Tenere 700 - The long awaited perfect adventure bike?
 

Presented at EICMA, the new Tenere concept bike, the T7.

Dakar-Inspired Yamaha T7 Concept Unveiled at EICMA - ADV Pulse

Could this be the perfect adventure bike?

With a rumoured weight of 180kg, this modern machine seems to be what many have been waiting for, a middle weight bike with real dirt capabilities without sacrificing too much street comfort.

Looks mighty fine if you ask me.

This looks awesome, I wonder if they'll keep the weight down in the production model though. If they can this'll certainly give the 690/701 a run for its money!

Looks to be a good direction. The 600 and 660 had a good reputation here. Do anything if a touch on the budget side long term. Things like cush drive rubbers needing wrapping in inner tube.

It'll be on my 2019 shopping list.

Andy

I'm a bit confused (doesn't take much). Is this same bike that we saw spy pics of a few months back on test in Italy or is it a concept for a more adventure-focused bike based off the one we saw spy pics of? I'm kinda hoping for the latter as I'd like to get a new bike next year, not wait 'till 2018...

yes the T7 concept bike is suppose to be the bike from the spy shots

Bugger. Used F800GS it is then...

YAMAHA revealed the TÉNÉRÉ 700 PROTOTYPE on the pre-EICMA yesterday.

Yamaha reveals Ténéré 700 World Raid ... | Visordown

and:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uy55wM0q9r0

Looks like it will not be available before 2019 ..

kTM has another one of the "Which bikes" in this sector
 

KTM may get into the market before Yamaha:-
https://www.adventurebikerider.com/k...e-r-prototype/

Which ever company does it first, twin cylinder engines of "middling capacity" are the way to go?

Footnote: This is the day when the journos reveal what they have been allowed access to at the EICMA - the public get their access from tomorrow.

KTM 790 Adeventure
 

My money is on the new KTM 790 Adventure bike.


KTM 790 Adventure Concept
发动机（Engine） 799cc parallel-twin
马力（Power） 103.3bhp @ 9000rpm (est)
座高（Seat height） 850mm (est)
车重（Weight） 180kg (est, dry)

Link..... with pictures ....2017米兰车展：KTM 790 参数曝光

Both seem to fill the gap between enduros and the large heavy adventure bikes.

Not too heavy for off-road and sufficient power for on-road use and not too expensive I hope ;-)

Question is why this takes this long ..

In a nutshell
 

The money lies elsewhere: all of the manufacturers bring out a new model in a "road going" bike first which are the ones that sell in the mass market segment compared with the so-called adventure market.
KTM, for instance, will always market a Duke as the first of their bikes when they have a newly developed engine. Similarly, Yamaha have had their XSR with the 700cc engine fitted and on sale for about the past 2 years.

CCM are on to the same marketing ploy, with their "spitifire" fitted with the SWM engine rather than making now their replacement for the GP450.
It doesn't matter if it is a single, a twin cyl or whatever, main-stream bikes sell well.

Yamaha used a lot of resources to develope this thingy - I presume itwill be their best seller for the next 5-6 years...

Yamaha reveal stunning new Niken three-wheeler | MCN

yamaha overslept, too late, too heavy. By 1the 2019 everybody will ride KTM new adventure and updated Africa Twin. :)


BTW don't get it why it takes so long for them to release new bike if this is supposed to be MT-07 in adventure clothing.

I'ts business
 

Probably because the accountants who run the various branches of Yamaha industrial production deem it not economic, for their books, to mass manufacture such machines until the premium price for other types of machines has been obtained by said company.

There will always be customers lining up to buy any machine that has the tuning forks as the logo.

KTM just presented the new 790 Duke and Adventure bikes at EICMA show.
Cycle World somehow found a claimed Dry Weight for the Adventure model:

The good: 103 hp, 63 lb/ft of torque, 372 lbs dry.
The bad: The USA won't see it until about a year from now.

Europe will get this bike in 2018 but USA have to wait a whole year for it's release. :oops2: So, this should give Yamaha time to "Adjust" the T7. But if those weight quotes are any where near accurate ... then once again KTM will easily win the day, estimating a Wet Curb weight at round 400 to 410 lbs. ready to ride, fully fueled. That is LIGHT for a Twin.

