Spot on! Voice of experience there ... are you listening Robson?
Skill and fitness really count. Both can and will be developed somewhat on the road ... if you survive that learning curve then you'll be better equipped.
But having fitness and skill before setting out is preferred.

So true about the small bike not being good on long highway runs. Compromises. Middle ground is where I've ended up, after exploring both ends from 250's to 1000cc bikes. I've pushed to get even lower weight than Ted's 250 kgs. I'm at about 206 kgs. on my DR650. (fully fueled/loaded)

A good tall man 650 bike would be the Honda XR650L. Inexpensive and with a few key mods, very good travel bike. The Art Of Packing Light is another thread ... and is a key element in happiness on the road.


IMHO, the NC750X would be a poor choice for a travel bike.
Quite over weight, expensive and will not survive a crash well at all. Too delicate for any even moderate off road.
Once loaded, will be a beached whale.

For leg room ... you don't need a BIGGER bike, just a TALLER bike. See Honda XR650L ... or if you have money to burn,
any KTM 640 or 690. Even the lower KLR or DR650 can suit a tall rider with a built up seat, lowered pegs and bar risers.
No bike is perfect out of the crate ... they ALL need careful mods to suit.

You've got all completely wrong, wet weight 219kg while most bigger adventure bikes are at 259kg that is heavy for you? Expensive??? come on, from where you get your numbers? it's probably the cheapest from the adventure bunch. But it has also other advantages over other bikes - it's probably the most economical bike off all, 3.1 l/100km! Just finished 900km trip over weekend, very comfortable seat, very nimble, very low center of gravity hence very good at low speeds. Tested offroad and it's also excellent. I suggest ride the bike before you criticize it. It is an excellent travel bike.

Glad that NC750 is working out for you! I wished you had disclosed you owned this bike when you started this thread a month back. You could have given us wisdom on the Optimal Bike Weight topic right from the start! :innocent:

You are correct, I've never ridden the bike, only really followed the original NC700. Not sure the 750 is for sale in USA. Reminds more of a big scooter with the DCT. Tests put NC750 weight at 229 kgs. and 54 HP. Cost is about $10,000 usd. (£6800)

Reviews I've read on the NC700/750 voiced several complaints beyond the subjective judgement of the reviewer that his Coffee Maker has more personality.(Visor Down) :cool4: Complaints continued, pointing out a wonky chassis, marginal brakes and the Auto clutch trans was not always in the right gear. But a lot to like too ... pottering round, comfy, smooth but uninspiring.

My worry would be that all that plastic would explode when you flip it into a ditch at just 20 mph. Even a low side might be bad news? What's a new set cost? :eek3:

That's just one of many reasons why, IMHO, it may not be an ideal Adventure travel bike. As a street only machine, I'm sure it's fine. Glad you're having a ball ... that's what it's all about. bier

The 17" front tire is another reason I won't be riding one. Wide street tires really suck on gravel or dirt roads, add ruts, mud and loose rocks ... good luck. Been there, done that. No bueno.

As a quick comparo ... Honda XR650L and DR650 both weigh 147 kgs. dry. Think about power to weight ratio here compared to your NC. Now add enough luggage to go cross continent.

XR-L and DR650 cost around $6000 USD new, but can be had all day for $3500 for near mint used ones. The best thing about both are how indestructible they are. They crash well, easy, cheap to repair.

No, the DR and XR-L will not be as comfortable as your NX and fewer creature comforts, and I do love the NC fuel economy. :thumbup1:
Test I read quoted 55 MPG. My DR gets 50 MPG.

So, to answer your question ... yes, to me it's both a bit heavy and a bit on the expensive side. Aesthetics aside (which put off many riders) it seems to have a few negatives. I've never seen one here in San Fran area ... but could mistake it for a big scooter. :scooter:

What do these plastics actually do? I am pretty unfamiliar with the NC.


To me if they hold the headlight a la Weestrom they need protecting by either careful use or bars/guards etc. (more weight). If they are just cosmetic either leave them at home for the day you want to sell the bike or let them (like the rest of any travel bike) get cosmetically trashed.


I've taken the fairing off a BMW K100 (some of that fibreglass would be nigh on indestructible at 15mm thick, it would be thinner bits like mounting tags that break but can be fixed). With a blade type screen you could still use the 80HP on the motorway. As an outfit weight matters much less, but the beast was surprisingly good on sand and gravel mostly because there was a decent tyre choice.


All just the balance of choices the user chooses to make as usual.


Andy

ok, this is my last response to your nonsense mollydog.

Show me today a bike not full of plastic, even bikes which cost twice as ncx, at least I have full steel frame. Besides tell me what is the advantages of having more metal parts as wind covers, mud guards etc :rolleyes2:

17 inch wheels? your comments reveals only lack of experience. Been ridding on smaller wheels for years and don't see really any benefits of 21 inch except heavy off-road although even that not in every case. Have a look at 1200 ducati multistrada, great adventure bike on 17 inch wheels. Wider tyes are better on sand BTW.

DR650? :D top heavy unstable bike.

ok, don't have time for this.

After tapping away on my calculator that fuel economy works out at close to 90mpg. Is that for real? Is that what you got over your 900km trip? I'd heard they were good on fuel but that could convert me. Apart from a few occasions with my old XR600 I've never owned a serious travel bike that has regularly returned more than about 60mpg. My 125 Suzuki only does about 70-75mpg on a long journey as it's ridden flat out but whether that's a serious travel bike is open for debate.

