what we need to be aware of when buying new bike today?
 

1- companies are saving money on everything
2- safety of rider is not that important any more
3 -what else???

http://mattsnook.com/bmw/bmwXCountry...m/IMG_5504.jpg

More of the same.

http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps32aad3db.jpg

http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps6ea9fb56.jpg

http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/a...psf3d6621c.jpg

Mezo.

I love the lowering kit on the 1200 GS.....:clap::clap::tt2:

Is that your bike? What happened there?
A few XCountry swingarm have bust ... jumping! They're not made for it!
Do the same thing on that Honda of yours and you'll end up in a similar situation.

How are your long distance test rides on the KTM 690 and Triumph Tiger 800 going? :rofl:

If you wanna play rough on rough terrain ... you gotta have:
The Right Tool For the Job!

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-a...640/wheel1.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-_...0/IMG_5492.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-r..._hU4Vg-M-1.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-F...s800/047-L.jpg

Well whilst watching the Dakar the other week & in every single commercial break there was an advert from BMW with guys blasting through the Australian outback on their GS`s with flashy music & a voice over man telling us how good they are in the rough stuff.

The parting clip shows a guy pulling a monster wheelie on dirt, that would suggest to me that the bikes they are showing are capable of that particular feat, no?

From the pictures above it would suggest using caution when pulling such wheelies that are endorsed on BMW`s official TV advert.

Mezo.

I have to admit, those BMW ads are quite impressive! But you could put a pro stunt rider on a Honda Gold Wing and get similar antics I guess. :innocent:

I think the big GS's are tougher these days and I think BMW are doing more actual off road R & D work. Younger crew of guys working there now ... guys who ride. Ride a new one ... impressive bike.

But the fact is ... and BMW freely admit it ... only about 10% of GS customers will ever ride their GS beyond it's limits off road ... and most will stay on the road. bier

But the advertising still suggest "off road adventure" and like this one it says "UNSTOPPABLE"

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTU0MFgxND...UwOWF/$_57.JPG

Oh wait, the bike split in two again. :rofl:

http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps97af74f1.png

And another fail !!

http://tiffanystravels.smugmug.com/O...200%20gs-M.jpg

Mezo.

C: "What do you reckon Ewan? they are really shit eh buddy"

E: "Im saying nothing Thingy"

http://i.imgur.com/aImhyk3.jpg

OK so im bashing GS owners, but hey you fell for the BS not me. :blushing:

Mezo.

And why stop with the two "actors" who made your decision in the showroom, a few more pics of epic structural failures.

http://www.adventuresinfinite.com/Mo...Bike/bike1.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/2uiiy2w.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/2d6odwn.jpg

http://andyw-inuk.smugmug.com/Motorc...ve_burnt-L.jpg

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...8/DSCN0983.jpg

http://images.copart.com/website/dat...3251063_1X.JPG

OK you GS owners will say im just bashing BMW`s, this is not the case.

I would gladly own an old school airhead any day, but i would never own or ride a modern GS POS.

I own a few XT600 Tenere`s (30 years old) go anywhere & do anything without the bloody thing snapping in two.

Don`t fall the the marketing crap you see on the Gogglebox, its there just to make some other ***** rich, not for your safety or enjoyment.

Mezo.

I have to go along with the general flow of this thread. In the way of. I would never buy a BMW. So many people have said either they have had trouble with them or, it was the best thing they done when they sold it on.
John933

Nothing wrong with the older Beemer`s John, as ive said id own one tomorrow but the modern stuff is total junk, some more epic failures.

F650`s.

http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/...w/DSC02266.jpg

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f2...f650gs/gs3.jpg

http://www.f650gs.crossroadz.com.au/.../Fork2JimT.jpg

http://www.f650gs.crossroadz.com.au/.../Fork1JimT.jpg

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/962/forksn.jpg

There are so many pictures out there of BMW structural failures its beyond a joke now, its plain dangerous.

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/i...rokenArrow.jpg

This stuff should never happen on any motorcycle let alone the market leader.

Mezo.

I must say, one of the older BMW's. Think it was/is a K1000? has the big block shape engine. Look's more like a large house brick. Always have a second look at one of them. Some how they kind of appeal to me.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_K100
John933

Want a BMW with street cred? build yourself a HPN, it will go anywhere without snapping in two or the front wheel falling off, more importantly you will get utmost respect & god like worship wherever you park it.

http://www.hpn.de/bilder/high_resolu...-dakar86_2.jpg

Mezo.

I find that most people don't notice the difference between a HPN and a GS so they leave you alone. Might have something to do with the colors, mine is a bit more discrete.

BMW is the most common brand used by people on the HUBB, so I guess they are doing something right

The sure do they marketing thing right......:wave:

BMW are the best (at marketing) motorcycle company in the world ATM :nono:

Interesting that the majority of the failures shown are castings and many are components that are specific to the bike. If you buy a million castings like Ford you can spread out the cost of the x-rays and ultrasonic testing. If you only want 500 you have to fabricate, or buy of the shelf or at least use prototyping techniques as the tooling costs are silly. BMW possibly have the perfect storm of many weird variants each in relatively small numbers.

Weight is the driving factor as much as cost. You'll all pan any new bike that has a spec sheet showing half a ton, yet BMW owners want the active suspension and other added weight.

Andy

exactly right, I never heard of older bike splitting in half or that forks snapped. All important parts were made from hard steel not aluminium.

I'd suggest to stop that idiotic trend with heavy 1200cc bikes which must use very light components not to be even more heavy. When we add companies cuts and savings because of the economy, eco mania etc then we have problems, big safety problems. Ironically ABS is a must in almost all new models :)

2014 BMW R1200RT Owners Advised Not to Ride Their Motorcycles – Potentially Critical Suspension Defect

guys please remember not to ride your motorcycle :nono:

:clap: hilarious...

Nick name for those K series bikes (K75, K100, K1100, K1200) was "Flying Brick". Possibly the worst series of bikes BMW ever produced. (IMHO)

The new in-line four (SS1000 and related models) is MUCH better, stronger, simpler and more reliable. What's that? They copied the design from the
Suzuki GSXR1000? It's true, and BMW even admitted it. :rofl:

But they've beat Suzuki at their own game. The Beemer motor is better!

Yes, this appears outrageous ... but do you know BMW's history?

Just a few short years ago BMW would have ignored the problem, would say it does not exist and blame any problems on the owner. They used this exact tactic for years.

It finally back fired ... BMW had to CLEAN house and expunge all the old guard. The mere fact that BMW jumped on this problem and copped to it is a HUGE step forward for BMW.

MANY of the Japanese OEM's are far less forthcoming ... take the recurrent blown 3rd gear on the old DR650's! Suzuki has been SILENT on this, yet it's documented back at least 10 years of failures and still occurs on even new-ish DR650's. :eek3:

You're right, the adverts are total BS ... so tell me what else is new? :helpsmilie:

So, you've ridden the latest R12 GS WC then? I never said I'd own one (can't afford it!) but I have ridden one. "Fell for it"? haven't owned a BMW since the 1980's. But have ridden all the GS's.

I never rode Dakar on the LC GS or crossed the outback ... but on a nice twisty road, it was good fun and noticeably better than previous generations ... which I have hundreds of hours riding. (R1100, R1150, R1200)

The new GS rides even lighter than previous R12GS. Stunning brakes, great balance and control, plush suspension on bumpy paved roads. Low fatigue, low effort. High confidence. It's a good motorcycle, IMO.

Would I trust it fully loaded, hammering across Baja? No frickin' way! :rofl:

For the sake of balance, and clarity
 

Regarding your point number 2, your post number 20 in here contradicts you completely: the event you identify in post 20 went as follows, as I recall -- BMW did a recall and provided replacement bikes to those effected by the recall in the UK for the time that the bikes were off the road; the new water cooled RT were replaced with loan bikes, usually water cooled GSs, and the local dealers had to step up to the plate and deal with this, often providing their own demo bikes.
They also collected the machines from the owners for the recall work because "they could not be ridden". As an anecdote, it is said that one UK registered bike was recovered from mainland Europe and the owner, on vacation at the time, was provided with a replacement bike to continue the holiday.
In the USA, because those guys are much more prone to go to law very quickly, they did something along the same lines and made compensation payments to the owners - I forget the details but it was in the order of a few 1000 US$ per customer.
All this was done for a safety-related recall; contrary to your point 2 above.
I don't know of another manufacturer that would provide anything like this level of service; maybe you do?

"Which Bike"
"What we need to be aware of when buying a new bike today"
Just how unrelated can a thread become to both the forum and its own title; it needs to go into the BMW thread so that all potential purchasers can be aware (of something or other).

nonsense on all counts - this is not about bmw, all brands are welcome.
Cannot helped beamer is screwed up the most. Cost cutting saving are visible all around, in case of my honda luckily so far only bending ignition keys (saving on metal I guess). Who knows what next, never happened in 30 years to me that my keys are so soft that melt in hand...

how about F800GS cracked tanks?

Anyone noticed fuel tank plastic cracking? - BMW F800 Riders Forum & Registry

F800GS Cracked Gas Tanks

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...kRideSide2.jpg

http://f800riders.org/photoplog/imag...1_IMG_1114.jpg

another cost cutting, no QA savings...

Temperature wrong or contamination in the moulding process IMHO. Another example of the effects of short production runs? If you make it thicker you add weight and cost which marketing and accounts dislike.

Quality cannot be inspected in. Quality is what the supplier wants to do. I have been a supplier to BMW. We partied when we lost the job, there are other customers who help and inspire rather than expecting you to sort problems they cause.

Andy

Quality, or Zen and the art of ..................
 

QA, now there's a topic that rarely gets a mention in the HUBB.
It would be good to hear your views of how things have moved along over the past 40 years or so; please see my latest post in here:-
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...ropean-80333-3

Ah! Now we have the agenda that started this thread.
No harm in that, but clearly it's a BMW thread of the disgruntled variety.

A 3D printer will solve that for you, in the very near future.

You think Dave? really?

Mezo.

Think I'll stick with my rebuilt Honda AT and just admire the pretty GS's from afar ...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Yes, I do, but that's just because of the road that this thread has taken: it's up to those who contribute and, so far, it consists in the main of photos that have been doing the rounds on the internet since year dot about BMWs.

No matter, someone has moved the thread into "which bike", so over to those who want to expand the thread into something other than BMW related.


Yes, but a lot of "things" added to bikes nowadays are there because of legislation somewhere in the world: e.g. BMW have to toe the line along with all the others who want to sell new bikes in the EU = ABS is all but compulsory (I can't remember exactly when it does become so, but the manufs know what is coming to them and they get ahead of the legislation).


Flying brick or plain "brick" that engine is enormously reliable as both a 750cc and in the 1000cc and bigger versions.

Yep, the inline 4 did a good job at the 2014 TT races, bringing in the German marque in first place since a hell of a long time (since 1939 ironically).

I've just got around to looking at the links that were the start of the post about fuel tanks; I didn't bother to read much in there - the posts in the links are 5-6 years old and they just dribble away into no resolution of the discussions; one of them is killed stone dead by starting a poll. :rofl:

Maybe these tanks, or a batch of these tanks, were prone to being effected by ethanol; many plastic tanks have had an issue with that fuel, irrespective of the tank manufacturer.

Would never buy a BMW simply due to the weight. I didn't know of all of this structural failure until now. That's just plain scary.

The thread has not been moved as far as im aware? its always been in "Which Bike"

Ive already stated i like the old school BMW`s so its not a case of bashing BMW.

The pictures are not from the year dot, just the last decade when BMW`s quality control was neglected in favour of the almighty dollar.

Out of interest Dave, what bike do you own?

Mezo.

While many BMW twins are on the heavy side, their latest in-line four sport bikes are some of the lightest in the liter class. Compare BMW's 1000SS to CBR1000, GSXR1000, R-1 or ZX-10. BMW is one of the lightest and one of the most powerful in that group. Do some research ... and, as mentioned above, check results from Isle of Man TT.

The R1200 GS's are a bit heavy, yes, but not so bad when compared to other Adventure bikes in the 1000 to 1200cc twins class: (Yamaha Tenere, Aprilia Caponord, Suzuki V-Strom 1000, Ducati Multistrada and perhaps one or two others)

BMW's 800 twins are over weight IMO, but so are Triumph's 800XC.

BMW's singles (F and G series) have always been 40 to 50 lbs. heavier than Japanese and Euro competition in 450 to 650cc class.

bier

Yes, basic motors were OK, apart from that irritating cloud of oil smoke emitted upon start up. Also, the early K100 were some of the first uses of ABS from BMW. Lots of problems. But... the very WORST part of those bikes was the poor handling. They were SO heavy there really was not much to be done. I rode them both on track and plenty on the road. :thumbdown:

I preferred the K75 as a road bike. Later generations were much better but none compare with the inline four based on the GSXR and the subsequent spin off models off the SS sports bike. :thumbup1:

yes, we get the IOM races here on TV. Great stuff. Good for BMW but very sad they pulled out of World Superbike a couple years back. They should have hung in and supported the series and kept at it. Oh well. :rain:

A key reason the Japanese became so dominant for SO Long was racing. Sure, they got laughed at early on at the IOM, Catalina Island Scrambles and Euro dominated Moto Cross.(early 60's)

But they just smiled, bowed and went back and made their bikes better, more reliable, spent more on R&D, hired better riders ... and won.

They've never stopped racing, winning and learning. Racing is the way forward not only for reliability but for R&D of new technology ... whether we need it or not ... that's another argument ! doh

BMW 800 tanks did in fact split. Quite common and something BMW addressed. LOTS of other serious issues with the 800 twins. Huge forever threads over on ADV Rider on several cases.

bier

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...ropean-80333-4


You probably know why they do "the smoke on start up" while parked on the side stand: in that position the engine head is lower than the rest of the engine, hence a smidgen of oil runs into that area.
Sure, BMW were very early into the development of ABS fitted to motorcycles and paid a price in reliability; now all EU bikes have to fit it.

In recent past there was some kind of announcement (press, or whatever) to the effect that BMW are changing the whole direction of their marketing, and advertising therefore.
Watch out for how that goes.

Split tanks: I never heard about it - living and working overseas for some years.
I have little doubt that it is a "dead issue" if only on account of the ethos that BMW apply to their warranty.

Yea, I know why ... and a lot of other "why's" due to two good riding buddies who both worked at the local BMW dealer for years. Learned everything about BMW from the inside ...

I'm not sure it's actual law :confused1: ... certainly not here in USA ... But kudos for BMW for risking capital and lawsuits to move things forward. Early ABS was not great and had issues ... for about a decade.

But modern ABS is invisible and FANTASTIC. My '07 Tiger has it and I love it. But I HATE the complexity and cost of parts:
IE: The ABS "accumulator" gizmo is $700 usd! :rofl:

This has already happened. In fact it's happened a couple times in the last 7 or 8 years. The latest, 3 years ago with the ouster of CEO Kunheim, a certified idiot. But it wasn't just Kunheim, everyone top to bottom was shuffled out. New crew brought in.

The new crew are MUCH better (IMHO), more forthright about problems, lots of truly new designs. The adverts will be what they will be ... like most all ads. Lots of BS hyperbole. But the bikes are better and BMW are making measurable steps forward and without Kunheim, a loose cannon who constantly embarrassed the whole company. (saying things like the competition in WSB are trivial and BMW would soon dominate, said the same
about Moto Cross and World Enduro doh)

Remember BMW 15 years ago repeatedly said they did not want to build "sports bike" like the Japanese, they claimed they appealed to a "different" sort of rider. :innocent: Also had "no interest" in racing, as their customer base had "no interest" in racing. :rofl: Oh my how things change!

Those days are long gone. My biggest worry regards BMW now is their penchant for heaping money into scooters that don't sell and lack of major factory racing efforts. :oops2: (IOM teams all privateer)

ABS compulsory next year
 

I couldn't quite remember where the legalities had got to but it is due in 2016 for the EU so it is being fitted now for new bikes - probably on the basis that the customers will become used to paying the extra costs and the factories can buy in the ABS systems in bulk.
Motorcycle ABS compulsory from 2016 - Motorcycle news : General news - Visordown

Anyway, in the absence of discussing anything but BMW, there is one thing that all new bike purchasers can look forward to when in the EU anyway - as per the thread title.
:thumbup1:

just to clarify this thread is not about bmw bikes, they're not that good to talk about them - it's about more and more cost cutting measures companies undergo, all brands not just bmw. Unfortunately bmw started saving money on frames and forks so defects are more spectacular. Some other brands started more gently. They introduced cheaper, smaller plastic fenders, removed rear racks, center stands, decreased size of the tanks, soft ignition keys etc etc. Not good but not as dangerous as our leader in cost cutting does.

I see your point. When you look at the offerings from the manufacturers, some are lighter for their "category." But, just because it's lightest in its category, still doesn't negate the fact that it's a 500+lb motorcycle. My Honda 250cc Tornado was just over 300lbs. I came back to the States and got on my 465lb Triumph. It's just too heavy. I'm prepping a bike now and hope that it stays close to 300lbs fully kitted. We shall see.

It's true. The BMW S1000RR is light and very, very fast. Not, in my hands anyway, reliable. 10 hours of repairs and recall work in 10 000 miles (under warranty) didn't fill me with confidence.

And yes, I know, a series of one may not be representative.

Would I recommend a BMW? No. I have owned new or nearly new bikes from all the Japanese manufacturers and KTM. I've only had one (minor) warranty claim before I bought the BM. And it wan't on a Japanese machine.

What Triumph do you have? Tiger 800XC? It's actually over 500 lbs. wet., even more once loaded up for travel.
What bike are you prepping now? Must be one of the new 250's ... which are ALL awesome.
My DR650 in stock form is 367 lbs. wet. Mine, loaded with full luggage, 5 gal. of fuel, about 460 lbs. (measured) No feather weight but does OK on the rough in Baja and even deep sand. But older (and weaker) I get, a nice 250 looks better and better. bier
I've not followed problems on the SS BMW's. Are you going to sell it? What's next up for you? I'm looking hard at the
Yamaha FJ-09 (Tracer) to replace my Tiger 1050. ?c?

Consumer Reports' first motorcycle reliability report finds Japanese brands ahead

That also potential buyers should know, some statistics in reliability.

Im saying nothing :innocent:

Mezo.

Good to see Consumer Reports doing this research.
Years ago the MIC (Motorcycle Industry Council) provided similar data ... but 10 or 12 years ago BMW refused to release dealer data on visits, warranty claims and failures. The reason?

For years the MIC data showed BMW in LAST place of major manufacturers.
Once BMW stopped providing data the BIG FOUR stopped as well. So MIC could no longer provide us with accurate info regards reliability, warranty claims and component failures.

MIC still provide recall information but the OEM's do this as well as it's PUBLIC information. As a side note, BMW were for years number one in recalls among ALL major OEM's.

But I'm betting BMW will be showing better in ALL this data, but still may not be at the level of the Japanese ... where reliability is JOB ONE and has been for 50 years.