Worth the wait? YES! The real UNKNOWN will be the new P-Twin 790 engine.
How strong and reliable will it be? This is an ALL NEW Engine for KTM, who's past record on new hardware is less than perfect! :oops2:

after over 60 hours off-road on my ktm 500 exc without any problems whatsoever I think I won't be afraid of buying new adventure bike from ktm.


here is the clip of this 790 adventure, and I agree yamaha T7 don't stand chances as it will be too heavy.

With all of the electronic wizardry going on these days, I'm not fully comfortable with either of the offerings from Yamaha or KTM. I've had friends with electronic throttle by wire get stuck at full throttle. I have had friends with electronic suspension get stuck with the suspension locked in it's hardest settings. If I had the luxury of owning multiple bikes, perhaps this wouldn't be an issue, but usually I don't.

My pockets are not deep enough to fix any of those bikes out of warranty.

both bikes look promising, I'm liking the flat seat on the yamaha so you can get your weight back.

However I still think both these bikes will be out of my reach for height,weight and cost.

Really hoping for a KTM 390 Adventure or a bigger engine in the CRF Rally format

Has there been much news about the 390 ADV? I haven't heard much, although admittedly I have been focused on the bigger machines.

No news but it seems such a shame the 390 engine has been around long enough for them to develop it into something great. It would be a hit in the Indian Market and I'm sure plenty of worldwide sales would follow. I really thought KTM would have put some money behind this bike

My guess is that they've been rolling a lot of R&D money into their big bikes and middleweights. The 1190/1090 group underwent some changes, the 1290 has seen fairly consistent revisions and the 790 is the first parallel twin motor for them. I'm sure that took some time.

790 parallel twin engine is also used in Duke 790 so it's good it will be better tested but still getting first year model with new engine type is risky for any longer trip I believe. More safer option here is Yamaha T700 as engine is well proven in MT07 for years.

Why you think so? Duke 790 weighs 169 kg, by no mean it's a heavyweight bike and with 105 HP it's a killer combination. Obviously 790 adv will be a bit heavier but not much. MT07 weighs 181 kg. Anything below 200 kg with that much torque and power is fine with me.


p.s.
I start to think many simply prefer very light bikes just because of the price,
and then they justify all shortcoming of such choice for themselves.

Very likely the Yamaha's engine might be more reliable. I was beginning to say that I doubt a company like KTM would release a powerplant that had any major defects or weak points, but then I remembered the 1190's airbox that sucked in sand and dust and caused catastrophic engine failures on low mileage, $16,000+ flagship bikes.

As for taking a longer trip with a first model year bike, I agree with you there. I would give the bike some time before embarking on any big journey.

All good points ... I'm sure there are examples of electronics failures on modern bikes ... but in my experience these systems are pretty tough now, well tested and mostly reliable long term.

Can they really withstand abuse of long range travel far from the dealership?
I still have some worries in that regard. Diagnostics can be difficult and 3rd world shade tree mechanics may struggle to fix the problem without dealer support and computers.

But many have done RTW on modern bikes at this point, done OK, some have had issues.

Russia/Mongolia pioneer Walter Colebatch comes down firmly on high tech/F.I. side, apparently mostly embraces these new technologies on travel bikes.

I believe Walter is now riding mostly KTM, (??) having left his BMW X Challenge behind a few years ago. But please up date me if I got this wrong, I don't follow him closely now.

But I wonder how much longer can I continue traveling on an outdated, Carb'd, non ABS bike that has NO electronic aides?

Then there is cost. I'm sure both Yamaha's T7 and KTM 790 will sell well enough, for sure a few owners will do RTW on them.

But like the big KTM's or BMW GS's, the initial buy-in into the "club" is a bit exclusive, being likely in $12K to $15K USD price range. Compared to top of the line GS ($25K USD) or KTM ($20K USD), that is "Cheap" :eek3: But to many, a big investment and certainly not a "budget bike".

For me, it could be years before a lower cost "Used" version of either appears, so in the meantime I make do with what I've got ... and hope that KTM's 390 Adventure is really good and also that Honda drop a modern 350cc engine into the CRF Rally. bier

I was super pumped about BOTH these bikes. My wife got tired of me showing her pictures! The T7 really had me going for a while, and a while, and a while................
I realize timing is everything but they BOTH LOST ME!! And not JUST me. I have been following these two for a VERY LONG TIME and for me the waiting IS OVER!! The T7 should have been available NOW! I seriously would have had a look but I bought a new 2017 Husqvarna 701 enduro instead. I needed a bike NOW! I didn't want to have any regrets however so I simply reminded myself that the Husqvarna WILL BE LIGHTER and I'm thinking easier to work on in so far as engine access. Yamaha-KTM........ you lost another one.

