Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB
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Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB (https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/)
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-   -   Drum vs. disc brakes? (https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/yamaha-tech/drum-vs-disc-brakes-24088)

rickg 6 Dec 2006 14:38
like he says, drums are history.

On the road a big trail bike and drums don't mix, I could get one maybe one or two fast stops on a Suzuki SP400 or XT500 before the lever was back at the bars due to the drum expanding with heat. You really are onto a loser with a small drum, heavy bike and a big wheel e.g. old trail bikes that'll top 70mph

In the mud and deep water they are a liability as the mud gets into the works and takes an age before the crap clears from the shoes, if it ever does, otherwise it's a strip-down. That's when you discover the cam bearing has worn oval because it's got full of that mud which wouldn't come out..

So drums vs disks..let's see how many performance bikes (road or dirt) we can count that still use drums.. one..(no that's a Harley)..errr..

electric!sheep 6 Dec 2006 15:33
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokinrider
If your going to retro fit a drum brake i would suggest taking the starter motor off of your car and replacing it with the trusty starting handle.
Well, my housemate now has to park on hills with the car I sold him for $150. So who needs a starter motor, or handle for that matter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smokinrider
same for the bike, junk the e start and fit a kick.
Never had an e-start, and got the XT because I didn't want one. Even though I have bad knees.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smokinrider
why not move into a cave and do away with 1000's of years of evolution all together.
My cave is quite comfortable, thank you very much.

As for my brow ridge, DON'T EVEN GO THERE.

martyboy 6 Dec 2006 16:10
Drum versus disc, no contest, disc wins.
I`d go with spike, use another setup on front to give you the lift that has a disc fitted

oldbmw 6 Dec 2006 21:07
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Ron
I have to question this line of thinking. Drum brakes are far more complicated than disk brakes. Here's my case:

-Drum brakes activate on a cam, which must ride on either a bushing or bearing. Both are prone to wear.
-Drum brakes use springs, which are prone to breaking and possibly dificult to find a suitable replacement.
I have Never had to replace either springs or bushings, but if i did need to, any village blacksmith in the third world would be able to fix it.

-When drums rust, your brakes will stick until everything is worn away.
-Drum brakes SUCK when they get wet!
same applies to disks...

-Drum brakes are dinosaur technology and were replaced with a simpler, more eficient disc system.
Dinasaurs were around longer than mammals, many beleive they evolved into birds.

-Drum brakes need some form of adjustment, probably a cable. That being said, cable operated brakes are grosely ineficient with more parts to maintain.
maybe so, but they easily non technically fixable...

-All cars all around the world operate with disk brakes. This means if you can find a mechanic that fixes brakes, they will most likely be able to help you.
-Almost all bikes in the world have disk brakes, so parts can be found or altered in a pinch.
ok, go into your ford garage and get your motorbike seals or pads replaced.

Disc brakes are incredibly simple, self adjusting and efficient.They have a minimum amount of moving parts, and are all hydraulicly operated. They are very easy to maintain. It's your brakes and how you use them that will save your life in certain circumstances. Given the choice, i would never swap diacs for drum brakes. :)
Actually, i did not say modern disk brakes were worse than drum, just that in third world countries drums are about sufficient, and more maintainable.

oldbmw 6 Dec 2006 21:16
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokinrider

If your going to retro fit a drum brake i would suggest taking the starter motor off of your car and replacing it with the trusty starting handle. same for the bike, junk the e start and fit a kick.

DRUM brakes, i ask you. what next.
Most modern ignition systems wont start on a flat battery because the electronics need near full voltage to operate the ignition syatem. So a kickstart wont work. Nor can you bumpstart. On all of my old Triumphs i just had to turn the ignition switch to emergency if i had left the lights on and had a flat battery. it would then start as normal.

Understand, the bike and features I would want for touring third world countries are no necessarily what I would choose for western Europe. You have to be in a rural area out of mobile phone contact before you can appreciate the different needs.

Mr. Ron 6 Dec 2006 21:49
I'm Changing Over!
 
Well, i'm convinced! I'm changing over tomorrow! Bloody disk brakes with Everything that can fail on them....no, the Ludites are correct! Why have a nearly maintinence free system when you can give some blacksmith in Somalia a job forging a spring or laminating a new pad onto a shoe. Or maybe give the Bolivian bikeshop some business replacing a frayed cable or turning a new bushing?
...yeh, right. Great idea!....Use drum brakes! They're easier to fix???... After all, the third world has never heard of such a revolutionary item as disk brakes. After all, in the third world, who needs brakes?
This is getting silly, time to move on.
I just hope Electric Sheep can tell the diference between good advise and bad advise.