Motorcycle Industry Council
http://mic.org/images/2012StatAnnual-ToC.jpg

keepcalm

durrrr
 

Shouldn't that read Build yourself a HPN with a BMW engine in it.
I'd love to see the reaction to this post if it was loaded onto the UKGSer worship vessel

Questions about how painting the exhaust black will cause non-reflected heat to melt the TT water bottle? Answers about how this will invalidate the warranty, your insurance and make your male parts turn green and fall off? Further questions about getting cream for that?

BMW Club would of course point out that the upper left rear light retaining screw is Phillips when historically an '89 frame would have used slot head. Also they used the wrong engine oil.

Andy

Are these Chinese BMWs ? Never seen bikes broken like this. I was planning a BMW but will have to opt for a KTM now my other choice.

I believe most of the BMW's shown in pics were big twins with a few 650's and 800's in the mix, yes? All the Boxers are made at Spandau, Berlin. Not sure about the P-Twin 800's, some rumors say they were Chinese but now back in
Berlin. The F650 and G650's are Chinese, as are G450 dual sport bikes.

The broken drive housings on the Boxers were, IMHO, the owner's fault. That bike was never meant to be jumped or bashed hard off road whilst carrying a load. But something Mezo isn't telling you is that many of those broken bikes were simply CRASH victims. Hit by cars, flipped or bashed an Armco barrier.

The F650 forks are Showa items, but perhaps very low spec Showa forks? (Honda own Showa). Problem is obvious ... those forks are too skinny for a 450 lb. bike. Also, it's possible Showa had a long period of bad quality assurance?

BMW got sued in Germany and paid out a few claims .... but lots of others got burned, never got paid. Funny thing is, even the new G650 use the same size forks ... and I believe they are still Showa forks.doh

Showa forks are usually good ... in fact .. world class gear. Never ever heard of such a problem with any other bike ever, using either KYB or Showa. But stuff happens ... Sometimes the engineers misjudge and make mistakes.
In this case I blame BMW. Should have been major recall for ALL F650's and
G650's period.

KayJay, would you buy the new KTM's made in India? The 390 Duke looks good ... would you trust it? :innocent:

Maybe they don't like the MIC being taken?
:rofl:

As you say, the big ones are put together in Spandau by the gastarbeiten.
Hence the two year warranty on new products?

Herein "Chinese" = Taiwanese, just like Cuba = the USA. i.e. someday.
Kymco - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now you mention it, neither have I.

BTW weak frame is not that BMW specific after all...

http://www.rideasia.net/motorcycle-f...52164160_n.jpg


http://gfx.motosport.com/motoblog/2013/brokenKTM.jpg

Kymco built the 450 dirt bikes, but Loncin in Mainland China built (still builds)
the F and G650 singles. Loncin and BMW have some sort of partnership ... may still have it? Dunno? So .... over all two Chinese connections for BMW who also build Cars there! None of this is news ... been going on a decade or more.

China: The BMW G650GS Production Country - MotorPartsCentre.Com
BMW Partners with Chongqing Loncin to Make Motorcycles
Loncin Motor and BMW hand in hand again—Loncin signed a long-term contract of new large displacement - loncin

For information, the 2007/2008 BMW G650x (Challenge/Country/Moto) with the FI twin spark 652cc Rotax motor (and finished the Dakar race with Simon Pavey on board) were built in Italy in the Aprilia factory. Hence in my 2013 RR (in sig below) I refer to it as a RBA (Rebadged Aprilia) to hide the shame of riding a Beemer :D

In more recent times lots of plastic G-bikes probably do come from the China. Never bothered research these as I think they look hideous, before even contemplating their apparent (or not) lack of robustness.

I just looked around new 1200GS and cound't believe how thin and delicate its frame tubes are! ?c? no wonder it breaks easily, tubes in my honda nc750x are twice as thick!


look GS frame

http://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/imag...-franzen_2.jpg

e.g. nc750x frame

http://img.motorkari.cz/upload/image..._1000x830_.jpg


or super tenere frame, it's massive!

http://www.raidxtreme.eu/webpics/12082007329a.jpg

Yep cars landed on top them causing them to flatten out. :smartass:

Mezo.

[QUOTE]Makes you wonder why they are so heavy then ?

[QUOTE=stevenatleven;496101]got to be engine.

It's not so much FRAMES of BMW twins that break ... it seems to be more the final drives. The pics posted by Mezo pretty much illustrate this.

I have heard of broken sub frames here and there with the big twins but seems most catastrophic failures are final drive related.

And that brings us to weight. BMW have spent MILLIONS of euros in the last 10 years to trim weight from the big GS. They've done well, making the latest R12's lighter and stronger than any GS before. But it's still a heavy bike, even though it rides like a 650!

The R1200GS is lighter weight than the Yamaha Tenere 1200, Guzzi Stelvio,
Aprilia Capo Nord. But the KTM 990/1190 twins are substantially lighter, make more power and usually don't break frames.

Why?

Most of the excess weight on BMW's comes from the Shaft drive system, the trans and the very heavy duty engine. Strong, heavy crank and cases. Luckily BMW finally fired Trans maker Getrag, and now use a lighter, Japanese made trans which is substantially lighter, shifts better and is quieter. Win Win.
But it still is NOT ENOUGH!

KTM somehow does all this with LESS weight, still maintain strength.

But even some BMW chain drive bikes are heavy IE: 800GS P-Twins.
IMO, the 800's are heavier than they should be. Compare engine weight
of the F800's with Yamaha FZ-09 triple (MT-09). The Yam makes more HP, less weight and is a smaller package!
And I'll bet it's reliability is better as well! The F800 series is an OLD Rotax design left over from the 80's.
The Yam triple is ALL new and borrows directly from MotoGP tech.

The SS1000 Sports bikes prove BMW CAN build a lighter bike. Will this mind set of LIGHT IS RIGHT transfer over to the GS line? Dunno? :mchappy:

I've had only three BMWs: A F650 Funduro, a R1150R and a K1200GT (the older one). Except a leaking gasket causing the clutch to slip on the GT, none of them caused me any problems at all. But I didn't jump them in the green lane either. I had to get a Yamaha WR250R to do that with some sort of structural confidence. I've had a bunch of Guzzis, though, and apart from the standard electrical circus on my older ones, I never saw any major issues with them. Otoh, the Tonti frames are unbreakable, so maybe that should be the back bone of my next long distance tool? Very easy to maintain, and even with a shaft drive it's lighter than the GS.

http://www.motostefano.de/umbauten/850T5_enduro.jpg

Wow! Is that your Guzzi in the pic?
Nice! That's a cool set up for a Guzzi! I always hoped Guzzi produce a light weight dual sport bike like that ... but they never did.

(I owned a '84 850 Le Mans lll ... wish I never sold it! A collectors item now!)

When you say "Tonti" ... is that Carlo Tonti? Did he design the Guzzi frame?

Alas, it's not my bike, but I'm thinking of converting an SP1000 I have into a bike similar to that one. Also, I agree: If they used the new V7 engine in a light weight set up, at least they could compete in the XT660Z Tenere class.
The Tonti frame is named after its originator Lino Tonti, who joined Moto Guzzi in the late '60s, replacing the father of the V-twin Giulio Cesare Carcano (who also designed the 500 cc V8 in the '50s).

Guzzi have a fantastic history. I was lucky to see the V-8 in person years ago.
Never heard it run though.

Guzzi was in the "hard enduro" mix back in the 80's a bit, many interesting Dakar racers and such.

The one Guzzi I looked at closely was the 1100 Quota. The closer I looked the more problems I saw. I thought of buying one but after studying it, realized all the mistakes Guzzi made. It was ALL WRONG. IE: The swingarm looked like it came off a 250cc bike! (Quota was 1100 monster) Of course it was too heavy, had crap suspension and brakes as well.

First saw the Quota at local dealer in early 90's .. then years later at a HU rally in Canada.
Never once ever saw a Quota out on the road anywhere!

Now it's just the Stelvio 1200, which is one of heaviest ADV bikes.
I rode it at the big USA National Guzzi rally in Oregon. Good street bike! Fun, but BIG, HEAVY and expensive.

Guzzi did some interesting dual sport bikes with the V35 and V65 years ago. I'd also like to see them get serious with a smaller, lighter ... and less expensive dual sport. Could make a good travel bike. bier

I had the Quota 1000 for many years and liked it. Built like a dumper truck. You could never break that frame in a million years. I upgraded the suspension and brakes which made wonders. But heavy and under-powered. Also had the Stelvio, which is sweet and well balanced, but truly a heavy road bike. I am getting more and more into smaller displaced bikes these days. I find them funnier to ride as I can take them places I'd never think of taking the Stelvio. And they tend to be a lot cheaper, of course :)

:thumbup1:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-3...%2520Dakar.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Y...V35%2520TT.jpg

Sweet! While it seems like we now are totally OT, and extending my deepest apologies for that, please allow me to add to those beauties:

http://www.philaphoto.com/imageLibra...Tc0511-010.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/f...zziDakar85.jpg

http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/Gal...Rally%2089.jpg

well, I don't find them particularly looking good, especially these parrot like colors...

and yes this is really off topic.

Perhaps a nice beige camper-van would suit you best?
:innocent:

Japanese bikes are heaving serious problems as well.
With cars you can get away for while but with bikes, even small thing can cause crash.

"may cause the engine to stall, increasing the risk of a vehicle crash"

What a load of bollocks, if you engine stalls & you fall off you shouldn’t have a bike licence in the first place.

What happens when you hit reserve? duh,,if your not quick enough to flick to reserve yep guess what,,,your engine stalls.

Never heard such crap in all my life.

Mezo.

I guess you have problem with imagination, if you're in the intersection or passing and the engine stall you may have close encounters with some other vehicle resulting in crash.

Any bike can stall if you run out of gas, as can any car, truck, bus, or aircraft.

Engine stalls, pull in the clutch & coast/roll to the side of the road, job done.

What`s your point?

