1984 xt600 kicks back--HELP!!!
 

Hi,
I bought an 84 xt 600 not running.
Cleaned out the carbs and installed new compression release cable.
Also the kick start stop was broken. replaced those and put and new gear on the start shaft. bushing was loose.

Now it starts.
But it kick back so badly it felt like it broke my ankle.

What did I do wrong?

Thank you very much in advance for any help.
Josh

Big secret to start xt
 

Spyder,

Do not use any throttle when starting, choke only, do not use throttle.

Did I mention-DO NOT USE THROTTLE,
my method, apply choke, grab throttle , twist forward(NO throttle) grab front brake, KICK.

Cheers from Oz.

Nothing! It is all part of the character of a kicker :thumbup1:

Mind you, it is probably worth checking the timing.

Also it is good character building stuff to own a bike with a kick start!!

There's a technique to kick starting big singles. First, as Chucky said, no throttle. Do the kicking bit with the throttle shut.

For the next bit I'm assuming you've got the timing right and that it's not stuck / defaulted to full advance. The timing for starting should be around 5-10 degrees BTDC. If it isn't, for whatever reason, it will kick back. It's unusual for modern(ish) Jap stuff to have a timing problem but for the sake of your leg it's worth checking.

Next you need to get the piston in the right place for starting - slowly push the kickstarter down until you can feel it come up on the compression stroke. Now pull in the compression release and ease the piston just past the top of its stroke (you can feel it move). Release everything, let the kickstart come back to the top and come down on it with your whole weight. You need to get the piston moving as quickly as you can - a wimpy kick won't work. Keep the throttle shut!

The idea behind getting the piston just past TDC before kicking is that it then has two complete revolutions to get some speed / momentum going before the firing stroke (and at the same time the kickstart reaches the bottom of its stroke and disengages from the engine, so saving your leg). Half strength kicking or starting with the piston in the wrong place are the main causes of kickback.

If it doesn't start within 2-3 kicks you've probably flooded it. Switch off ignition, switch off fuel and choke, open throttle fully with compression release pulled in and kick the engine over 3-4 times to remove excess fuel. Then switch everything back on and start again.

I have now been through pretty much the whole bike's electrical system.

we removed the stator and pickup coil. tested pickup coil with ohm meter and it was out of spec by 100 ohms. we froze it and heated it. now there it has an open loop in it.

I am trying to find a replacement now.

Could this be the reason it kicks back? Is it getting a signal to fire to early?

It is kicking back enough to throw a 250lb person over the bike.

thank you again for any input.
Josh

sounds familiar.
 

I had my 83 xt550 do the same thing to me that resulted in a fractured tib, turned out to be the pickup coil as you have already figured out. I found a replacement stator on ebay for around a 100 bucks but that was kind of lucky i think.

unfortunately the pickup is just part of the stator and you usually have to replace the whole thing. I looked into buying an aftermarket pickup coil and attempting to rewire and squeeze it in there but since nothing I could find looked remotely close to the right size i just opted for the ebay option.

or if you want to go new be prepared to shell out.
1984 XT600L Yamaha Motorcycle GENERATOR Diagram and Parts

potentially you could find someone in your area that does rewinds but also expensive and the pickup is quite 'packaged' making it more difficult.

maybe this one will do.http://www.ebay.com/itm/XT600-84-89-STATOR-COIL-MAGNETO-GENERATOR-ALTERNATOR-86-/130531711803?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp= mtr&hash=item1e644bdb3b


I would email the seller and ask for the ohm reading across the coils to confirm they are within spec.


