1 VJ
 

Hi,

I have just been informed that the 5th gear in the Tenere gearbox always disintergrates after about 15 000 miles. the pieces then proceed to rip up the engine.

Is this true or is it scare mongering?

Who told you that?

I have also been told this by a certain person (who shall remain nameless for the time being). Someone else has told me that by 30-40K miles the 2nd and 5th will be chipped, possibly leaving small pieces of hardened cog floating round in the oil (until the filter at least).

The problem is that the chips mangle the rotors in the oil pump. Anyone who doesn't think this is true, let me know - I'm not that technical...

It would seem that there is an ELEMENT of truth in this rumour, but I should think that frequent oil changes would eliminate the chance of severe engine damage.

PS - I think it's an expensive job to fix, so beware of mechanics trying to make a quick (BIG) buck out of you.

yes, this is a well known problem.
but the milage when this occurs depends very much on how you ride the bike.
i know a XT600 which has done more than 120000 kms and her engine insides have never seen european daylight...
avoid very low and very high revs.
5th gear shouldn't be used below 4000...4500 rpm. avoid hard accelerating from low revs.
always try to keep revs between 4500 and 5500.
use secondary ratio 14/40 (or 14/45 for 3AJ and later models).

klaus

The Tenere (3AJ) I bought had just had a complete engine rebuild after 5th gear went pop and showered the inside of the motor with steel chips (at 50000Km) so yes it can happen and if it does it's expensive.

But - I didn't realize that "avoid low revs in 5th gear " actually means "don't use 5th below 4000rpm" - bugger!

Thank you for excellent and informative replies. The problem seems to be made worse, since my XT feels happiest (riding slowly round London at the moment) at 3-4K rpm. I will try to rev it a little more in the future!

Is there any way of knowing by listening, or through any inspections procedures the state of the gears? It seems an expensive thing to do, to have to remove the engine "just in case" the gears are bad...

Are there aftermarket parts (gears) available to stop the probem happening again when the motor is rebuilt?

Thank You

Hi

I just opened a 3AJ engine this weekend. It had done 25.000 km when I bought it two years ago. I replaced after riding 3000 km with a second hand engine because the 5th gear was 'screaming'. I only noticed it when riding next to a crashbarrier with the sound refelecting. I actually couldnt believe this was really caused by a bad gear but becuase of stories I heard (on this BB)I decided to take no risk and stopped riding with that engine.
Now I'm very happy I did! The engine turns out to be almost new expect for the fifth gear sprockets.... they where pitted really bad, one tooth already had a small piece missing completely.
Riding on with it probably would have ruined the engine, but now it's a fairly easy and relatively cheap operation.
Must take a special kind of rider to ruin a engine in 25.000 km and then sell it (to me) :-)

So ride next to crasbarrier with about 90 km/hour and listen. If you hear something that sounds like German divebomber in the second World War (even in the distance), your in trouble.
To be sure: change gear and it should stop.

Peter

thanks for all the replies,

i get a whurring sound but only at low speeds in 2nd gear and only occasionally. so i don't know if it comes from the gearbox. has anyone else had this?

also does anyone know how to improve the oil cooling system on the 1VJ as i've heard it is prone to overheating.

we leave on our africa trip in 3 weeks time, the last minute panic is in!! so your help is much appreciated.

Whirring sounds, esp. at lower speeds may well be your tyres. Does the sound change when you alter the pressures? How about riding off-road - same sound?

Personally, I'm quite relieved since my bike is *not* sounding like a dive-bomber just yet. The selector drum is worn though, causing it to jump out of gear under load.

Obviously, everything will be replaced when I do the rebuild...

maybe what you hear comes from the chain?
of course you can cruise at 3..4k rpm but to accelerate you should shift down or do it really carefully.
regarding cooling please look in older postings. i think i have already described what to do. if you can't find, please contact me.

klaus

Its really difficult with engine noises. My 1VJ sometimes seems to make a saml sucking noise, but I don't thinnk its the gearbox.

I'm a novice with bikes but I think it is easy to get paranoid about all the engine noises. Unless you (well, WE actually) can hear another 1Vj known to be in good order how can we really know if the noises we hear are "correct" noises or "bad noises" ?

A 1vj isn;t really like a car where you're islotaed from the engine so you'll hear more noises anyway I guess.

Not really going anywhere with this email...

Simon

Klaus - a quick question:

When lubing my chain the other week I leaned the bike by the handlebar, with the front brake help on with a strap. I have seen this done many times, when there is no sidestand.