And the wait continues...and continues....and continues..

Absolutely. Many of the new electronics packages are very reliable. The LC 1200GS comes to mind, as it's very much computer powered and there have been plenty of world tourers on those bikes. That bike came out in 2013. I'm with you though. If a throttle cable snaps or the bike is running poorly, there's a very strong possibility that I'd be able to fix my own "analog" bike. If there's electronic suspension, rider modes and electronic throttle then I'd be at the mercy of any dealership. EFI doesn't worry me, nor does ABS. Beyond that, for my style of riding, I can do without it.

I think he got one of Lyndon Poskitt's 690 KTM Factory ex-Dakar bikes. Lyndon did a custom build for him if I remember correctly. It begins with sourcing a hard to find rally bike and then having Lyndon wave his magic wand over it. I'm pretty sure you're looking at a $20k plus setup including the donor bike.

For your lifetime and mine at least. Most of the bikes that I've seen sold in Latin America that aren't big names are carbed and are very basic. I would imagine that it's the same in many other developing countries. It'll be a long long time coming.

I buy used. I've only bought two new bikes, both were here in Honduras and both bikes cost me under $4k USD (which is why I was able to afford them without financing). Otherwise, all of my bikes in the USA have been used. If you hunt, you can find 2016 Africa Twins already for $10k, and that bike is only a few years old now. Prices are only going to get better and better. (not that I want an AT, but just as an example) Some people can afford to buy new, and when they move on, it works out for me.

I think that the 390 ADV will come some time after the 790 ADV. I don't know if it would make sense to have them come out in quick succession.

they not really lost you, you bought technically a KTM :)

but I agree, they recently started to introduce new bikes very slowly and way too early before they can actually sell it. I guess they envy Africa Twin success with that strategy. But some are not too patient and lose interest.
Let see, 1 year or more prototyping and teasing, then 1 year to make it available plus another year or so to fix all the issues. Again new AT is perfect example. People don't have time today for this games.

I read an article recently that discussed the Honda AT in relation to the other 1000cc+ ADV bikes on the market. The author's argument was that the AT was never meant to battle the big KTM 1090/1190 nor the 1200GS. Those are $20,000 bikes. It was built and marketed with the intention of grabbing sales from the few middlewights (Tiger 800, BMW 800/850, etc) that offered similar figures on paper, this being weight, power output and price point. They also had the name Africa Twin which they very cleverly leveraged. KTM guys will buy the big KTMs. BMW guys will buy the big BMWs. For the rest of the market, they had a product that was priced similarly to smaller displacement bikes like the Tiger and offered a historically significant bike that is considered by many a very strong world tourer. Plus they have their Honda name.

It would seem that the ideal middleweight ADV bike is a bit of a unicorn and as a result, rumors of a lightweight yet powerful 700/800cc bike from big names like KTM and Yamaha will excite the masses. It's an untouched segment right now save for BMW's middleweight line and Triumph's bike, which have become more and more bloated over the years.

yeah, and I am surprised BMW came up with F850GS and abandoned F650GS.

This forum is filled, mostly, with travelers who want reliable economical lightweight bikes. I think that most of these companies cater more to the short term, weekend, riders that want higher power figures and comfort. I would venture to say that 70hp is probably a baseline number that many would want from a middleweight bike and to make an engine that produces that much power and also be long term reliable from a manufacturers perspective, they need larger displacements and therefore more weight. Yes, you can get 70 hp out of a smaller engine, but it's going to be working harder and longevity is probably one of the primary concerns for a manufacturer.

Also, why did they drop the 650? I guess it wasn't selling enough. Manufacturers respond to market demands that are in their economic interest. They're in the business of making money. A small group of overlanders and some longer weekend warriors does not give them enough reason to make a bike catered to us.

Wasn't the F650/F700 the same engine as the F800, just in a different state of tune, for marketing purposes? I guess the F700 was not sufficiently cheaper, and they just decided to market the higher number. :)

There is a new F750GS alongside the 850 and replacing the old 650/700.
Same differences: cast TL wheels (19” front) lower tune as you say, lower saddle and much cheaper. I thought the 650 made a great travel bike. Same price diff with the new ones: 850 from £9,400, 750 = £7,950.
One reason the F650Gs became a ‘700’ in 2012 was to belatedly deconfuse it from the 650 single.