I just swapped mine over and absolutely no kickbacks since

also, starting procedure mentioned above makes everything safer too.

good luck

Hi my name is Eddie. I have same problem with same bike. 1984 Yamaha xt600. I bought it used. It did start when I bought it but I didn't have it long before the nasty and severe kick back occurred with me too. I had the carbs cleaned and it didn't matter. I'm thinking after reading all the posts it might be a stator coil? Is a 1983 model the same?
Could it also be a decompression cable or timing? I only paid 600.00 for the bike and don't want to waste money on guessing. What is the most common reason stator? If so is there a easy way to test it to know if the one that's in the bike now is bad?
Thanks everyone in advance for possible help with my near foot breaking problem.
Sincerely Eddie

On the decompression cable there is a adjuster down the cable near the engine with the engine at top dead centre try pulling on the cable to see how much play you have coming from the engine side.
The amount of play should only be a millimetre, if you have to much play then you will find when you kick down it will jam on the way down on occasions as the decompression is not happening at the right time.
I can start my xt kicking it down using my hand.
The starting point of the kick is the last quarter of the kick the first three quarters is to get momentum.

On the xt 500 they had a decompression lever on the handle bar you pulled in to get the stroke to top dead centre, on the xt600 they didn't

The method I use relies on the automatic decompression properly adjusted and working.

Slowly kick until you hear a loud (rather loud) click, stop, allow kicker to return to top then with throttle closed kick very hard and fast. Use choke if engine is cold. Once you hear it fire add a little throttle to keep it running. :funmeteryes:

The click you hear is the decompression lever, you can see it move when it clicks.

Hi guys Eddie here again. Thanks so much for your time and kindness in replying to my requests for help. I had a 1984 XL600R that had tough to kick lever compression but it never ever came back to almost literally break my foot in the instep. I don't remember hearing a "click" when I try finding top dead center with the kick start lever. Maybe it's a combination of the auto decompression cable and a defaulted stator?
I have to drop the bike off to a private all around mechanic who is the son of a friend. I just want to know what possible things could be causing this so I can tell him what you guys suggested and what parts to buy from ebay.
Lastly does anyone know if a stator assembly from a 1983 xt600 will work on the 84 model?
I'm going to try all the things you guys are suggesting. One post said they replaced the stator assembly and it corrected the problem. Is there a way to check if it's in spec as far as ohm. I'm a little confused how it all works. Any to make matters worse the local yamaha dealers won't even take it in as a repair job because it's so old they say they don't want to get involved. Thanks everyone for much needed advice. Let me know all the steps I should cover. I'll check the decompression cable too.
Eddie

In the dealership unless it's got a plug so they can plug a diagnostics unit in they are not sure how to diagnose a problem,
The machanics are still in there nappies, I've got bikes older than them

Hi Eddie,

XT 600s don't kick back. Spark timing must be wrong. We had that here after a stator rebuild.
There are 2 pick-ups for timing, one for slow and one for fast. 3 wires come from pick-up: green is common, white with green and white with red go to CDI.
Can't find the note i made to self which is which. Quite possible to get those mixed up, try swopping the 2 white with green/red trace.

Best.
p

Throttle needs to be kept shut while starting
Even if the throttle is fully closed the throttle stop screw on the carb may be screwed in a bit to much, this has the same effect as opening the throttle.
I would try unscrewing the throttle stop.

Thanks fellas for the help!!! BTW where is the throttle stop screw located? And I'll check the wires too for the stator pick up. Thank you guys so very much

Starting procedure is the main issue with kick backs on these along with giving it some throttle (or idle turned too high). I've seen some guys subconsciously twisting the throttle every kick just out of habit from a 2 cycle. I had an XL600 also and their kicker decomp is a little different up top and doesn't make the distinct "click" like the XT does , which is really nice . The lever up on the head where the cable is attached to should have about 1mm to 1.5mm freeplay with the kicker up. Grab the lever with a pliers and twist it forward , it should move fairly easy for that freeplay then go hard, adjust the cable to get the correct play.

One of my XT's almost broke my ankle when I first got it also and I had gotten it cheap because it did it to the previous owner and broke the stops inside ,and it appeared the case was cracked around that bearing,(turned out it was casting marks once I lightly sanded it ). Once I cleaned the carb good and got the idle set lower beside the starting routine, it hasn't backfired since. I also now try to never wear tennis shoes when kicking , only good MX boots , just in case.

