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The Perfect Overlanding Bike?
A friend of mine who is presently riding around the world by M/C sent me the following opinion, for me to comment on. He hasn't yet published his view on the HUBB, so I though I'd do it for him:
Does the perfect bike for overlanding exist? -- Not that I have seen so far. I Believe you need power, low center of gravity, ergonomics/comfort, and drive shaft from original R80G/S (non-paralever); along with the electronics and braking from an Africa Twin. Taking it a step further: Not more than 280kg when fully loaded (including full tank), with a strong frame. 21" front, 18" rear, good ground clearance yet comfortable for long days, small turning radius, dual headlights, good sidestand for grass/dirt, centerstand, 2 cylinders, single exhaust (low and out of the way), self adjusting carbs (for altitude), no fuel pump, proper shock, good engine protection, good airflow/cooling, compact/strong luggage, 400km range tank, and easy to work on.... My comment was: I agree with everything you said... also add: reliable and fixable on the road by a local.... probably means a single cylinder bike... also one that makes the tea in the morning and likes packing up tents. ChrisB |
Chris, I agree with all you wrote, but why "drive shaft R80G/S (non-paralever)"? Whats wrong with the paralever? I have zero experience with beemers, but i've only ever heard that the paralever is the best thing since sliced bread.
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The paralever (up to 1996) is OK but not perfect. They can last between 30km and 80km.
But when they go out it can be as bad as a rear wheel lock up. I replace mine about every 60,000km (40,000 miles.) I have seen at the HPN site that they are putting the paralever from the R1100-1150 bikes on their rally bikes. I have not heard of failures whith those. I think Grant is replacing his non-paralever with a paralever. [This message has been edited by John Ferris (edited 20 February 2003).] |
If you do a search on 'paralever' on the HU site you will find a fair bit of info. Probably generating more questions than answers. Also visit www.bmwmoa.org and you could spend days discussing this topic.
Enjoy ChrisB |
I've got to agree with all the needs in the first post. In fact, that's exactly what my bike is turning out to be (see website). The paralevers up until about 1996 were debatable, ran without oil and have 2 couplings instead of one for the monolever (which also runs in oil). Someone kept some stats on failures. I've got a copy if you want it. Not as bad as you would think by all the messages, but certainly raises an eyebrow.
------------------ Kevin http://www.nohorizons.net |
My shaft has lasted 140kkm, 60kkm in Africa.
Lucky? |
"Definition of the BMW paralever"
an engineering solution for a problem that doesn't exsist!!.....harsh but...true;-) |
Chris,
Yes mate, the perfect motorcycle for long distance overland travel DOES exist. An Aussie bloke by the name of Paul Rooney builds/modifies/improves BMW's to suit any application.He is a mechanical genius and his workmanship is superb. When I can afford it I will get him to build me a bike. He strengthens and braces the frames (then powder coats them), rebuilds or fits whatever suspensions you require, rebuilds the engine (lightening it as well), fitting whatever heads your fantasy desires, he will lengthen the wheelbase and fit early model drive shafts, fit any size front fork tubes, lace up any size rims and fit 4mm spokes and you get to choose the brakes. The damned things go like a scalded cat and handle on the dirt like nothing else. Paul is only a one man operation, so only builds a couple of bikes at one time. (you should see what he is doing to a R1150GS, 21" front wheel and all!!!) This is not a paid advertisement. You can find him in a little Northen New South Wales place called Rileys Hill. This is near Lismore in northern NSW. His telephone number is (02) 6682 8557. With the Aussie dollar how it is, most things down here are cheap for most of the rest of the world! ------------------ Chris |
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The perfect Bike? Different for everyone! Mechanical designe involves compromise. The objectives of light weight, simplicity, strength, power, price, and features are not mutually exculsive but do push in opposite directions. Some strike the balance best with most people, hence the popularity of certain models over others. A look back in history will show people on bikes that don't even come close to the worst compromise availible today happily cruising the continents. Even recently I recount global trips on unlikely bikes like a Honda 500CX, Helix scooter, or Harley.
