in buying one, so didn't take any notes or anything, but it looks like a top tier bike, and they do exist here in the states.

https://www.facebook.com/Wired4adventure/ :mchappy:

Don't own a PR7 but have owned a PR4 for 2 years, and reading blog was interested to find out why the PR7 was not in contention, despite it seeming to fit the discussion? After many Hondas going from SL's(not sure if anyone remembers this designation!) XL, XR, and CRF the AJP was a gamble as I wanted to end my days on a CRF 230 after a dalliance with Kawasaki and GAS GAS. But comparing the 2 the PR4 was it's equal, but had real suspension and all the good gear and no mods necessary just fuel up and ride, Mr Pinto over in Portugal seems to know what he is doing (these are not Chinese bikes and are a long way from those). To be honest have become quite a fan of the make hence my blog, also have another ADV bike (A Scrambler don't laugh suits me as a tourer and has taken me on many low key dirt outback and High country rides) and PR7 is a bit too dirt oriented at this stage. The PR7 like all AJP'S seems to sit in the middle and hopefully the Yamaha won't end up a porker and KTM being their over exuberant selves put out another racer. Hope I didn't bore anyone.
Joe P.S I think the RE Himalaya is pretty cool too!

A new video of the Tenere 700

https://youtu.be/41fSt7C9jw4

Yam's new T7 just keeps looking better and better. Peterhansel has still got it.

Yamaha should hurry though, get this machine out there, get riders riding them. Based on my history and biased opinion ... if the two bikes are fairly equal ... I'd choose the Yamaha every time over KTM's forthcoming 790.

Cheaper to buy, run and maintain I'm betting more reliable long term.
And ... also would go for Yamaha as being the better RTW type travel bike.
Tougher, simpler, better. Better? Yes, the new Made In China KTM 790 will have to prove itself to me. For now, I'd pick the Made In Japan Yamaha.

For me, the T7 looks to be a GREAT compromise vs. my current Suzuki DR650. Sure, it's going to be heavier than my DR650 but it should be a better road bike and I'm betting it matches or betters the DR650 on fuel economy. (a real issue, IMO) How much heavier? No idea.

How will it perform loaded up with 20 + kg. luggage? Time will tell. I'll be waiting at least a year, giving time for both the T7 and 790 KTM to be properly vetted by experts and hopefully get some owner feedback too.
:mchappy:

Are you you sure the new T7 Tenere or whatever they call it will be made in Japan? The last Tenere was never made in Japan. It started out in Italy but was eventually moved to Spain. My 2011 Tenere has a «Made in Spain» under the seat. (Maybe thats why its so infected with errors too maybe....?)