Left side on the carb, where the throttelcables mount on a plate ob the carb.


http://www.tenere.dk/forumnew/upload...ottle_stop.jpg

Xt600 compression kick back follow up
 

Hey last question guys, I know this might be a dumb question but can a low charged or worn out battery not producing enough spark be a possible reason for compression kick back or no?
I have already purchasedone a used stator assembly and a used decompression cable. I also ordered a new battery . I have to have a motorcycle mechanic put the items on.
I haven't yet checked the play in the decompression cable yet but will tomorrow. Weather here in New Jersey is cold so I have to wait for an occasional warmer day.
Tomorrow I'll try bump starting it to see if she will run.
Please let me know if a low battery could cause the kick back problem. Thanks guys. I'll let you know if I get her going
Eddie Kinney

Thanks!!
 

Thanks Jens for the picture of throttle stop. I'll check that too!!

I've watched utube videos of teenage 110 lbs girls kick starting these old mid 80's XT600 with tennis sneakers!!! I'm a heavy old 51 year old out of shape Dad straining and suffering even while wearing heavy duty steel toe linemen boots!! I know some things wrong. I'll try ALL the suggestions everyone gave me. The Yamaha shop won't even look at it

I think your problem is problem with the decompression, its suppose to be easy to kick it when it works. Had kickstarter for 10years and never any problems, turned kicker slowly and felt the piston on the high and kicked. For light people it can be better to have the bike on the sidestand when kicking and stand on the foot rest. When you first have moved to electric start you never go back ;)

The bike will start with no battery fitted, you shouldn't get any kick back from that. I think some people are posting info that's not relevant to your real problem,
The bike could have bad history with out us knowing its, so difficult to sort your problems out, work on your main problem first that doesn't cost much.
Try to get the bike running with the kick start operating correctly, its likely that your decompression cable is fine may need a bit of grease,
As I explained in a earlier post its not rocket science to adjust the cable, start there, you will know when it's adjusted correctly as the kick start will be a lot smoother action.
Good look

The 1mm slack in the decompression cable is critical. If you have more slack the decompression amount will be less and kick much harder. If adjusted correctly it should kick fairly easily. Still a swift kick is the best way to start. I have found the decompression cables to break fairly often and keep spares on hand. The bike is much too hard to kick without decompression and you chance breaking the side case where the kick shaft goes through. A used cable will NOT last very long.:oops2:

Weak battery possible cause compression kick back?
 

I know this might be a stupid question but can a weak or worn low charged battery cause any type of severe compression kick back? I forgot to mention this before.

Can you guys tell me if a worn weak battery can cause compression kick back?

NO, They get the juice for the ignition off the stator, not the battery. A working stator will send enough to have the ignition working correctly.

If you read post 22 you will see I have already answered that question,

Update XT600 compression kick back
 

Today I rolled out that mule type kicking XT600 from the shed. I asked a neighbor to help me push it down the road for an old fashion "bump start". I wasn't about to try kicking it again after two near foot breaking ordeals with kick backs. My neighbor, a 6 foot 2 inch plumber by trade showed up wearing jeans and a over worn pair of work boots. The kind where the soles were almost worn thru. I checked the gas in the tank it seemed almost empty. I filled her half way and we pushed it out towards the roadway to push start. He said why not we try kick starting first? I warned him of its nasty bite. I told him if he wanted to try, no throttle. I watched closely as I grintend my teeth in anticipation of the vicious kick back. I watched him closely find TDC with the kicker in text book fashion. He started to kick, but not super strong. He gave it several half strength kicks. I kept cringing waiting for that ankle breaking kick back. It never came!! The bike finally started on the 6th or 7th kick!! Wow!! He rode it up and down the street and then I took a ride. It seemed to run oknow at lower rims but once we got on it hard it back fired a few times and some black smoke came out of the super Trapp exhaust. It seemed to break up whIle on heavy acceleration. Maybe the stock jetting I had the carbs rebuild with wasn't in tune with aftermarket exhaust or maybe a bad spark plug? Anyway he started it back up several times after it warmed on first kick every time. I haven't found the nerve to try kick starting it yet but I will in a few days.