I suppose that's the crux of this discussion; what constitutes an adventure trip? Does a 900km tarmac weekend count or does it have to be a multi week / month overland expedition with much of it off road? Personally I don't care much for definitions but a bike suitable for one of those trips is unlikely to be optimal for the other.

I'm currently planning (been talking about dates for it while typing this reply) a trip with a 500+kg bike covering about 12000km next year. Does that count as an adventure trip or is is just a long bike ride? If I use the 125 on the Mongol rally (possible plan B) am I adventuring or going on a package tour? I've no idea nor am I bothered about it but I suspect the optimal weight for both of those alternatives is going to be somewhat different.

for those who think 21 inches wheels is the only on for offroad...

http://cdn.rideapart.com/wp-content/...2/IMG_1176.jpg

and the review from rideapart, where they say ncx is a swiss army knife bier

http://rideapart.com/articles/rideap...w-honda-nc700x

yes, that's real 3.1 l/100km average on my 900km trip which constituted mostly of mountain, curvy, tarmac roads, and maybe 15% gravel roads. Bike is perfect, could be a little bit taller for me but it's still OK. The weight is spot on, not horrible heavy offroad and not light on highway.

I wouldn't worry about adventure definition. As long you are experiencing adventure that's all that count :thumbup1:

and ducati multistrada offroad on 17 inches wheels:

http://images.motorcycle-usa.com/Pho...hootout-38.jpg

bigger bike doesn't necessarily mean a greater distance from seat to pegs.

the issue as I understand it is cramped legs, again you don't need to have a bigger bike.
but if people just want to argue the issue to justify going bigger, have at it.

I still stand by my origal comment,
I addressed the issue, made my seat taller, and dropped the pegs.

Robson,
I would love to see your bike in action, let's meet at the Oasis guest house in UB next summer. I will get some tracks from Mr. Colebatch for the altai region, and have some fun, I will do my best in keeping up..

Edd, then you'd have too small ground clearance hence no longer a dual sport bike machine :rolleyes2: I understand what you're saying but I think just making the seat higher could make bike less stable as it was not designed for it.
I think I finally get it why some adventure bikes are so tall like e.g. yamaha Tenere XT660z. Good ground clearance and good body position.

p.s.
if I ever be nearby Oasis will be glad to meet you and have fun bier

2 answers
 

Optimal weight? As light as possible.

That is the short glib answer but the useful answer is this one:

- highest weight you can still lift by yourself.

Frankly, I don't know what that is for myself even. I was able to lift my loaded DR650SE and I was able to lift my unloaded KTM 990 but can I lift a KTM 1190 Adventure R with hard panniers, the option I am considering next? I don't know..

A little off-topic but are there any aids for lifting bikes? Jacks? Harnesses? That might change the answer to this as well...

I think the optimal weight would be 0 kg but like allways you have to take some compromises. Single cylinger bikes dont like long highway use, water cooling helps you in the desert, light bikes cant carry as much stuff as big bikes and old heavy bikes are more easy to repair and dont have a high loss of value as modern hightech bikes. The optimal bike for me was a 700 Euro Transalp with 200 kg, wich I could sell for the same price after the trip:

http://motorradtouren-suedamerika.de...en_transafrika

You mean right off the ground? If you can do that with a DR650 nevermind a KTM 1150 you're in a different league to me. What do they feed you on in the US? :rofl:

Or do you mean pick it up when it falls over. Usually the adrenaline rush that follows dropping it helps but you pay for it the next day when overstrained bits start hurting. I'll admit that a GoldWing that had upended itself on an alpine pass was beyond me though. It took two others to do that one. :(

The below video makes it look easy ... and it's true, a BMW Boxer is easier as cylinders rest on the ground, so bike is not flat on the ground. In mud or sand, this technique does not work so well. :nono:

A BMW is much easier to lift ... but a bike with panniers is easier too as panniers keep bike UP a bit, easier for you to get under it and get it up right.

With a loaded KTM 1190 first thing to do is get help if you can. Then take off as much luggage as possible.

I've lifted a fallen KTM 950 with just a tail pack on it. It was pinning the fallen rider ... so I had to lift it solo. He was screaming in agony so my adrenalin was pumping ... NOT GOOD. (This is when guys ruin their back for life)

I was lucky. I got it up enough so he could crawl out from under it ... then the two of us hoisted it up right. A real BITCH! This was on loose desert sandy dirt. But the KTM lays down very flat ... it's hard to get the lift started using the technique shown in video below. I tried backing into it ... could not do it ... my feet just slipped as I tried to push. Also, no good hand holds on the bike.

If fallen on a hill and you don't care about scratching up your bike, try spinning the bike round so that you can lift it up from the UP HILL side ... but once put up right the common disaster is the bike topples over the other side ... and tumbles on down the hill. :helpsmilie:
Been there, done that. doh

BMW bike lifting video - Yahoo Search Results

Evermore,
I remember your ride report on ADV Rider from S. America. Great stuff.
Would you really trust a KTM vs. your DR650 in Bolivia or Mongolia? :innocent: Did you ever have problems with your DR650 in S. America?

I've owned 3 KTM's ... still have my DR650 at 55,000 miles and counting.
:scooter::scooter::scooter: