Voge 300 GY Rally
 

Now this looks interesting, except that its chinese then….

https://www.rideapart.com/news/55405...nveiled-eicma/

It certainly looks the part but being Chinese there's the temptation to tar it straight away with its predecessors shortcomings. And if it's only going to be £4000 or so how good can it be for that sort of money? I've no idea really but it did get me wondering about the rush to judgement that seems to accompany most Chinese offerings.

It was only a week or so ago that the Mutt 250's shortcomings were highlighted here. Is this another Mutt or have there been any Chinese bikes that are worthy of consideration - not just as value for money, but actually good bikes, and with a dealer backup that's more than 'while stocks last'.

A cheaper less reliable CRF 300 rally? It's good that it exists, but it's not for me.

Mate of mine sells Lexmoto scooters. Sells 1 or 2 a week and, he says, that they rarely come back with issues, just for servicing.

If people are looking at this as an alternative to the CRF300 as an overland travel bike my concerns would be spares availability and resale value rather than quality, the Chinese seem to be getting better with how they build their bikes but the back up will take a while to match Honda.

20% more power.

BMW and KTM
 

And both BMW and KTM's smallest models are manufactured in India.

And so what? What has India to do with China if I may ask?????

I guess what he is saying is India and China have build many a poor bike. Recent years India has upped their game. Likewise so have the Chinese. Manufacturers have sent decent tooling equipment there and are monitoring quality control. China are getting there. If they get a network around the world they MAY dominate one day. A bit like the Japanese did with the British bikes industry. Most of Triumph bikes parts are made abroad and then built up here. The Chinese are a coming.
Relentless.
Give them 15 to 20 years

I noted a Voge 300 for sale on HUBB last July. Bought in Chile, it had done 15,000 kms at the time the 'for sale' notice was placed, apparently with no mechanical problems. Here's the thread.

Voge 300 Rally: 2000 mile test ride to the Alps
video by Nathan The Postman

By accident I just saw the Voge 300 Rally review by Nathan last night.

It seems to be a decent bike indeed. At least for its size and intended use.
It needs servicing each 3 k miles/5 k kms. So it will be more expensive to service in a lifespan than a Crf300 - for a comparison.

And as Mark Manley wrote earlier in the thread - the main concern if used as a overland bike will be parts availability and resale value.

According to the manufacturer or a 3rd party test ?

The problem in China is almost cultural. They lie. I'm yet to meet a Chinese supplier who regrets anything except getting caught. The driver has never been to supply the best casting/circuit board/brake chamber or the best value for money, but to do the least work for the most personal gain. Many a quality manager has openly told me this, which is perversely honest and entirely workable once known.

This is why there is a vast difference between a proper western brand made in China and something entirely Chinese. Set the task and measure sucess ( with personal financial rewards) of protecting the brand by making a good vehicle and the Chinese will do it. Leave them alone and they are yet to decide to (unless you were to expect Sym to share the cultural aspects, in which case "mainland China" will get there in 50 years time).

Comparison with India or Thailand is as crazy as including Munich or Detroit, unless you want to go back to Victorian times before Heinz, Kelloggs, Ford etc. decided to brand build.

Eventually a Chinese brand with limited experience of Japanese or Western longer term practices will do it. They'll stock parts, honour warranty etc. to build their brand. I'll let someone else find out if this company is the one. The fact they decided not to market it under some defunct western name encourages me.

Andy

And then I found MUTT motorcycles!

250cc used to be the learner limit of course. https://muttmotorcycles.com/collecti...for-sale/250cc

With all the 20mph zones in London it might make sense to go for a low power bike.

Some of them look like they are getting there - I have heard very positive first-hand testimony from CFMoto owners.

The problem is definetively cultural, no doubt about. As long as quick profit can be done - everything goes. Some of the chinese products I have bought and I have seen others bought are simply so bad that it will be incorrect to call them junk. Its below that. Just saw a fb posting about an adjustable sidestand for a motorbike. It broke/fractured the first day!:censored:

I suppose one could point to Enfield as some sort of evidence that developing nations don't build good bikes without big-brand western backers pulling their strings, but even that venerable brand has vocal supporters. Equally we could look back 50 years to the taunts of "Jap Crap" from British bike owners... it only took about 10 years for the Japanese to wipe out the British bike industry, so why should anyone think the Chinese aren't willing or able to establish themselves as suppliers of motorcycles to rival anything on the market now?

OK they have started with a low cost mindset which does lead to corner cutting for the domestic market, but other Chinese products are already competing with the world's best (they are becoming dominant in the auto market outside Europe, let's not even get onto phones and IT) and they are technically capable and motivated to make something that occupies profitable "high end" markets not only the cheap end.

Write them off at your peril, and in the meantime a wise man will assess their products for what they are, not where they're built.

I've toured the BMW Factory in Spartenburg, South Carolina, several times. BMW has an interesting way of maintaining standards overseas. All the production and assembly equipment for all of the third party suppliers and also the overseas factory, is supplied by BMW, so the metal presses, the robot welders, the marriage gear (when engine/gearbox is mated with rest of vehicle), and so forth.

Not only does this allow standards to be maintained, it also ensures that news of model changes doesn't leak out of third parties or the overseas plant as the gear for the revised model is only delivered a couple of weeks before production starts.

I've sat on one in a showroom, it seemed ok but the gear shifter was solid so would get bent if dropped which put me off a bit. I later saw the same bike being used on a trail while I was walking my dogs, sounded nice and looked nice.

As for Chinese built bikes in general, I had an UM DSM Adventure for a bit and it was really nice. If the 200cc version was available in Europe I'd be on one of those TBH, the 125 needed a bit more torque for actual off-roading.

Enfield are pulling themselves up in terms of quality - they are not using big-brand western backers. Yes, there are a few niggles but there are with many, many motorbikes and brands.

As you have said, write them off at your peril.