Help! How do I connecting a cigarette lighter socket kit to an XT battery?
 

Help! How do I connecting a cigarette lighter socket kit to an XT battery?

I don't want to bugger up my electrics, so thought I'd run it by people to see if there are any potential problems.

If I buy the kit below, can I simply wire it into the battery or would I need to take another approach, for example placing a fuse one the wires?


http://www.nippynormans.com/prodinfo...em=17&mitem=28

Any help or advise would be much appreciated.

Iain.

Hi Iain,
I ran a wire (using an appropriate ring connector) from the positive terminal of my battery to the positive terminal of the 12v socket. On this wire I fitted an in-line fuse of 5 Amps (I'm fairly sure it was).
I then ran a wire from the negative terminal of the 12v socket to a suitable earth on the bike. Somewhere on the frame is ideal, mine uses a ring connector round one of the passenger handle bolts.
It works fine.
Matt

Batteries
 

How's it going Matt?

Thanks for the information.

How are you settling back in after your trip, have you anything else planned?

Cheers,

Iain.

Earth
 

Matt,

The one I've been looking at does not seem to have an earth wire, do you have details of the one you brought, perhaps a link?

Cheers,

Iain.

Hi Iain,
I'm not too bad, just got an office (shudder) job to pay off the debts. Was thinking about going to South America in 2008 actually, but am now diversifying my adventure by doing 5 smaller trips, not all on a motorbike (I know, heresy eh?!) .
So far the trips include: Trans Sahara, possibly to Timbuctou on the XT; a big open canoe trip down one of the big rivers in the Canadian wilderness; skiing across the Hardangervidda in Norway. Not sure about the other two trips yet. Man, 2008 is going to be a fun year!

I had a look at your link for your 12v adapter. It appears to have a red and black wire protruding. The red should be your positive and the black your negative (or earth) wire. However, if your one only has one wire then it is either missing a wire (!) or meant to be earthed through the body work where you bolt it to the bike. I'd say the first is more likely.

Matt

PS- Sorry, can't remember where I got mine.

Confused
 

So do I know just connect the red to the positive and the black to the negative, the earth connection this throwing me.

Are you saying I should connect the red to the positive and the black to the frame, RATHER than the negative?


Sounds like you have some good trips planned. I reckon my next trip after South America is going to be London to Cape Town. Not sure how much cash I'd need for that, but this is the plan.

Thanks for your help on this.

Connecting so it turns off when the engine is off
 

One final question, do you know how to connect the cigarette socket up so that it does not give power when the ignition is switched off?

Cheers,

Iain.

lighter connection
 

to connect the lighter plug so there is no power when the bike is switched off you need to find a wire that has power once ignition is turned on.
suggest go to fuse box, select thickest wire and take a feed off this.turn ign on / off to make sure power goes on/off. if you don't have a multi meter to do this then use a small 12v bulb with some wires attached etc.also reccomend putting an in line fuse if using this method.
drawback to this means bike will have to be on while using lighter plug.if this is for a while you risk burning out coil if bike not running.you could always fit a small toggle switch on the red wire to turn power on/off that way.

Hi Iain,
Sorry, I'll try to clear this up. You should have two wires, one red, which you attatch to the positive terminal of your battery, and one black. This is the negative wire, also known as the earth. It can either be attatched to the negative terminal of your battery (which is earthed to the frame of your bike) or attatched straight to the frame of your bike. either way it will provide a circuit to provide power for your 12v adapter socket.

Normally the black negative/earth wire is attatched to the frame rather than the battery. I'm not sure why but there is probably a good reason.

Hope this helps.

PS- Note that car electrics are not like those in your house, there is not seperate earth and negative wires.

Matt

The coil
 

Is there a chance the coil could burn out if the cigarette lighter is connected straight to the battery?

I don't see why that should be a problem as you are connecting a completely different circuit, however, I'm no electrics expert.
Matt

12v
 

OK,
the red wire (centre pin on the lighter socket) needs to go to a fuse, blade style fuses are more vibration resistant than inline cartridge fuses. These are easily obtainable from any auto factor/ spares shop. this then goes to red/+12v. on the battery.

the black wire 0volts, (-ive is the same thing) is better going direct to the battery. that if you have a bad earth and you are stuck in sh.tsville, you can use a lead to another bike/car to charge the battery. If you are going to do this you will need to bypass the fuse, 5 Amps will not be enough for a fast charge.
Do NOT try starting the bike whilst still connected to another vehicle. Current surges may well fry your CDI.