Mezo.

exactly, and this can be dangerous depending on situation. Running out of gas you can predict, you have warning light for that. Unexpected stall during some maneuvers can be fatal, can be no time or place for pulling clutch and roll to the side of the road.

The manufacturers fear is that the untrained (especially American), inexperienced or mentally unprepared will sue. Only stupid people pour scolding hot coffee down their necks, yet we've all seen the warnings McDonalds lawyers feel are worth printing on every cup despite the resulting ridicule and loss of marketing style. We've all read the threads where some rider was making a stupid overtake and is looking for an excuse as to why they decided to "lay her down" be it unexpected cow **** on a country road, utterly unreasonable car drivers who insist on coming the other way on a two way road or better still the bike that won't run without petrol and didn't work out it was going a long way that day.


These notices are ammunition for the defence, not information for the normal rider.


Andy

What should someone do if they run out of fuel while being chased by a dog in Morocco?

Run out of fuel while being chased by a dog ?
 

The Mad Dog - Handgun Mount!

http://images.motorcycle-superstore....n_mount_--.jpg

be a hero, I thought you'd know this.

Bonnie Tyler is getting a lot more airplay recently

I suppose this would work if the bike had stalled (no fuel etc): You'd then have your right hand free to access said accessory. Not so good while un-stalled as you couldn't take your right hand off the throttle.

Or, I suppose, you could fit cruise control onto the bike allowing hands free riding.

http://www.ridermagazine.com/wp-cont...emeister_2.jpg

I was going to ask if the dog was a vegan, but have now thought better of this :innocent:

I imagine that moving the throttle to the left to allow use of the pistol like Indian marketed in the days of black and white film will somewhat invalidate ones warranty and get lawyers really ready for a fight?

I wonder what they'd put on a gun recall? "May fail to cause sudden death..."?

:rofl:

Andy

you could always bring a pillion:thumbup1:

The figure I have seen was 2% ... BMWs research is only 2% of GS owners ride their bike off road

Agghhh dont mention the vegan topic Andy. we dont want any more posts deleted do we :nono:

But .. of course the dog wasnt a vegan or it wouldnt have been chsing the meat from the leg of an overland motorcycle traveler... I google vegan dog and they do actually exist!

XD
Hilarious :)

Oh ..and in case you are wondering...the breed of the veagan dog is ........ a 'Collie' :clap:

BMW burned my house
 

Hi everyone.

First of all I would like to let you know that English is my other language so I will probably make some grammar or punctuation mistakes.


I would like add few words about the topic of quality of current German automotive industry. As you aware for many years, it was portrayed as a one of the most safe and reliable cars/motorcycles in the world. As it turns out, not only Mercedes has issues with quality and safety. It happened to me and as well as several thousand people around the globe which BMW motorcycles catching fire/combust unexpectedly. Here is the link to the other interesting information on this (including pictures of my fire as well)
https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...kk?usp=sharing

So...

Before beginning of 2015's motorcycle season. I started looking for some information about my motorbike BMW R1200ST which I really love it. I bought this motorbike new from local BMW garage. It was serviced regularly according to service manual. I was quite surprised when I found some information about the serious technical defects, that could cause injury or even a death of users.

These are some defects:

1. Faulty front ABS sensor resulting in self-locking front wheel while riding (No:1 Danger!)

2. Faulty/dodgy fixing of rear wheel (defective element of collar mounting wheel, resulting in losing/ be ringing of the hook whilst driving (Another nightmare!!!)

3. The malfunction of fuel pump sealing? Resulting in a loss of fuel and self ignition while is moving or even stationary.

Each of these defects has been widely documented on the Internet, because there were some fatal accidents. In the USA and Canada government based Road Safety institution dealt with these problems, which forced BMW to service/repair and pay compensations to the owners/victims of these motorcycles. It is worthy to say that BMW was forced to do futher steps as they didn't feel guiltily about following problems.

Here is the link to the NHTSA investigation of these cases:
https://www.nhtsa.gov/recalls?nhtsaId=13V617000

In the end, they failed to sweep the problem under the carpet. In order to sort this problems out, BMW Europe recalled the owners of motorbikes to apparently fix those problems. Poland was also included in this recall. At the beginning of June 2015. I sent an letter to my local BMW dealer ( BMW Auto Fus Ostrobramska Street, Warsaw) enquiring about recall/fires etc. Their response was positive inviting me to leave my motorbike in order to repair defects. In the last week of June 2015 the repair was carried out/ done so I was not bother/worried anymore.

Two weeks later on 13th of July 2015, after the ride I put motorbike in the garage. I left my house to go to Warsaw Old Town. After an hour I received an call from my neighbors telling me that my house in on fire.