My question is how easy is it to disable the sidestand switch? I hear problems when it gets wet or worn, causing engine cut-outs... I would like to bypass mine, but I don't know whether to wire it "open" or "closed" and how best to do it?

Have you done this modification?

Vielen Dank!

it's simple: just connect the blue/white and the blue/yellow cable at the connector. doing this, a lift-up sidestand is simulated.
but you should do so only for testing purpose. i do not recommend to ride continuously like this. you risk your life, riding unaware of a sidestand down can cause serious accidents!
so, as long as the switch functions, leave it as it is. if you get trouble with the ignition you know where to look first. if necessary, buy a new one.

regards
klaus

Thank you. Just what I needed to know.

Hello all .
Regarding the xt6 gbox problem.
I believe the 5th (and 4th and 3rd) gear problem starts at about 15000 miles.
I have never found a perfect 5th pair in any pre 4PT(96 600e) that has done more than 20000 miles.
The second 3AJ model with the long oil cooler and the 3TB xt600e is slightly better than the early 3AJ and the 1VJ but not much.
This problem can cause damage to the engine very early on or with enough oil and filter changes can run untill 40 or 50K untill you eventually lose whole teeth.
Its a big gamble.
Come and see my collection of split crankcases and bent shafts if you doubt the end result!!!
There is an uprated gear kit available (but only as part of a full rebuild) that has so far proven to be as reliable as the 4PT setup.
The early short o/p shaft kick only gearboxes can also benefit from upgrades.
Why did yamaha wait so long to use the 4PT setup - it was available as far back as the first 660 in 1991?
Shame it doesnt fit earlier models.

Uh Oh!

This doesnt sound great!

I have just finished a top end rebuild on a 1vj prior to a sahara trip this xmas. The bike has 45000 km on it and makes no whirring or whining sounds in top gear(or any other). What is a realistic expectation of this bike experiencing problems in the next 5000 miles? ( as a percentage, obviously I know as well as you that there is no real answer to this until something happens) Is it really necessary to complete a bottom end job prior to departure?

Thoughts please?

Dave

Thanks for the more specific info. I have a 1989/90 3AJ, which is going to Maroc / Algeria / Tunisia / Libya / Egypt / Jordan / Syria / eastern Europe in June next year.

Since 2nd and 3rd were jumping, I was banking on new selector drum and forks, plus new sprockets. The bike doesn't make any wierd noises in any gear, but it has covered 35K miles. At the moment I am changing oil every 1000 miles and nursing the gearbox.

I think I should bank on a full rebuild with a top end decoke and new valve seat, rings, etc., and a full 'box/clutch rebuild. Currently I am saving up for this. (!!) It seems that lots of mechanics will quote on a job like this without even having done one before.

DL - I will give you a ring to try and arrange a visit soon. Would you be able to have a look / listen / ride? I am in London...

Personally I opened the cases of 2 2KF and one 34L each of them with *at least* 40.000 kms (used bikes ..don't count on tachos ! one of the 2KF was at last rebore with tacho showing "37.000" kms ....) and none showed pitted or damaged gears ...true is that I always used a lower ratio respect the original (1 teeth less on pinion or 2 teeths more on sprocket) even on my TT heavily used for enduro gears were OK ...may the point is to put the stress on the chain ? (easily serviceable/changeable)

Hi David Lomax.
Most 1VJs would have had a rebuild by now, so it is always difficult to tell how many miles a set of gears have actually done.
I forgot to mention yesterday that it is possible to visually inspect most of the gear wheels with only

the top end and piston removed.
As you look into the case from the front 5th is the pair second in from the RHS. (As you look at the gears from L to R they are in this order 1-4-3-5-2)
The droning noise is not always obvious in the early stages unless you are familiar with it, so a visual inspection is really the only sure-fire way to be certain.
I have heard (but never seen) reports of engines with quite high mileages having perfect gears, but unless you can be certain that an engine has never been apart and is not on a replacement set, I think it would be unwise to consider these exceptions as the rule.
If the gears were good on the 1VJ then why have Yamaha modified it at least three times since???
If actually splitting the cases then you should also check the guide grooves on the selector drum, they can wear badly on the ramps and peaks causing poor engagement of the gear dogs. The forks and dogs start to wear and the machine jumps out of gear.

David L.

