Checking the Oil?
 

Time for a real noob question sorry, but I've never had a bike with an oil reservoir in the frame before.

I have hell checking the oil on my 2002 XT600E (4PT model) every time.

I took it for a good 20 minute ride, removed the plastic cover, started the engine again for 10 seconds, let the bike stand for 2 minutes, removed and wiped the dipstick, bike upright on a level surface with no weight on it, and checked the level without screwing in the dipstick. It was on the round part of the dipstick about 20-25mm above the max mark. Bugger, not having checked it for a while I was expecting to find it too low!

Syringe and rubber tube, remove 100ml of oil, refit dipstick, start engine for 10 seconds, stand for two minutes, check level. The level on the dipstick hasn't moved.

Repeat the process several times until I've removed 400ml of oil and still showing exactly the same place on the dipstick after 2 minutes, so I stop believing it and let it stand for a bit longer with the dipstick removed. After 3 minutes it's gone down by another 5mm, after 5 minutes another 10mm, after 10 minutes it's where it should be on the full mark.

I have no idea if I have the right amount of oil in my bike or not. I've taken out 400ml of oil, but checking by the instructions in the owners manual, 10 seconds running engine, two minutes standing before removing the dipstick, the level on the dipstick is still 20-25mm too high, and hasn't gone down at all.

If I were to unscrew the dipstick with the engine running, it would squirt out oil, don't know if this is normal to have pressure here or not.

Can anyone help?

Thanks

As long as you have more oil than needed, the excess oil is gonna be thrown away so don't worry!

Being a dry sump setup, I dont think its an issue to be over filled. its FAR better than having too little oil.

Cool, how does that work then, is there an overflow of something?

I read on here that if overfilled it ends up in the airbox?

Ralph,
you're doing it right except for waiting 2 minutes before dipping it.
You have to dip it straight away after switching the engine off.
Bob

So the manual is nonsense then? Wouldn't be the first time :rolleyes2:

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/d...4/scan0005.jpg

Crack Kills!

You can almost never really overfillt he engine. Evene with 400ml extra, you're only over by a good 10%

The engine will just use it, or poor a small amount of it, to the airfilterbox.

It IS really hard to check oil on theese bikes. I take it for a goood spin, let the engine get nice and warm, and then check right when i get home. If you want, you can also try to check it when the oil has "settled" and see if theres a big difference.

Theres a valve in the left sidecover that should prevent the oil from draining down into the engine, if that doesn't seal up 100% you'll have a heck of a time to check the oil.

You'll get by, we all did :)

OK, I'll check it immediately when hot and see where it is. If It's still over I'll stop worrying about it.

So my valve in the left sidecover is not working properly then? Because my level drops the longer the bike has been standing. Is oil draining back down into the engine anything to worry about?

Level
 

I made the mistake when I had my 4PT. I filled to the full level when cold and it dumped tons into the airfilter box and ran VERY badly! Once I'd dumped the excess and ran it for a while it constantly checking it through being paranoid, it finally settled. When starting it in the morning I KNEW there was oil in it even though it didn't show on the dipstick as it does settle back down into the engine (there was nothing wrong with it)and without a very obvious puddle below the bike I knew I'd be good to run it for a mile or two to the fuel stop where I could check. I also permenantly removed the plastic cover and stored it away for ease of access. I did 20,000+ kms on it and it's still running in Africa with a new owner.

As mentioned above, check it when your at the petrol station without letting it settle. Turn off the ignition, whilst still on the bike check the level, then fill with fuel. I found this helps get a routine of checking it also and note the oil burn rate. Once your at an acceptable level it's possible to remove the oil cap without it pissing all over the place. If your not sure, I'd have the oil level at the halfway mark, when it's not too much and not too little until your fully happy to raise the level yourself.

Checking the airbox frequently for excess oil also is good practice and the oil drain pipe situated below.

Hope this helps.

P.s The manual is crap for checking the level, disregard and run for at least a mile and don't let it settle.

You're valve is probably fine, dont worry about it. The oil will often drain below the dipstick, the valve is defect when you cant measure the oil hot, because it istantly drains into the lover portion of the bike.

Sorry if the stament worried/confused you.

I bet you're just fine :)

[quote=-ralph-;297082]So the manual is nonsense then? Wouldn't be the first time :rolleyes2:
.
Yes, the manual is nonsense(probably incorrectly translated from Japanese into English).
Warming it up for 10 seconds is not long enough, should be at least 10 minutes of riding or a very fast idle.
Then check level straight away :thumbup1:
Do a search on here and you will find many more posts with regard to the oil level checking procedure.
Bob

Thanks everybody. About removing 400ml, but the dipstick level not dropping, is there a maximum that the dipstick can possibly read, and I still haven't dropped below that, ie: I had more than 3.1 litres of oil in there?

Thanks

Dump the lot!
 

It seems your not sure exactly how much you have in there, so I'd drain the lot (after a warm up) into a container and remeasure what you put back in, less the amount for a NON OIL FILTER change. If you don't have a sump guard (Ali) on then it'll be an easy job and the you'll know for sure what you have in once and for all!! Remember there's two drain plugs, 1x frame, 1x engine.

IMO, You've spent ages on this, better to remeasure the whole lot again. It'll give you peace of mind!

oh I like what Geoff said!

Just like he said.. you should use a good measuring cup just to be sure!