My take on it? there is no silver bullet. Buy something you can afford that is the closest fit to your matrix of the above characteristics, and modify what you can't live with over the long run. Don't forget to buy something you actually like, and avoid models with big, known character flaws. Sure you can build a $30000 HPN or other, but then what if the thing gets dumped off a boat somewhere? How will you feel about giving it to a shipping company in India? Do you think your insurence will value it higher then the $5000 bike you started with? Having said that, if I had the money I'd be giving HPN a ring. I would just see it as a compromise in another direction...... One of the obvious advantages of used over new is that you have a good chance of knowing what the bike's design problems are before you have to test it! [This message has been edited by Timo (edited 23 April 2003).] |
hola folks,
the perfect overland bike ? you want to travel a long time ? it has to be cheap, and easy to maintain. is a bmw cheap anywhere execept in Germany ? forget comfort, forget drive shafts, forget strange tyre size, forget anything with to much electronic, forget bmw. get it simple and you can travel long long distance ... mika rtw since 1999 on a yamaha 1987 tenere, bought for 1400 USD in 1999 in Germany, now at 200.000km (150.000km on this trip!) yes, its different for everyone :-) |
Agree totally with Mika, different for everybody!
My Enfield Bullet 500CC (now do not start laughing) has lasted me 61.000 km thourgh 25 countries the last 4 years and is still running fine. And no, I do not stay on roads and take the same rough tracks as everybody else (Northern Kenia, Kagahn Valley Pakistan, Cambodia....) Okay I do not do 120 kmp but I want to see some of the country so do not want rush anyway. Besides that a ikes like this open doors everywhere you go. Forget all the techies, just go for it, out in the desert it does not matter if you have a BMW, Africa Twin of Enfield, you are the one who has to fix it. So just choose something you are happy and comfortable with! Ronald Colijn ------------------ Round the world on a Bullet, it can be done! |
Also agree totally with Mika, different for everybody! Experience, size, preferences...
But as an alternative to all the BMW R80/100/1100/1150 GS, what about a offroad-modified Yamaha XJ900S Diversion? It has shaft drive, comfort, reliable and easy engine, large fuel tank, is available and inexpensive as second hand... Heavy yes, but so is the BMW's and they don't seem to be trouble free... With modifications as for example Ohlins with longer wheel travel and increased ground clearance, cross handle bar, no fairing or clocks (only bicycle computer), offroad tyres (rear 130/80x17 backwards on front wheel and 150/70x17 rear wheel)... I have made my mind up to go for it, including an increased fuel tank (approx 45 litre) and some other modifications including weight savings... Dont worry, be happy! |
To see some modifications before it is finished, look at http://www.xs4all.nl/~kimkodde/ydcn.html and click "Bike Picture" and scroll down to "Diversion offroad".
Modifications is for example 45 litre fuel tank, Ohlins with longer rear wheel travel (150mm) and increased stroke on standard fork (150mm), increased ground clearance, engine protection, steering damper, 12 volt plug for GPS and camera charger, cross handle bar, no fairing or clocks (only bicycle computer), offroad tyres (rear 130/80x17 backwards on front wheel and 150/70x17 rear wheel), etc... |
Two words: "Scary" and "Fabulous"
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WOW... Please post more pýctures!!