Weight with 17lt fuel 165kg, well proven 600cc engine, seat height 920mm Off road orientated suspension, no unnecessary electrics, reasonably priced, just need to add luggage and ride, sound good specs. Think AJP pr7.

Have you ridden the AJP? Own one? If so, what can you tell us about it?

We've heard about this bike for a few years at least, guess one can now buy it in UK/EU. BTW, HOW MUCH? $$$$ ??

Haven't read any detailed ride reports on this bike ... do you have any good links?

I'm curious who designed the engine and where said engine is actually manufactured. Any clue on this? I hope it's a good one ... it will need to be.

My 40 HP Suzuki DR650se (a 21 year old design without revision) is 365 lbs. wet weight. I own a 2006, it's done over 60K miles now. Not one problem.

When riders start circling the globe on the AJP then I would give it a very close look. bier

Actually it is out or so it says here
AJP PR 7 Rally 600cc
@10k
Oh, hold on - it says "Make a down payment of $500.00 below…."

Looks like it uses the old Husky TE 610 motor like the upcoming CCMs and the SWMs.

Great! :thumbup1:
I wonder if it's produced at the Noale, Italy factory (near Lake Como) where old Huskies and MV's were produced?

I think MV may still be produced there? Good engines for the most part.

I went to Overland Expo in Flagstaff Arizona a few weeks ago, and there was a PR7 in a vendors booth there. They were selling luggage, I think, and had the bike to show their setup. I wasn't
interseted in buying one, so didn't take any notes or anything, but it looks like a top tier bike, and they do exist here in the states.

https://www.facebook.com/Wired4adventure/ :mchappy:

Don't own a PR7 but have owned a PR4 for 2 years, and reading blog was interested to find out why the PR7 was not in contention, despite it seeming to fit the discussion? After many Hondas going from SL's(not sure if anyone remembers this designation!) XL, XR, and CRF the AJP was a gamble as I wanted to end my days on a CRF 230 after a dalliance with Kawasaki and GAS GAS. But comparing the 2 the PR4 was it's equal, but had real suspension and all the good gear and no mods necessary just fuel up and ride, Mr Pinto over in Portugal seems to know what he is doing (these are not Chinese bikes and are a long way from those). To be honest have become quite a fan of the make hence my blog, also have another ADV bike (A Scrambler don't laugh suits me as a tourer and has taken me on many low key dirt outback and High country rides) and PR7 is a bit too dirt oriented at this stage. The PR7 like all AJP'S seems to sit in the middle and hopefully the Yamaha won't end up a porker and KTM being their over exuberant selves put out another racer. Hope I didn't bore anyone.
Joe P.S I think the RE Himalaya is pretty cool too!

A new video of the Tenere 700

https://youtu.be/41fSt7C9jw4

Yam's new T7 just keeps looking better and better. Peterhansel has still got it.

Yamaha should hurry though, get this machine out there, get riders riding them. Based on my history and biased opinion ... if the two bikes are fairly equal ... I'd choose the Yamaha every time over KTM's forthcoming 790.

Cheaper to buy, run and maintain I'm betting more reliable long term.
And ... also would go for Yamaha as being the better RTW type travel bike.
Tougher, simpler, better. Better? Yes, the new Made In China KTM 790 will have to prove itself to me. For now, I'd pick the Made In Japan Yamaha.

For me, the T7 looks to be a GREAT compromise vs. my current Suzuki DR650. Sure, it's going to be heavier than my DR650 but it should be a better road bike and I'm betting it matches or betters the DR650 on fuel economy. (a real issue, IMO) How much heavier? No idea.

How will it perform loaded up with 20 + kg. luggage? Time will tell. I'll be waiting at least a year, giving time for both the T7 and 790 KTM to be properly vetted by experts and hopefully get some owner feedback too.
:mchappy:

Are you you sure the new T7 Tenere or whatever they call it will be made in Japan? The last Tenere was never made in Japan. It started out in Italy but was eventually moved to Spain. My 2011 Tenere has a «Made in Spain» under the seat. (Maybe thats why its so infected with errors too maybe....?)

Me likey.


I want one and I'd take the Yamaha any day of the week and twice on Sundays over the KTM.

