Is this just condensation in oil?
 

Hello chaps,

I'm hoping you can help me out with something.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...t/628b54f8.jpg

That was the state of my oil last month after doing lots of 2 mile journeys over the winter period. I dropped the oil out and changed the filter but there was no white gunk and the oil wasn't milky at all.

I put fresh oil in and today when I opened the filler cap again today I was faced with similar but not as bad as the picture above. I assumed it was condensation before but something confused me - would there really be that much to raise the level that high. Also, it looked like the oil was "fizzing" with lots of tiny bubbles with the occasional big bubble.

The bike is running fine.

Any ideas?

That can happen around the filler cap but if ALL your oil is like that then that's not good.

Drop your oil and see what it's like in a large container.

Hi Ted,

Last time it was like this I dropped the oil and the oil was fine - it had less than 1000 miles on it and looked absolutely fine.

Condensation emulsification occurs when the engine regularly does not warm sufficiently to evaporate off initial condensation forming of cold surfaces - and previous condensation.
It tends to form and remain on colder part of the engine not fully imersed in oil (like rocker covers and tops of reservoirs) sooner than in the circulating oil itself.

Your 2 mile trips probably are not enough. Go the long way and have a regular longer ride!

I heard a standard type car engine needs between 10 and 20 miles to get all parts to optimum working temperature.

If you're sure the rest of the oil is fine then I would do what Tony P says and take it for a really good long ride. Get the oil right up to working temperature and keep it there. It shouldn't take long on these air cooled bikes in slow traffic :cool4:

Obviously, make sure the oil level is correct and it's not leaking out of anywhere obvious and all that blaah blaah blaah.

You could invest in a screw in Oil temperature guage. I had one on mine. IT replaces the oil filler cap.


You can also get oil looking like this if it were water cooled and it is weeping in (it isn't) or maybe if your head gasket is sucking in air/condensation.

Let it sit warming up for 15 mins, seems nobody warms up there engines anymore.

Mezo.

Did you mix semi-synthetic oil with fully synthetic oil?????????

I do warm my engine up by riding it gently for the first few miles. Sitting for 15 mins idling won't do it many favours.

No, but there's no reason why you shouldn't.

Wont harm it though will it? take the advice or leave it its up top you.

Mezo.

I wouldnt leave my bike to sit 15min just idling if I could help it.

It's most likely condensation from your short trips.

On the other hand I had the same problem on my car and it turned out to be a splitted hose for the crankcase-ventilation.

Dont think I'd leave my bike ticking over for 15 minutes. A water cooled engine will have the fan on after about 10, from stone cold.

Thats a long time with no air flow.

Maybe doesnt apply here, but older engines with worn oil pumps dont make the pressure at tickover, they need a few revs to force the stuff round. My old man had an old tractor that seized after being left ticking over for only about 10 minutes

Would really piss the neigbours off at 7 in the morning, and some little git will probably ride away on it while your not looking.

I'm sure I read, in Performance Bikes, years ago, that as the best way to warm it up is to ride it gently. Give it long enough to get the oil pumped round, then go. As soon as its warm enough to pull away, then pull away.

Horses for courses, ive snapped bolts in wintertime through "gently riding" and i learned an expensive lesson (an air cooled Ducati expensive lesson) and i wont make that 2k mistake again.

Mind you here now where i live i no longer need to worry about that as the temp doesn't get down as low as when i was living up top.

Now whats the temp in sunny surrey right now? zero to plus ten? i miss the UK i really do. :freezing:

Mezo.

A balmy 18 degrees in the south east this week.

What bolts snap? Never heard of that before.

No, don't tick over your engine to warm it up, start the bike, stick your helmet and gloves on, your engine should be idling smoothly at above 2k revs by this point, push your choke in a touch to settle it down and ride away. Take it easy for the couple of miles, or at the very least until the bike is warm enough to tick over with no choke.

On any bike oil circulation is not optimal at tickover, getting oil circulation on a cold engine is essential, and on an air cooled bike for 15 minutes it's going to get way too hot.

As for the OP, if you are worried (you were worried enough to post this thread) then drop the oil again, it doesn't cost much. If all seems OK, then just make sure you are warming the bike up properly, 2 miles is not enough.

Is the bike garaged? If so, is your garage dry or does it suffer from condensation or damp generally?

Thats what I thought!