There was a spontaneous combustion of my BMW R1200ST motorcycle. As a result of fire my garage and car burnt (sporty Mercedes). The house is adjacent to the garage so it started catching fire luckily stopping at gutters. I would like to say big thank you to all of my neighbors that they responded so quickly. Luckily the Fire Station is located only 2kms (1.2miles) from my property. The total loss is approximately 600.000zl (150k US dollars of 120k GBP)

Due to the extent of the damage on second day the prosecutor's office/court sent investigation team with firefighting experts to conduct the investigation. PROSECUTORS/INVESTIGATION TEAM CLEARLY STATED THAT CAUSE OF THE FIRE WAS BMW MOTOCYCLE.

I peacefully offered BMW reconciliation by paying me the settlement and compensation for the losses which I lost during fire.

BMW decided to sent two technicians from Germany to do own investigation. After 3 hours of inspection of wreckage they issued the statement which states that they do not feel guilty.

In my opinion the inspection was carried out in poor standards. BMW technician had no equipment with themselves (I video recorded inspection) I think they only came to see if I have any evidences on them and I will be able to use against them in court.

Due to the alleged fault of BMW motorbike, my insurer does not want to pay any compensation. So I stuck in middle of nowhere.

I can only do court proceedings.
Wish me luck.
Thanks for reading.
Kind regards.


PS: If you have any suggestions or help regarding this issue could you please send me an email bambusowydomek@gmail.com Thanks in advance.

Damn, so many years bmw endanger riders and do nothing to make it right it's just a shame. Time people realize what are they risking buying beamers, yet somehow adventure market is still dominated by GS models doh

I think BMW's bright adventure Star has faded some in the last 5 years. KTM is now THE major player in the Adventure market ... and getting stronger. BMW are certainly still BIG ... and many thousands of riders still ride GS's all over the world. But their dominance is not quite what it once was.

All that said, BMW have a LONG history of technical problems going back to at least the 1980's, which is where my experience with BMW started. I also was good friends with both mechanics and BMW dealership owners.

Their stories are incredible. Actually, BMW have improved in their response to warranty claims and are now approving more pay outs than in years past. Also, for YEARS BMW would routinely DENY faults with their bikes. NOW ... they sometimes do admit to problems and take responsibility and actually FIX the problems ... sometimes ... no always. Overall, a much better bike than previous.

The case above is a tough one ... and will take a good lawyer and a favorable judge to decide the whole thing in court. In the end I hope the guy can WIN and get the payout he deserves.

But of course if it gets anywhere near going to court ... BMW will quickly settle the matter with a Cash Payment. It's just how this business works.

But if too many cases come before our NHTSA, it may send up red flags which could set off investigations and more lawsuits. But BMW will be well defended, having all the money in the world (mostly (as always) from the Car division)

In decades past BMW motorcycle division was 100% supported by the Car division and the MC division ran at a loss for DECADES. It wasn't until around 2000 that the Motorcycle division finally, clearly paid it's own way with no help from the Car division. This due to big surge in R1150GS and R1200GS sales from about 2000 onward.

Long Way Round really gave BMW a huge boost, especially in UK sales.

Just so as not to pick on BMW alone, many (all?) other companies have had these sort of disastrous law suits happen. NONE are perfect and ALL have screwed customers at one time or another.

But, just in my experience, I guess-ti-mate that BMW tend to have MORE problems and more re-calls with faulty equipment and systems than other OEM's.

Some would argue the reason is because BMW are pushing forward with new, high tech systems first. They were the first to widely offer ABS brakes across their whole range of bikes. Now, they offer ESA and new, sophisticated ABS systems. Pioneers.

Risks taken can bring disasters. The Japanese are far more risk averse and tend to follow at a safe distance ... and also do FAR more testing of new, high tech systems before putting it out to the public. And as a result, have fewer warranty claims, fewer law suits, happier customers ... and make MORE MONEY. :smartass:

that's true, but as far I could research none of other companies have been involved in so many incidents where riders were injured or killed because of faulty design or malfunction of their motorcycle. In fact I couldn't find any other motorcycle brand then bmw...

p.s.
maybe people finally woke up:
http://www.bmwmoa.org/news/292002/BM...own-in-USA.htm

I suspect the fundamental problem is the use of a shaft driver boxer engine. This is great for on-road touring and has been the company's trademark since the 1930s. But it's inherently heavy, in the drivetrain and in the impossibility of building a more compact engine. So they look for weight savings elsewhere, and that's where the problems start.

one of the weight saving ideas is single side swing arm - very stupid idea, against laws of physics. No wonder so many cases of broken literally in half GS bikes.

Actually the SSSA was shown by Honda (who hold the patents) in racing during the 80s to be slightly heavier than the twin sided version due to its need for increased torsional stiffness. The advantages are functional, ease of wheel changing in particular. Using it as a shaft drive housing also has an aesthetic value. A further disadvantages is that in order to make the complex shapes it needs to be cast, and cast aluminium isn't as strong as extruded section.

you're right, but while in racing it makes some sense then for adventure bikes not really.
Such swing arm should be strong enough but bmw disagrees obviously.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-S...45_ohYkh-L.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...keshaft-BB.jpg