safe travells, m. |
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and click on Bike Pictures and Yamaha Diversion Offroad. See you in Africa! Skonte |
Hi All
One to think about, more and more people are using Imo style computers You've got all your eggs in one basket if it goes wrong. The fitting to the wheel/fork is not the best I've seen. Are clocking going to be a safer option even though they are heavier. Cheers Julio |
Hi Julio
It depends on how you attach the things, I have now been riding for three months without any problems. The trip included approx 15.000 km on rough pistes in West Africa and a lot of rain in Ghana on gravel/mud roads. Give it some protection, and it will be fine, as long as you choose some quality stuff. Standard clocks and vajer are also breakable. Rgs Skonte |
Here is some pictures (bilder) from the trip;
http://groups.msn.com/skonte/vlkommen.msnw but the text is mainly in swedish, pardon! |
Perfect adv bike? for my take have a look here:
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb...ML/000303.html IMO, something that you can shoot when lame without crying into your carnet is always desirable Farmer Chris |
I have diven Yamaha xt 600's & 500's, Kawasaki KLR650's, owned a Suzuki DR600,
and I have worked on these bikes. And I can say without a doubt in my mind that there is no comparison to these bikes and the BMW models. Starting with the price of parts: BMW keep all parts available for all models from 1970. Most parts even though in some cases being more expensive will outlast the parts of the Japanese models by three to four times in most cases. And most importantly BMW dealers are found almost everywhere. Most of them will keep most regularly needed parts in stock and if not it will take two days to get supplyed by the main supplier, or three weeks to get the parts from BMW Motorrad in Germany.( This is the case in South Africa and might differ for other aireas.) To get to the other part of being the perfect touring bike I think you need to add somewhat to the already good design to make it perfect, and the right people for this is HPN in Germany. HPN built the Dakar Ralley bikes for the BMW factory and on the basis of these models are they building custom bikes dealing directly with thier clients. The options is so varied that everyone should find a sulotion to thier unique travel problems. Basicaly these bikes are indistructeble, very simple and have brilliant handeling characteristics. The motors can be made to produce good power for most comfortable slow tourers or can be turned into power monsters that will keep you hanging on for dear life. But most importantly they fullfil all the requirements of the first mesage posted in this thread. |
Sorry guys, but
if it's really got to be german, I'd vote for an MZ Baghira. State of the art frame, Marzocchi fork, WP at the rear. Fix a ktm adventure tank on it and the XTZ660 ténéré engine will take you anywhere. And for the price of 1 HPN, I'd have 4 brand new motorcycles, as they still produce them. Even if yamaha engine parts would be harder to find, which I doubt, I'd still be better off because they don't break down in the first place. |
IMHO It would have to be Japanese. I'd avoid any of the junk BMW churn out. Four BMW's and all have had faults. One, F650GS, I bought brand new was so bad I got my money back. The 1200GS I recently sold was faultless for three weeks before it developed a fault and the dealer had it for ten days trying to locate the fault and that was with the aid of a diagnostic computer. What chance would you have in the middle of nowhere ? LB.
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Although it hurts me to admit it,i must agree with the above comment.I've had BM's and Jap's of various ages/sizes over the last 20 years and although i really,really want to convince myself that the BM's are better....i can't.And of all the Jap's i've had,the ones that have come out tops as far as strength and hardyness are concerned,are Honda.
------------------ Just going for a short ride on my bike.... |
I have a question regarding the "easily fixed by a local" bit. Is there really a good reason for not knowing how to fix your own bike? I understand that you may not have certain special tools, but arrangements can be made. I know a lot of people are not that mechanically/electrically inclined, but it is really not a difficult subject to learn (my opinion only, of course). Why do people prefer to not know how?
Just my two cents on some of the others... If you don't go that fast, you don't need a lot of power, what you really need is just a good range of gears. A smaller motor with a wide range of gears is smaller, lighter, and will get better fuel economy. I just bought a Honda VTR 250 motor on eBay. I am going to try to convert it to turbo-diesel. If it works, I will post. The next step would be a 3 or 4 speed rear wheel (overlanding really only needs two, but I want to see how high I can get my fuel economy on the highway). If that works, then I make a unibody (body as structural member like a newer car) chassis. Why unibody? A unibody is the most efficient way to make a structure. If I make the luggage an integral portion of the structure, the whole thing gets lighter weight. I intend to make the structure out of composites (mostly kevlar), which allows repairs to be made on the side of the road with spare pieces of cloth and little packets of epoxy. The last thing to do will be to make sure that enough nooks and crannies are sealed luggage (front and back panniers, etc.) that the whole thing will float. Why does everybody need a floating motorcycle? Just because. :-D Ideally I would also want two wheel drive, but only if I could keep it light and robust. Lots and lots of winter projects.... Matthew McLaughlin |
Whatever happened to the Diesel KLE being developed for the millitary. If that was ever available to te public I think that would be the 'perfect travel bike'. LB.