As for OP, change you oil and go for a decent ride on the thing. Ride it for an hour, that should sort it out.

Bevels too.
 

Don't forget also that with a shaft drive bike the bevel gears' lubrication in the final drive needs to warm up as well as engine/gearbox oil. Leaving a shaftie ticking over to warm up the engine oil will leave the rider driving off with a cold final drive box. I understand also, that engines wear more if left ticking over than if under a load. I don't know exactly why but accept the advice of an experienced mechanic. Lindsay.

It will probably wear more if left to tick over for a prolonged time when cold. Also, the choke will make the engine run rich (to warm up faster). If left ticking over with the choke engaged you'll have a very clean, non-lubricated cylinder after a while, that definitly wears faster.

I've read claims from various experts (whomever they are) that the best way to warm up an engine is under a modest load, and that lengthy idling is not good for small engines. :confused1:

It's the law, don't you know??
 

It's an interesting discussion and all the folklore I have listened to has also said to ride/drive off more or less immediately after starting the engine but under low loading, all in sympathy with the engine = low revs on the throttle for a mile or 3.

Apart from that, I understand that in Germany it has been illegal for some years now to warm up an engine while stationary because of "Green" legislation.
My guess is this will still be the case, but have such rules spread to any other EU countries, or further afield?

No law on that in the UK - yet - but give 'em time ...

As with most responses above, I have always believed that the best procedure with a bike or a car is to let it idle until it will idle smoothly (and with a well-tuned engine that will be almost immediately) and then ride/drive off gently. Use modest revs and throttle loadings until the engine is fully warm, and then cane the t*ts off it. :) On my usual journeys, I wait until I have covered about 1.5 - 2 miles befiore I use the throttle in anger.

A simple rule of thumb:

If the cylinder walls are warm to the touch then the oil definitely is.

On a water cooled bike, warm is when the water temp guage starts to move or register if it's digital.

Id always give an engine 1-2 mins before I ride off on it. Just to let the oil get warm and moving through the pump, jets and over the cams before any serious load is put on the engine.

It's an old and tired subject, but the bottom line is that an engine isn't designed to be loaded or worked hard when stone cold.

And that's exactly where the argument starts Ted, people debate over whether to 'let it tick over to warm up', without actually defining what people mean by that. 1-2 minutes (i.e helmet and gloves on), or 15 minutes (i.e. significantly above normal operating temperature). Coating the engine with oil from cold to prevent premature wear is one thing (remember the days of Slick 50?), running for extended lengths at time at low oil pressure and high temperature is quite another

Not an XT a Ducati (air cooled) the bolts that hold your head/barrel on to the bottom snap if you font warm em properly, common problem fixed with some corse bolts.

Mezo.

Wow, that's not one you hear about frequently, fortunately.

Those early Ducatis were held together by WW2 surplus bolts.... With WW2 Italian quality.

What load of wank, what there's some tosser standing by your driveway with a stopwatch making sure your within EU regulations?

I would warm the bike up good & proper then run the ***** over.

Man i hate this PC bullshit.

Mezo.

Talk to Baines Racing, they have been paying for the kids education for years with them spaghetti like head bolts,
like i said the CORSE replacements fix the problems.

Mezo.

So the issue is with the bolts, and how you warm up the bike is just Ducati's excuse?

Well, it is not my favourite item either; just thought I would mention it in case the law has changed much.
Of course, this has had a much bigger impact to date in the design of gazoline powered engines - catalytic converters, advanced electronics etc etc.

While still off topic of the oil condensation, I don't think there are "green police" just yet, but peer group pressure has a way of bringing these things into place; for instance, German society is very law abiding and it has a culture of obeying rules and regulations that would be alien to Anglo-Saxons. Probably best if a German national, or two, comes in at this point. Not picking on you guys!! It's just that your national government took a lead within the EU in this type of legislation quite a few years ago.
Probably better still if I stop going :offtopic:

Sorry this went a bit off topic, from warming an engine to Ducati head bolts on an XT forum?

The problem in the older bikes (with spagetti like bolts) is the front cylinder hangs out there in the cool air & its normally the one that snaps first, i knew you was supposed to let them warm up good & proper & had already covered three miles before i gave it a handful & snap.

Ive seized motocross bikes up as well through not warming them up enough.

Thread hijack over.

Mezo.