I'd ride what has parts available locally where ever you're going: Things like brake parts, shift lever, oil & air filters, sprockets, shocks. Having those parts available locally is important for my choice. In any case, I do agree that a 250cc moto is a great bike for travel & exploration. If you pack light, there is no hesitancy to get off the main highways and ride where the heavily loaded travelers generally don't go.

OK So today I took the CRF for a test ride, since it's been the fist day that it hasn't been storm conditions for the last week and a half.

Thoughts: Now I can't tell if it's because i'm coming from an 800 GS Twin or not, but the CRF felt needlessly underpowered. It felt like it developed less power than a 15 year old carbed XR250L. Last year I owned a 2007 XR125L and that felt comparable to the CRF today. Surely that can't be right?

Power aside it did feel fine however. Ususal Honda build characteristics and I felt very at home on it. My first ever bike was a Honda and I have had many since then.

Tomorrow I will go test the KLX, as in the FI Euro version, so I will see how that compares.

There is no option to test the WR. It would be a leap of faith purcahse, or a short flight to another country for a test ride. Eek.

well, because it is and gearing is screwed too.

You could plan your next holiday around a wrr test ride.

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Compared to your 800 a Crf will feel gutless if course. You will have to use throttle and shift pedal much more often to keep up speed. And the speed of a 800 you will never keep up of course.

I havent owned a Crf but have been riding it as a rental for about 10 k kms and on highways I found a sweet spot around 95 km/h. You could of course push it harder but then the engine seemed to feel a bit stressed. Anyhow - as someone mentioned earlier in the thread - the Crf has more tourqe lower down than comparable bikes. Its actually a downtuned CBR250 engine. I found the power delivered in very in useful rpm range. I havent been riding the WR so cannot comment upon that. But have had a week on a KLX250. But it was the carburated model and the Crf beats that in all ways.

Some Crf owners do go down one tooth on the front sprocket - I guess good for offroading and around town riding but personally I wouldnt do that on a bike for overlanding. Have a go on a WR if possible and share your experiences....

Hey folks, another step forward.

So yesterday I test rode the KLX250, purely because I had nothing else to do. I took it out for about 40 minutes around town. I didn't get a chance to take off road, but I did find a very beat up farm access road so I flew up and down that a few times.

Keep in mind this is the FI Euro version of the KLX and not the carb'd American version.

I felt that it had a bit more power than the Honda certainly, but since I got it home I looked over the stats and they are only within 1-2HP or so. Strange to think how much that actually shows at the wrist.

The problem though is that of the 3 the KLX is perhaps the least likely candidate to replace the GS as a super-lightweigh RTW steed. Service intervals are much shorter, very few aftermarket parts here in the UK and the closest place I could get an IMS tank sent from would be USA.

*siiiiggghh*

It really is frustrating living in the UK. No dual sport market makes life hard when searching for a lightweight tour option.

I went into a Yamaha dealership yesterday and discussed the WR250R, he said he was shocked the 250 even existed because for only £ 800 more you could have got a XT660! He really didn't understand the concept of lightweight adventure.

Typical European thinking.

Well I give myself perhaps 2 more weeks of looking into my options and expenses regarding the WR. So far it's looking like a £12,000 bill to get a hold of USED bikes, never mind new. I could have 2 Used CRF's for £6,000.

I really need to get that figure well under £10k to make the Yamahas a feasible option.

oh please...do not sin, there are thousand of places more frustrating to live then UK :nono:

Get a KTM 690 enduro R, almost same weight as crf250l and you'll get guts to travel efficiently. 250cc is not meant for that.

Ehm, the kato is 310 pounds dry. The WRR is 295 wet. Bit of a difference.

No kidding. The main reason there is no 100kg 500cc long service interval offroad weapon. No other reason as a large part of the global market has nowhere to ride them.

I'll sell you mine with all the bells and whistles (overland ready) for a good price if you can wait until next year.

WRR is simply not worthy the money they're asking, and your dealer is right - you're better off buying xt660z which costs almost the same. (if you were to buy WRR)

BTW you can wait for new crf450 Rally coming soon from honda :)

completely different animal and way lower spec. And with that rational there is no point getting anything smaller than a 650.

The honda weighs 330 pound. Not even close to the mark.

Well, I dunno if my dealer was right to recommend me a 200kg lump when I asked about a 130kg trail bike.

Especially as I still have the dust in my hair from Russia on a 200kg machine, and he was sat on his arse in a computer chair.

The KTM 690 is certainly an option, but it's not just me on this expedition, If I were going alone I would be more seriously considering the KTM. My sidekick is Kyla; a a 130lb 21 year old female, who although just manhadled a F8GS around Eastern Europe, I think would struggle when the roads get reeeaally bad. I worry the extra 20kg on top of the 900+mm seat heights would cause problems.

Now a Honda CRF450 would be an amaaaaazing prospect. But I worry it will be just like the Yamaha WR450Rally, or the KTM450 Rally or any of the other 400+ Rally bikes that already exist for the public.


All I want is a WR450R or CRF450L...

I think I have to agree with you. Every extra lb in the machine is a lb you will wish you never had when you leave. That goes for kit, bike and belly fat!

Weight is actually the main reason I am considering 250's. I am not convinced by the power or it's merits on tarmac at all, although I am sure it's possible. But I just can't ignore 130kg wet weight. That's the holy grail of overland travel in the developing world.

Hmmm Nect year?... Can you bring it over next week?

You might have a long weight for either of those bikes unfortunately - Id be buying one too, as long as the motor is not too highly strung!


What is the price of the CCM 450 in the UK? I know they are expensive here in Canada ($12,000 + CAD)


At least with the WR250 you can easily put the Athena 290 kit in and give it a bit more pep :)

Sorry mate, but I'll drive it up your driveway after I ripsnort along the dirt tracks of Africa on it first. After that I'm done with adv riding and I'll be possibly getting a 100kg 500cc snorter and put up with the once a year piston change. Maybe once every 2 years.