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Perhaps the perfect travel bike (for the third world anyway) would be a bike that looks like a local farmers low capacity trail bike but with the power of a 600 big single? And with suspension to match. I've bought the bike for my trip now but the more I think about it the more I want a bike that does not isolate me from the locals. My XT600e may be a reasonable compromise between power, carrying capacity and "Who me? Rich foreigner? Nah, look at me salt of the earth old traily" looks. However, the screen I've fitted and the big ally boxes look a bit flash. I may paint the boxes green and remove the screen when I get to the hot/dry countries if I feel a bit conspicous.
Matt |
Hi Matt,
Just don't wash the bike, it'll soon look the part. My MZ baghira with dirt looks great even with the patched up screen from a recent off in the dirt from Potosi to Uyuni - Bike and driver survived, nearside tourtech box wasn't so well off!!!!!! Best wishes Alec. Very dirty Baghira |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Livotlout:
[B]Hi Matt, Just don't wash the bike, it'll soon look the part. An option that appeals to me. Always take the path of least resistance (or work!) I say! Matt |
Just bought a Honda XLV650 Transalp
It is awesome ..half the price of the R1200 and just as much fun. Runs on unleaded petrol etc etc Honda quality |
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Check this site http://www.ratbike.org/
Lots of possibilities |
Ktm400/450/525 Exc
How about a KTM400/450/525? They are light, strong, have great components and build quality and are excellent off-road bikes. You can get large tanks (24litres that will get you over 500km). They are road-legal with good lights etc. If you pack light, then you can ride trails rather than road-bashing the whole way.
I've read articles that say it is no use riding a competition bike because once you load them up, you'll never get any benefit. I agree that bikes get worse as you load them up but if you start with excellent handling then it might only be degraded to average. If you start with an over-weight poor- handling bike then it will become abominable. I've owned 3 KTMs over the years and despite riding them hard, they have proved reliable. The engines are works of art internally with things like split-shell needle rollers on the gearbox main shaft and twin oil pumps/filters. Counterbalancer means no vibes at any speed. Electric and kick-start (still works with a flat battery). Don't be put off by the short service intervals (recommended 20 hours between oil-changes). these are for competition, not for trail-riding or transport. The seats are too hard of course but over all they are made for tough going not pretend trail-riding like the dual-purpose bikes from Japan. I recently rode a tough wet event in NZ with a full 23 litre tank "just to see what it was like" and found it manageable. I see that there is a company that runs tours in Morocco that uses the KTM450. Is this the beginning of a sea-change? |
Does the perfect bike for overlanding exist? -- Not that I have seen so far.
What, are you German? ;-) (we need some smilies here) |
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What are you going to do with the bike? Where are you going to take the bike...and yourself? What are your comfort requirements...for your plan? What weight will you accept for your travel plans? What level of self-maintenance are you willing to accept? Is improvisation in your plans or will you depend upon dealer/shop support? I will refrain from commenting about some of the new bikes being marketed for 'world travel'. Your comment about having basic mechanical ability is right on. but, you know, anything can be fixed now-a-days with enough money...:) A 49cc moped, fat-tired chopper, DL, DR, XL, R1, etc...'can' all do it. What wins in the end, after all the crying and best laid plans are put to bed....enthusiasm and percerverance. Ride on...... |
Back in '03 I talked about a "Rooney Special". I have since done about 100,000kms on a bike Paul Rooney built. Australia to the UK via Asia and the KKH, etc, and back via Norway, Finland, Russia and Mongolia etc. to Japan. Many trips through the desert in Australia as well. Have I had problems? Yes. Will I get another bike for my trip through the "Stans" next year? No bloody way!! Want one, ring Paul on +61266828557.