That's a good point ... one I'd forgotten. I did not know Yamaha made "big" bikes in Italy ... or Spain. Was the 1200 Tenere built in Italy or Spain?

I could live with an Italian made Yamaha as Yam has had a relationship in Italy for what? 20 years?

For KTM, the relationship with this Chinese company, AFAIK, is fairly new. Plus, Bajai Auto India own half of KTM ... and may be calling the shots more in future. Hopefully they get the production bugs out before they release it! doh

But the Yamaha could have bugs too ... as many first year bikes can have.
But, IMO, Yamaha have a better track record for getting things right. Plus ... I raced Yamahas in AMA Enduro ... loved them! (2 strokes) :wheelchair:
so biased!

yeah, me too some time ago, but not anymore. Look how many quality issues has new Africa Twin supposedly built in Japan. Once you get KTM you'll appreciate it. Times when the whole bike was made in Japan are gone anyway.

my tenere was built in France, it is just an assembly though. Not a problem with quality anyway, but KTM built in India concerns me a lot...

Yea, Bajai and KTM really need to straighten out the quality control in India.

What do you think of the Chinese company building the 790 for KTM?
Apparently KTM, along with the Chinese company, have built a new production
facility there. Any info?

I have no problem with Chinese or e.g. Taiwan quality anymore, as a matter of fact for goods made in Taiwan or Japan I don't see any quality difference.

Thanks to EU we probably won't see anything build in Europe anymore soon :)

Taiwan not the same thing as Chinese mainland.
Much closer to Japan, as you say.
Better quality metallurgy and fabrication than much of China – that's how Taiwan made their reputation, a bit like Switz and watches back in the day.
Of course no reason why China can't get there eventually, if not already in places.

According to the Internet, the MT07s/XSR (same motor) are assembled at the Japanese Iwata factory.

No complaints if the T7 ends up as well made as my scrambled XSR (a lot better than my XT660Z)

KTM + CFMoto: West Meets East - Cycle News

Last I checked, CF Moto is in China, not Taiwan. And I agree, Taiwanese quality has been GREAT for 20 years.

Kymco (Taiwan) built the 450 dirt bike engines for BMW and plenty of other great products. NO, they did not build BMW's F650's. Those were built by Loncin (who are now building the latest BMW 850's) bit lower quality? But AFAIK, Kymco quality is very close to Japan quality.

But CF moto (from reading Alan Cathcart's writings about Chinese Moto production over last 15 years, is one of the best or maybe? THE best moto company in China?

Looks like the switch will not be made until 2020 ... but I'm not clear on this.
So, maybe first 790's will be Austrian made ? ... or ? Hope it works out whatever way it goes. bier

i'll have to sell a lot of my thinks to buy it ...
but i will!!!!

Don't be too quick to knock Chinese manufactured bikes. The brand owners have been chasing cheap labour all round the world so are well used to instilling and ensuring their global quality standards. They don't just give them a set of drawings and say "off you go"!

A friend of mine had a Honda Innova as well as the Chinese branded equivalent, both made in the same plant in China. The Honda was everything you'd expect, slick, reliable, well finished, and the Chinese bike made for the local market was shoddy, sharing only an engine and a shape. If European and Japanese companies manufacture abroad they are very careful to make sure the product quality stays the same, the only effect should be that it costs you less because the poor sods who make it for pennies earn less in the process.

So regardless of where each bike is made you should judge it by the standards of the parent company not the local market. That said I intend to buy either a 790 or a T7, as I want a relatively lightweight bike that can eat up the miles but doesn't flounder like a whale off road. My thoughts were the KTM, as I believe they have made great strides in reliability while still maintaining a performance focus, but I'd consider the Yamaha if the weight is comparable.

It's not a new phenomena.
Run-of-the-mill established technology metal bashing will continue in "developing" countries while high-end, very innovative technology will remain with those countries/corporations which hold the patents, copyright and manufacturing rights under licence (the latter have been widely ignored by China in the past but that needs to change if they want to continue to trade with the rest of the world - the POTUS has told them I guess).

A new video of the tenere 700:

https://youtu.be/R-4_rYHMg2w



Patrick

will go for a ride tomorrow ...
 

will go for a ride tomorrow ... not on my Tenere as it is in Germany ... but maybe on the KLX450R that I still have here ... thanks for posting :mchappy:

ohh I just checked out that video and found some info as I noticed it has an English license plate on it! So i ran some checks the bike was registered back in the Uk March 2018 and it is 689cc.