John Ferris 6 Dec 2006 23:21
Calm down Mr Ron, the last I knew you had both drums and disc brakes.
Or did you buy a "modern bike".

electric!sheep 7 Dec 2006 01:01
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Ron
Well, i'm convinced! I'm changing over tomorrow! Bloody disk brakes with Everything that can fail on them....no, the Ludites are correct! Why have a nearly maintinence free system when you can give some blacksmith in Somalia a job forging a spring or laminating a new pad onto a shoe. Or maybe give the Bolivian bikeshop some business replacing a frayed cable or turning a new bushing?
Well, let's compare disc brake to drum brake failures, and see how you'd deal with either in the bush. How am I going to get a tribesman to rebuild my master cylinder? With drum brakes, I could make a bushing from wood, pads from bark, a spring from the bones of a small fish, a cable from antelope sinew, etc.

:lol2:

Mr. Ron 7 Dec 2006 01:26
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Ferris
Calm down Mr Ron, the last I knew you had both drums and disc brakes.
Or did you buy a "modern bike".
Yeh, your right! I can honestly say i speak from experience. Actually, it's kind of funny, i ordered a new set of shoes today. $112!! Can you beleive that!?!
BTW...They suck! I'm glad its on the back, if i put all my weight into the pedal i can start to feel something hapening back there
Over on Adventrider Ricardo Kuhn is doing some interesting work on trying to retrofit a 2nd gen. Paralever bevel onto a first gen. swingarm. They actually seem pretty close in dimensions. Unfortunately when my drum finally goes i'll have to replace the whole hub $$$. Do you know if they can be re-lined?
Mr. Sheep. Please do whatever makes you feel comfortable. If you really feel that drum brakes are easier to fix/maintain, then go ahead and do the swap. I hope you have a strong right forearm and good judgement of distance to the car in front of you ;)

AliBaba 7 Dec 2006 09:27
I’m not a big fan of drum brakes, but I still have one left on the bike.

IMHO you can almost always fix a drum brake with your toolkit and an extra wire if it fails in the middle of nowhere. It might be hard to fix a hydraulic hose, brake-cylinder or caliper without parts (I never carry brake-fluid or spare gaskets).

At two different occasions I have seen bikes where stones have come between the swing arm and rear wheel and trashed the disk (once the caliper was also gone).
On my bike(s) I have spend far more time on money on servicing the disk brakes then the drum brakes.

http://www.actiontouring.com/IS2003_0150.jpg
(From a remote spot on Iceland. It’s not easy to see on the picture but the disk is bended so much that you could not fit the caliper)

Status after 180kkm:

Disk (front):
Changed brake pads three times
Changed brake line
Changed master cylinder
Overhauled caliper
Changed disk

Drum (rear):
Changed brake pads two times
Changed brake wire

But the disk is superior in braking force and I would never mount a drum in the front.

So one of the reasons I have kept my drum rear brake is because it always work and I can fix it everywhere.

oldbmw 7 Dec 2006 21:04
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliBaba
I’m not a big fan of drum brakes, but I still have one left on the bike.

IMHO you can almost always fix a drum brake with your toolkit and an extra wire if it fails in the middle of nowhere. It might be hard to fix a hydraulic hose, brake-cylinder or caliper without parts (I never carry brake-fluid or spare gaskets).

At two different occasions I have seen bikes where stones have come between the swing arm and rear wheel and trashed the disk (once the caliper was also gone).
On my bike(s) I have spend far more time on money on servicing the disk brakes then the drum brakes.

http://www.actiontouring.com/IS2003_0150.jpg
(From a remote spot on Iceland. It’s not easy to see on the picture but the disk is bended so much that you could not fit the caliper)

Status after 180kkm:

Disk (front):
Changed brake pads three times
Changed brake line
Changed master cylinder
Overhauled caliper
Changed disk

Drum (rear):
Changed brake pads two times
Changed brake wire

But the disk is superior in braking force and I would never mount a drum in the front.

So one of the reasons I have kept my drum rear brake is because it always work and I can fix it everywhere.
Thanks Alibaba, I agree modern disk brakes have more stopping power, They stopped the 'long way round crew' until a tech rep was flown out from Germany to their bike in russia because their support team mechanics could not fix a brake problem. I dont mean to misguide anyone, if you in western Europe or N america, disk brakes would be my choice. But off the beaten track not. However I dont think i would take the trouble to swap either way... provided the front and rear were separate systems, so at least I could continue if one failed. Unfortunately the Bmw of 'long Way Round' had a linked system, so when the ABS failed it left the bike with NO brakes at all. (contrary to the sales hype). Frankly these days I do most of my riding in UK,France, Belgium, Germany and Spain and am of the credit card +mobile phone breakdown philosophy in that environment. Out side of that comfort zone it can get down to mole grips and wire :)

milkman 15 Dec 2006 11:05
Stray cow, deer, kid. car ect etc.
I want disks.

I have an SR500 that was converted from a disk to a drum front fo the cafe racer look, but it takes all the racer out of it as I don't go fast as the breaks wont stop me in time.

Disks for sure if you can.

milkman 15 Dec 2006 11:12
I meant brakes, not breaks.....


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