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Whilst we are talking bikes and fixing them. Being a newbie to overland trips I thought I would do a motorcycle maintenance course first, this has changed my mind about what I can and can't fix and although I love my R1200GS I think I will have something a lot simpler. Leaning towards the 200-400 single cyclinder trailies. I reserve the right to change my mind once Ive finished the course. For those new West London Merton College run the courses.
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10 years ago I had the same thought: I sold my r80 and I bought a yamaha tt 600. I just went from Italy to Turkey, less than a week after I came back I gave it back to a garage for an AT. yes a single is much easier to fix......... but it is really a pain to your bum :Beach: |
Is this the archeology thread? Seems it started a while back :rofl:
I'm of the firm belief there is no right answer. Your perfect bike is the one you know. An R1200GS shipped direct from the dealer to Touratech Germany to me would be just as much my idea of hell as a C90 I picked up from a seller called Pizzaguy on e-bay. My perfect bike is a Triumph ( I've seven years experience of the exact model) that's had the benefit of 12 months use and mods. Sure, no paralever, multilever or flushlever, but I can swap that chain in my sleep. 21-inch front wheels and carbs versus FI, a lot of it is just games of top trumps for the arm chair warriors, it's what you carry in your head on your trips that counts. I've seen an Africa twin that produced something that looked like tea. Might have tasted a bit oily/anti-freezy though. :thumbdown: Andy |
no idea how this "archeological" thread was "discovered":laugh:
I do agree the knowledge of your bike is the best medicine for any mechanical foult....but you need to experience a long trip on a single versus a twin to understand the issue. To ride a Drifter or GoldWing is not the same thing:nono: I love Triumph scrambler....but think there is no point in discussing in details about liquid leakage as fixing the bike is considered part of "triumph experience" just like ducati :Beach: :biggrin3: |
Quite simply, there isnt one !
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Actually, that is another requirement for my pefect bike. Must not be named after ancient machinery that'll attract people who'd be just as happy with a mechano set and an observer book of trains! There again ThreewheelT790 doesn't quite have the same ring to it. :offtopic: Andy |
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Go and take a few "test rides" - only way to be sure :mchappy: |
If Hinkley bikes are so wonderful, why don't I want one ?
It is sad, as I have fond memories of three ultra reliable Triumphs that took me well over 100k miles yet I view Hinkley as Japan(UK) Ltd. It wasn't until two years ago That I had my first ever electrical fault that hindered my progress, and that was on a BMW. So far on my Enfield the only part that has failed has been a Japanese (Denso) starter solenoid). No doubt I will learn more as time goes by. At least it caused me no problems as the bike usually starts first kick :) |
Perfect bike
Is there a perfect bike? I've been riding for more than 35 years! Have put two legs over everything from Honda QA 50's to 2000cc plus Harley Monsters. Have'nt found the perfect one yet....But if you like it (or love it) and can fix it... then ride it! Just carry the xtra parts you know you will need and then hope for the best. No matter how prepared you are there will always be problems. Just prepare yourself (and your bike) and go for it.:thumbup1:
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Riding most anywhere else in the world, a 650 single is the bike of choice for many. Much better / more comfortable / faster on pavement than a 400, better suited for luggage, and yet still light and maneuverable enough to tackle sand and mud. And just as easy to work on. Two cents ... :thumbup1: |
KTM (640 adventure?) frame with a Honda engine. Or anything designed for the Paris Dakar rally (as in, the exact bike you could turn up to the start line with, not a production copy) and then detuned.
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