I imagine that as Nick sanders is involved in the last part of the tour that the bike has been prepped by Alf england Mototrcycles as they have prepped all of Nicks yamahas for many years. :scooter::scooter: I guess as it was going on a world tour it had to be legally registered somewhere but it appears Yamaha UK have a strong involvement with the bikes World release.

The bike was also on UK plate in morroco but was on an ausie plate for the first part of the tour in OZ

Love the look of the T7 but its too lardy and tall for me I had a 660 Tenere and loved it but I've got short legs and the bike was too wide for me to get a good standover height to really enjoy it off road and the front end was heavy so suffered in muddy conditions. So sadly i wont be in the market for one. KTM might swing me with the 390 adventure unless Yamaha utilise the MT 03 engine and do a T3 now we're talking but its probably at least 2 years away!

I'm waiting to know the wet weight too. There is some hope. The MT07 is about 399lbs wet. If they don't mess things up. Maybe the new tenere will weight 410-415. The xt660z was 452lbs wet. That was too much.

If it comes with plenty of travel you may have a chance to lower the bike to fit you.

Patrick

To be fair, the XT660Z did hold 23 litres of fuel... if you compared it using a like-for-like fuel load, it wan't much heavier than an F650GS - ie. in the ball-park for a long-distance travel thumper (screen/fairing, good seat, big gas-tank, strong subframe etc. etc.) - plus the 205Kg wet-weight was also the ABS version as I recall...

Even without such a large tank, I can't imagine the twin-cylinder T700 is realistically going to weigh significantly less than the 660Z did as stock, but hopefully it will be similar at least - and with the option to easily strip off a few parts (such as a heavy OEM exhaust and passenger foot-pegs etc.) to help compensate for any accessories you want to add.

Jx

for info. Motor manufacturers often use the UK for registering pre-production and limited-run machines, since the SVA (single vehicle type-approval) system means odd-balls can be inspected and registered without being fully homologated - this is why you often see factory Dakar bikes (the Honda HRC team for example) on UK plates - even though the bikes themselves may have originated in Japan. It's essentially a way to get a legitimate [road] registration document for them without having to jump through too many hoops, prior to the actual production machines being available.

Jx

Seems to me lots will depend on how well Yamaha do with the chassis design.
We hear about heavy bikes "riding light" all the time. In this case that feature will really matter. It's got to feel light, even if it's not.

Will you need help picking it up? You bet. But forget Yamaha's hype and videos portraying the T7 as some sort of near Dakar race competitor. Not a chance.

It's funny actually .. if you look close at some of the videos once in a while they let slip a hard landing or a place where you can see the bike goes out of control
(as heavy bikes do when pushed hard off road).

Important part is how nicely will the bike ride for the average rider riding moderate off road. If it feels good, is not too tall, it could work well for a LOT of rider/travelers.

Other key to do with chassis design is how well the bike handles ON ROAD.
It will have a HARD time matching the surprising handling of the latest R1200GS. For a huge bike, that BMW goes round the corners very well ... even fully loaded.

The Yamaha will have to do the same. As we all know, like the GS's, big KTM's and Tenere's, this new T7 will still spend most of it's life ON ROAD.

:mchappy:

I bet T700 won't be lighter then xt660z tenere no ABS version which is 206kg,
but power to weight ratio will be finally proper :) Unfortunately looking for
the shape of new bike it will be also top heavy as tenere was.

I'm inclined to think the question is not how does the T7 compare to the 660 Tenere, but rather how does it compare to the KTM 790?

they won't compare, will be totally different beasts. You know already how MT07 compares to ktm bikes :)

If the info from the interview with Nick Sanders is accurate. The new tenere 700 is supposed to weight around 170kg (374lbs). It is far from the xt660z. Even if you substract 12-15lbs to the xt660z because of the larger gas tank, the new Tenere is way lighter. It also weights 70kg less than the Super Tenere. It looks like Yamaha did their homework.

https://www.adventurebikerider.com/n...as-tenere-700/

Patrick

I wouldnt hold my breath, at least until we get some factsheets and specs about this bike. Maybe some time into the new decade...

The Tracer model with the same engine is probably the nearest we come in size and weight and with a 17 liter tank it comes out at 196 kilos wet. https://www.autoevolution.com/moto/y...racer-2016-700

With maybe a bit bigger gas tank and equipped for handling offroad riding the T7 is not gonna be any lighter than the Tracer, and it will NEVER come in at 170 kilos dry.

You may be right Snakeboy. In the meantime, here is the latest video:

https://youtu.be/Dezt7D_jjfc

no, it is not accurate. He got all numbers wrong. He states it will be on pair with small tenere which obviously is not 170 kg. Besides new T7 engine is based on naked MT07 which weighs 181 kg so when you added all adv stuff like bigger tank, protection etc it will be way heavier. Anyway same way as xt660z (206kg) is fine with that engine for me.

My XSR was 185kg with 14L of fuel, so that's 175 dry.
Can't see the T7 being 170, even dry.
T7 looks like full cradle frame, is longer, taller (than XSR/MT).
Wheels might be lighter.

More from Nick in today's MCN
https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/...ha-tenere-700/
Probably another version of ABR

But whatever it weighs, looks like it'll be a great travel bike by Jap standards. Maybe even the best Tenere in a long time. The motor is provenly brilliant; all that's needed is suspension to match and somewhere to go.

They say it will be announced at EICMA show in a couple of weeks.

Based on Yamaha website, the new Tenere 700 will be available in second half of 2020. They are taking forever.

It has a 4.2gallon tank. No weight spec. yet.

More info here:

https://www.yamahamotorsports.com/ad...els/tenere-700


Patrick

Could that refer to Yamaha USA only? (Don't know why).

Lot of talk of 2019 from EICMA:
https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocia...max-eicma-show

This thread needs more pics...

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-...GnvJC8Z-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-...d2vFsFJ-XL.jpg

Jx

Personally I think it looks particularly good from this angle...

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-...qbmBVhX-XL.png

I'm surprised to see they kept the four separate headlights, I was certain they'd have replaced them with a one-piece plastic assembly for the production spec.

Jx

https://www.yamaha-motor.eu/gb/en/pr...019/techspecs/

Weight is 205kgs wet, with 16 litre tank.

(So basically same weight as my Tiger 800 and my XT660z - both of which have larger tanks).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes it is the USA website.

Here is more info:

Seat height: 34.6inch
Front travel: 8.3inch
Rear travel: 7.9inch
Front wheel: 21inch
Rear wheel: 18inch
Ground clearance 9.5inch
Estimated fuel range: 215miles

Patrick

It is disappointing.

Let's see what Kawasaki will do to replace the KLR650.

that what I've expected based on MT07 weight. For traveling this weight with that engine is OK but tank definitely too small. Looks like I'll keep my old tenere for few more years anyway.

p.s.
somehow nobody want's to jump into 140-160kg wet weight segment for adv bike, must be conspiracy ;)

liking that they kept the flat seat into production, one of my gripes with my 660 ten was the step up in the seat.

right, good for off-road but for traveling I found that step up very comfortable.
I like also Baja style headlight lamp.

looks real good in the photos, shame I'm such a short arse, I found my 660 ten too tall and top heavy. be interesting to see how they price this given that the other bikes using the same engine are very reasonable. I'd like to think this bike comes in shy of £8k but who knows?

If the bike get too expensive, the 2019 cb500x now comes with a 19inch front wheel and an extra 15mm of front suspension.

I'm 5'8" with 30-in inseam, so also 'partially heighted'. Initially I had a lowering link on my 660 Tenere but as I quickly gained confidence I took it off in favour of the increased suspension travel. My method of mounting was a take-off of John Cleese's silly walks.



Yes the 660Z is top heavy but I think that's actually an advantage off-tarmac as it makes it quicker reacting to steering/weighting inputs. My main criticism of the bike was the deep wheel rims which made swapping inner tubes when you have a puncture such a pain.

I had a look at one at the bike show. It looked a good machine. everyone keeping stum about the price and weight but from what i gleen it will be sub £9 in the UK depending upon brexit. seat height at 880mm is a bit much for a 5'5" squirrel like me, but lower seats will be available.



Seat was just right, wide enough for all day but easy enough to move around for balance.



The look was just right to make it appreciable by people in the know but fairly understated when you wern't trying to boast your wealth.



I didn't like the mountings for luggage which made it very wide but I recon this was only put on as a show afterthought so someone will make narrower luggage hangers.