The -ive terminal on your battery will be connected to the frame of your bike, It is a common failing for this link to corrode, give poor starting, dim lights etc.

Fuse
 

I would put an inline or a bus fuse on the wires to the lighter just as a safety precaution.

No !! The only thing you can damage here is whatever is connected to the socket.

Also, you WILL have an earth. You can earth the socket to the frame or the battery , makes no difference.

An inline fuse is a must too. Whatever you plug into the socket should/will have its own method of regulation if its a proper ciggy lighter adaptor.

Always fit a fuse to a new circuit.

Fit the fuse as close as possible to the Battery (or voltage source).

The purpose of a fuse is to protect THE WIRE from carrying more current than it can handle without overheating, melting insulation, starting a fire, etc etc.

Size the wire according to the load (i.e. how much current the expected load will require will determine the appropriate wire size).

Size the fuse according to the wire size.

The fuse is NOT there to protect the load.


If you need help, ask

If your wiring something straight into your battery with out its own regulation then you really need some kind of regulation there too. A few capacitors in the circuit should do the trick.

since wiring caps in the circuit will act as a filter (remove AC ripple), I'm not at all certain what you're suggesting here.

what "regulation" are you referring to?

a DC load is only going to draw amperage according to resistance (Ohm's law).

I suspect there's a cultural/language/terminology misunderstanding going on here, so a little discussion might help clarification.

Im no sparky so i may be talking crap, im just repeating what i was told by a auto electrician that i asked when i was looking into this myslef.

He said that capacitors can/should be used to smooth the flow. The draw of a GPS is minute compared to what a battery 'can' push. Ill dig up the thread when i have a bit more time.. to be continued !

Not a lecky either, but...

I understood that the main issue for 'some form of regulation' is to filter out spikes generated by the alternator/generator or when other equipment (starter motor) kicks in. Regulator is mostly to protect your auxilliary equipment. However, if you use the socket for charging the battery you will still have to have voltage regulation (as in your charging cirquit) to protect your battery. ...I think

Jens

yes
that's what I meant when I said caps will remove ripple (AC) from a dc circuit.
a cap will not pass DC voltage.
if you hook a cap to a dc circuit and to ground it will pass ac, thus "grounding" the ac component of the voltage ... removing it from the DC and "smoothing" it or remove the ripple.

it does not matter a whit if you have a battery capable of "pushing" 1000 amps, if the load only draws 1/2 amp at X voltage, that's all that will be present in the circuit.

Ohm's Law

E=IR

where E = voltage, I = current in amps & R= resistance in ohms

E/R=I

it's the voltage potential or the resistance (load) that will change the current.

with a 12 volt battery and a GPS drawing 0.5A the resistance of the GPS is the only thing that will cause the current to increase other than the voltage increasing.

try it with a potentiometer, an ammeter and a battery

stick the ammeter in series with a pot of say 50 ohms value and 1 watt power rating across a small 12 v battery, say a lantern battery or something of the sort.

with the pot set at 50 ohms the ammeter should show about 0.24 Amps or 240 mA.

now unhook it from the small battery and hook it across your 12 volt auto battery, which is capable of delivering over 1000A for a short period of time.

the current will not change, unless you tweak the pot or have a higher voltage battery.

that's why a fuse is there to protect the wire, not the component.
if the component draws too much current it's already buggered.

say your GPS pops a 1/2 Amp fuse when it's been working fine on it.

you verify that there's nothing else in the circuit to cause the increase in current, corroded connection adding resistance, wire frayed (reducing diameter and thus the current capacity, adding resistance), wire shorting to ground.

you can stick a 10 A fuse in there and the GPS will probably release all of its magic white smoke, because it has gone bad. the fuse did not protect it from failing, it had already failed.

I am a sparky ... i.e. Electrical Controls Engineer/Designer who started as an Instrumentation and Controls Technician decades ago.

feel free to ask questions, I respond often on ADVRider.com to electrical issues, if I have a clue (which is not always :biggrin3: )

c'ya

PS like how do I use my custom avatar on here???

Better Sockets
 

Iain,
Not sure if this is a bit late now, but if you search the web for a local chandlers (marine supliers), you'll probably find that they supply better quality waterproof sockets, which are made of brass, so they will not corrode if your bike lives outdoors like mine.

Andy