Vando :cool4:

Well thanks for the advice folks. I checked the oil when cold and sure enough it was at the full mark, way overfilled by somebody. So I decided to give the bike it's annual service even though it has only done a 1000 miles in my care and since it's last service, that according to the service book was carried out by an independent motorcycle garage in Wales.

To start with I drained 3.8 litres of oil (!) from the bike, changed the filter and have carefully measured and refilled with 2.8 litres as per the book.

Then I found the head of the screw to remove the right side panel had been completely mashed by somebody, so I had to drill it, then remove the remains of the screw with mole grips. My air filter looked like this

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/d.../SNC000761.jpg

Then I removed the spark plug, which I had wanted to do when I bought the bike because I thought it was running a little rough and down on power, but until recently I couldn't get hold of the right size spark plug socket. It looked like this

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/d.../SNC000751.jpg

Note the crush washer is rusted into place half way along the thread and at an angle, the spark plug was not even screwed in properly. No wonder the bike doesn't like river crossings and deep water!

So looks like by bike has been maintained by a complete idiot.

Damn it! The oil pressure check bolt has had it's head mashed by some idiot with a spanner too! As I was doing it back up the thread stripped, it still had a couple of mm to go, was turning quite happily, then just a touch of resistance and before I had a chance to react to it, turns free again. Took the bolt back out again and the thread from the inside of the oil filter cover was wrapped round the screw. So now I have had to drain the oil again so I can take the filter cover off and a friend can drill and re-tap it for me (I've never got round to buying a tap and die kit)!

Arrrgggh! My friends expression was, "Well your bike has obviously been maintained by Stevie Wonder"

4.2ltrs!
 

So you took out 3.8ltrs AFTER taking out 400ml from before.......... Phew! It had 4.2 ltrs from a recommended 2.8! :thumbdown: Jeez, I daresay it wouldn't run well from that amount inside it. Good job you drained it and started again methinks! :clap:

The state of the air filter and plug makes me think what else has the previous owner bodged or neglected to do..?

Have fun!

No, I took out 3.4 litres, then add the 400ml, and you get to a total of 3.8. Still it was a litre over!

To be fair, I don't think the previous owner had a clue about bikes, and the bike has a full service history, so it's more like what his garage has neglected to do. I'll stick up the service history shortly.

Does make me wonder though. The bike only has 9000 miles on it, so hopefully nothing really major has been needed (and missed!), but given that I now know I can't trust the service history, I'll be doing the rest of the stuff that should have been done on an 8 year old bike, like changing brake fluid, servicing calipers, etc. Just so that I am happy that the bike is is good condition.

I need to rub down and respray the frame under the seat, and the rear swingarm too as they are showing surface rust in places.

Service History

April 03, 652 miles, Sale Yamaha Centre, Manchester
May 05, 3750 miles, Bill Lomas Motorcycles, Chesterfield
Dec 07, 6829 miles, Jonesies Motorcycles, Conwy, N Wales, Spark plug, oil filter and oil on the invoice
May 09, 8220, Jonesies Motorcycles, Conwy, N Wales, Front pads, Oil filter and oil on the invoice

So the spark plug was probably fitted by Jonesies in 2007, it would seem to have been fitted badly from the start as the crush washer had never been crushed, so it's not like somebody has removed and refitted it since, unless an amateur has changed the whole plug since, but the last owner who used Jonesies said he knew nothing about bikes and had never touched it. And it has probably never had a new air filter since new. The overfill of oil could have been the previous owner.

Your math not mine..!
 

I misunderstood but here's where I got my math from.....

"Thanks everybody. About removing 400ml, but the dipstick level not dropping, is there a maximum that the dipstick can possibly read, and I still haven't dropped below that, ie: I had more than 3.1 litres of oil in there?"

Added to........


To start with I drained 3.8 litres of oil (!) from the bike, changed the filter and have carefully measured and refilled with 2.8 litres as per the book.

= 4.2ltrs. I had a vision of oil bubbling all over the place..!

Anyhow, subject finished........ you have it done, good on you! It's good to know that when you've done a job yourself that it's done correctly.

Regarding the bleed screw, I wouldn't bother with the whole tapping etc business. The small cover it fits in to (assuming we are talking about the oil filter cover bleed screw) is not expensive and easily obtainable from any yamaha dealer. If you ask me it's better to get a new one and keep it all standard.

Yep, I see where your maths comes from, my posts were misleading. I only actually drained 3.4 litres, but I drained the oil into the same container as I had used to empty the 400ml, so when I measured it at the end I had 3.8l

youll find that if you check the oil, and its too high, check it again and its too high then you need to keep removing oil untill it gets to the correct level because the bike can only put so much oil into the oil tank at any time and the excess is generating pressure somewhere it shouldnt be..... ive always been told you can damage an engine by overfilling, does anyone have a definitave answer on this?

Permanent engine damage on a modern motor is unlikely. In the old days before good crankcase venting, pressure could be put on rubber engine seals, especially in very cold weather.

Nowadays fewer internal/external seals are used and most modern motors (like the XT) have good crankcase pressure venting.

Normally, on most bikes when oil is overfilled, the oil will have to go somewhere. At higher RPM's it can be pumped into the air box on many bikes. Most vent from the crankcase into the air box. Excess oil can then be drained from the air box but often times the air filter will become soaked with oil. A foam filter can simply be washed. A paper filter will have to be replaced.

Too much oil means much more friction or drag on the crank and internal moving parts. Too much oil pressure can also cause oil burning, as the excess oil level and pressure forces it past piston rings.