As a side the KTM 790 was much lower, good for someone like me, but it was all hard on and un-sublte. The big tank seemed to bulge out at the side making it seem lardy and also a weak area in a crash.


I'm sure it is technically well ahead and on the sheets appears a long way ahead, but I would feel uneasy parking up in less salubrious parts of the world on such a machine, whereas the Tenere is more subtle.



Just thoughts from my own perspective, but it is really good to see these manufactures taking a decent stab at making really usable all surface bikes like this.



I love lighter bikes because I spend so much time picking them up!


cheers


Dave

it's actually the opposite, having lower center of gravity is better off-road because of low speed maneuvers while top heavy bikes are quicker to move around on tarmac at higher speed on twisty roads.

The turning dynamics are mainly to do with trying to interfere with the stability brought about by the gyroscopic effect of the rotating wheels.

If you are in sand you want to be turning primarily by weighting the pegs. Do this on a BMW 1200 GS and nowt much happens and you carry straight on. Do the same with the Tenere and it turns nicely. This is the advantage of a top heavy bike compared to the beemer with its weight low down.

At speed on tarmac the Tenere with the larger 21-in front wheel is harder to turn than the BMW with its 19-in setup and really needs assistance with deliberate counter steering. This is best demonstrated by riding first the BMW 700GS with its 19-in wheel and then riding what is essentially the same bike, the BMW 800GS with its 21-in wheel.

If the wheels were the same I guess the Tenere might be easier to turn.

looks like great bike for solo traveler, for 2up not so much.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JruP1002Mcg

Does anyone know when the bike is actually going to be starting to be delivery in Europe?

No - but in the meantime you can have a look at this in depth prereview of the T7...

https://youtu.be/1xBLs9_OYUI LOL... ;)

dealer in my town takes orders already, saying it maybe late May,
but other dealer saying not earlier then in fall...
Price is attractive comparing to 790R, less then 10k euros.

It’s a no for me. The main problems are the complicated electrics and that the rear subframe is welded to the main frame and not bolted, a small spill could right off the frame.

In my experience that doesn't happen, not with Yamaha XTs anyway... my 660Z had a one-piece frame and that was rock solid.

Bolt on subframes are primarily for dirt-bikes - for lighter weight and easier [shock] maintenance - I'd have no worries having a one piece frame on an adventure bike - especially one designed to carry a passenger and luggage.

Jx

I agree with JMo for the same reasons.
If the frame is like the 660, it will take quite a prang to bend that subframe.
And if it isn't - like a CRF250L and many similar bikes – just stamp it back in line.

There may of course be plenty of better reasons not to like the 700.

Yamaha said today:
Ténéré 700 will be available at a special, launch price of £8399 (excluding OTR charges and accessories) for those who reserve online.
System will launch at 1pm 27 March!

complicated electronics??? where? abs and that's it, what ktm 790R potential customers supposed to say :)

Regarding frame, mine landed in the ditch many times and no problems, but years ago they built bikes from real steel, not from plastic...

For me a concern is an engine longevity, couldn't find any records even close to 100k km, and some reports of MT07 overheating etc.

if it's anything like my XScrambleR 700, the engine will be the best bit.
Add proper suspension + the Tenere name and it'll be a winner.

Somewhat sarcastic comparison of the Tenere T700 against the base model of KTM's 790 Adventure.

to me new T7 looks like unfinished project, especially at the rear.
Also, what company launch new motorcycle after season...

I bought a Tenere XT660Z in 2009 and for many years I said it was the best 'out of the box' travel bike with its high screen, rally cockpit, large fuel tank and a really wide gear box. It really helped me become a better rider offroad and I remember writing what a marvellous machine it would be if only it could be mated with BMW's 800cc twin and a wide ratio 6-speed box. But boy, was it heavy. And changing tubes was a nightmare with the deep wheel rims.

It seems ages ago that I sold the Tenere but to put dates into perspective, it was actually a year after Yamaha announced the T7. If the company had started deliveries of the T700 a couple of years ago it would have been a roaring success. But it didn't and Yamaha is now launching with what is really quite a dated specification. Times move on and KTM has really moved the goal posts with the 790 Adventure.

By comparison with the KTM 790 Adventure (base model) the T700 lacks decent fuel range, tubeless tyres, traction control, cornering ABS, offroad ABS, ride modes, and 20 bhp of fun. In addition the T700 is likely to be heavier.

What the T700 does have going for it is the price. Will that be enough?