Hi POB/London
No problem, come down and i will have a ride and listen.
You mention being surprised that mechanics will quote on this work without previous experience. From their angle this is fair enough as the XT6 is a fairly simple engine, but, the problem is it suffers from a multitude of faults that can never be rectified with a straightforward by-the-book rebuild using std off the shelf parts.
A good engine builder will certainly do a good job of building the engine but without the right mods will it stand up to the demands of a long overland trip where regular maintainance is maybe, for whatever reason, not at the top of your list of priorities?
Long distance touring is always a bit of a gamble unless you can afford a fully equipped support truck!!!
Maybe see you soon.

David L.

David Lambeth

Many thanks for taking the time to reply in so much detail.

It seems as if you're the guy I should have seen to get the bike sorted!!

May well meet you soon!!

Dave Lomax

Agreed. Thanks very much.

I don't think my trip is *that* extreme, but I see what you're saying. At the moment my problem is that I can't really afford major work, yet I DEFINITELY can't afford to fix it if it goes pop. A tough one.

I have also acquired a pair of 3AJ wheels (rear rim cracked, but both hubs AOK) and a shock / swingarm assembly. Perhaps I'll lash them to the bike when I come to see you...

Once again, thanks very much.

PS > I crashed my 3AJ the other day at about 25mph, and she slid down the road, sparking. I was wearing my Rukka / Tuareg gear so I was fine, and the damage to the bike? 1 filed down brushguard and a cracked indicator lens.

These are tough bikes! (apart from 5th...)_

Sorry to bring this old chestnut up *again*, but does the following text (from the very good "Tenere History" page) mean that 5th gear in my 3AJ may be good for some time yet? Were the mods by Yamaha sufficient? Or should I still try and get at least a gearbox rebuild before my trip?

"Also the cooling fin surface area was increased by one third. In addition, the lubrication circuit was optimised and fifth gear was strengthened. Thus the Ténéré again became a reliable long-distance touring companion."

What do you think?

I had similar problems with my '86 SRX6 which has the same (or very similar) engine as the XT/TT. When I bought the bike it never seemed happy in 5th on a motorway, however as I'd never had a single before I put it down to the engine. I did 10k kms with noticable vibration in 5th, and only then did the remaining teeth finally give way.

Interestingly, I could only find three of the four missing teeth in the crankcase. Also, one of the tooth 'stubs' on the gear looked very different to the others. I can only conclude that the not-so-mysterious vibration I had expereinced in 5th was due to a missing tooth. There was no damage to the rest of the engine as a result of the initial tooth disappearing (probably fished out by the previous owner) or the subsequent teeth.

The good news is that, in one case anyway, the engine can survive losing a few teeth. Maybe I got lucky?

B

Hi

Seems like you were very lucky. My 3AJ was only missing small pieces from its 5th gear (no whole teeth) but to my surprise it completely ruined the oilpump. And the oilpump is much more expensive than the new fifth gear :-(
I just now heared that the XTZ660 oilpump also fits on the XT600 and has much more power. This should help to keep the 5th gear in one piece.

Peter

So if I were to fit a new XTZ660 oilpump to my 3AJ it could prevent the problem? Or stop it from getting worse? Anything to help would be great!

PS > discovered today that my sponsors are paying for a custom rear shock rebuild (based on rear axle load weight??). Yay!

Hi again
The 660 oil pump that everyone is talking about is a 3AJ unit.
The only way to avoid the gear problem is to uprate the gears or fit a 96 onwards XT motor.
(no the 96 gears dont fit straight into any of the earlier engines)
I have sold many many of the uprated kits and to date have never had any reports of problems - when I do I will let you all know so we all have an idea of how long the kits can be expected to last.
David Lambeth.

[This message has been edited by david lambeth (edited 15 December 2002).]

Dave,

I have a 34L Tenere. It has an genuine 50000km on it(got it from the original owner!). Does the above discussion about 5th gear apply to this model as well and if so is the remedy the same?

Thanks,

Brian

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I just opened my 3aj. It has 22000km on the clock. 5th gear on the primary shaft is badly pitted, also the 3rd gear engaging dog is badly damaged with a chunk missing.

These gear boxes are very easy to open up, so its no problem to have a look if you suspect problems.

i ride the xtz 660 4my, does this bike have the upgraded gear boxes, i am planning a rtw trip on this bike and hope its gear box can survive.

Hi,
dont worry, your XTZ 660 has endurable gearbox, much better than mentioned old Teneres. My gearbox is perfect after more than 100.000 km !
AnteK

Are any of the components of the 660 interchangeable with the 1VJ, or do I have to stick with the ordinary 1VJ parts when I rebuild the engine?

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Rikard the Swede