Oil leak problem.
 

I wonder if anyone else have problems with the sealent of the valve cover, i have done the sealent now 3 times and its a small leak on the right side in the front. Its hard to tell exactly where it comes from due to the small amount and it only comes when riding. I have taken the head off the last 2 times and cleaned it well before applying the Loctite, maybe making a normal paper gasket is the only way getting it sealed?

Can you post a good picture???
Be careful where you use a paper gasket as usually in heads where isn’t one is for a reason.

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Seems like its somewhere here in the front right side.

Stick some masking tape over/along the head joint - the "paper based " type used for decorating etc. Clean the surfaces thoroughly first so that the tape sticks well and it is not stained by existing oil.
Then take the bike for a ride and see where the tape is stained by new leakage; this should give you a good clue about where the leak originates.

Using any gasket at all under the rockerbox will alter the clearance for the cam shaft bearings. I would NOT do that under any circumstances. Perhaps some high temp silicon, let it cure before starting.

Yamabond 4, I believe. It could be 7 though. One of them is low viscosity so it won't build up. There must be one little low spot in one of the surfaces that need a good liquid gasket to fill and seal.

I use Yamabond #4 as well. Just sealed a rocker box but waiting on CDI to start bike.

I will be getting the first production unit that is fully programmable, shipping next week. I'll report on it after running it a bit.

The antikickback feature will be a good addition. Kicking minimum RPM is adjustable and if rpm is slower than programmed value, no spark, no kickback.

More later

I was checking the data sheet for the product and it says 3. The bond should be allowed to cure (e.g. seven days),
before subjecting to heavy service loads.

Is that normal? Nothing about this on the package, it ony says 15min for parts to come togheter.

Talked to Loctite and they recomended Loctite 5188 or 574 instead of the silicon, how much clearence do you think its between the cover and head around?

7days was if you have a thick line.

Wurth super RTV is also used, Yamaha dealer didnt have the Yamabond 4.

Iam going to do some reaserch to find out exactly where its coming from, the suggestion with maskin tape was good and ill try it next trip. Thanks.

Since this is a machined surface, the sealer will only be filling the very small voids, the rest is squeezed out. It is engineered for this so the cam bearing clearances will be fine.

I've noticed on eBay that the head and rocker box is sometimes sold separately, which is a mistake. There are markings on both that is some type of matchings system. I just don't know what it it. I have see this type of marking on primary drive gear and clutch driven gear. The total of the numbers etched in must fall within a certain range to be a match. Most likely the same way here or they MUST be a matched pair. I seen case halfs that have numbers on the top and bottom half on horizontally split cases that must match to be sure it seals.

Yes, I would think you'd want to let dry once assembled. The assembly time is just that, let it get tacky before assembling. Yamabond #4 is like that. My rocker box will have been sitting a month before I get to start it....

Steve

Ya it stinks to put it all together and then sit, and wait. But to get best seal and not have those annoying oil spots that collect dust, a few days isn't so bad. If I did some motor work, I'll assemble and start to make sure all is well then shutdown and take the covers back off, cleanup, then do the sealing and wait a few days to ride.

Toyoto dealerships have a really nice sealant, don't know the name right now but it comes highly recommended.

Ye maybe thats the problem, i waited for 3 hours before riding. But then again why would i get the oil out on the same side every time and its not like a big pressure and oil flowing all over the inside wall. As you all know its not a very fun job doing time after time stripping all down to get the cover off..

Have been out riding and not much to see under the tape, iam starting to think the problem comes from the O ring part 16 on this Yamaha Xt600ea (non-cal./cal) 1990 Valve - schematic partsfiche

I was looking at this last time i had the cover off, but couldnt remove the shaft, i removed the bolt 17 but the shaft just turned around. Is this a shaft you have to tap out?

My Honda XL has shafts similar to that and one really leaked.The shaft should just slip out , maybe the o-ring has a slight groove it rides in or the rocker has worn a burr on it. Did you pry on it rom the inside?

No i was i bit careful last time, i will try to seal it from outside just to make shure its the correct place the oil is coming from. I cant see any good reason why they made this open in the end, the other side is not open and they are not connected.

The leak came from the rocker shaft O-ring seal..Tried to do a seal from outside but ot wont last so then i have to take the cover off again..

Rocker box seal
 

I have been riding my xt600 since my Hyperpak CDI has arrived. nary a leak on the top side. I did discover the seal below the kickstart where the compression release cable attaches is leaking quite a bit. I also noticed the stator side gasket is leaking. I've already replaced the Clutch over gasket but will have to pull it again to replace the compression release shaft seal. I am hoping this will dry up all the oil leaks and I can reinstall the skid plate.

I has been 12 years since I rode this bike and I must say, I am thrilled at how it runs. It starts easy with the new CDI and pulls like a tractor.

As soon as the Zeeltronic PCDI-XT arrives, I will swap the CDI out and start testing it. Can't wait.....:scooter::scooter::D

I believe you can replace that seal without having to open the engine as the compression release cable seal is fitted from the outside...

But wait for someone to say something cause I don't recall it very well...they might know better than me!

Well, that would be a plus. I'll see if anyone can advise, still waiting for seal to arrive.

Ya, you take the little cover below the kicker shaft off and the cable is attached to the shaft via a flat lever. Take the nut, washer and spring off then pry the seal out. May need a small sheet metal screw to thread into the side of the seal and pry out on the screw, Then grease up and carefully seat the new one in. Reattaching the cable ,lever , and spring all at once with only 2 hands can be a pain.

That worked OK then; lack of evidence of leaking oil is positive information in the overall scheme of things. :thumbup1:

Or you could just take the decompression cables off altogether! I can kick my XT without the decompression cables with a good powerkick...

You seriously can Bacardi? (Not trying to be argumentative). I have tried that and have never gotten it past the compression stroke, even going slow to find tdc, I can stand on the lever just trying to get it past, eventually it'll go, but then letting the lever back up, I gave it a good hard kick, it'll go till the next compression(usually 3/4 stroke of the kicker) then stop dead and, the last time I did it, tipped the bike right over because all my weight was on the right side pushing down and the dead stop ,lost balance. Will never try that again. Even my Honda does that if I forget to pull the little relief lever.

Yes I can :) well, not right now because one of the issues I've come across is the bolt that tightens the kickstart to the shaft is laying in some road somewhere lol it came undone and fell off..

I have a manual choke on mine because I fitted the raptor 660 carbs..
First, you have to leave the ignition key OFF!
Put the bike on the kickstand AND
Second you have to press the kickstart lever until you find TDC, let the kickstart come all the way up and gently put some pressure on it so it'll go past TDC just a tiny bit (you will feel the stroke moving) and let it come back up all the way!
Third, turn on the ignition key, (turn OFF all the lights if you can) pull the choke out, (I usually give it two/three full throttle twists and let go off the throttle)
Forth put your foot on the kickstart to remove the slack and give it a good LONG hard kick as if you were trying to make a hole on the floor with your foot and she'll start right up first try cold or not! (you can't "stop" the kick, it has to "hit the bottom" and stop).

You also have to have the idle RPM set right or you won't be able to start the bike with what I just described! and you do need a battery on these XT's with TCI!


Vando ;)

Ya that start procedure is how I do it now only I need to kick it 3 to 5 times with full choke and ignition off, not hard fast kicks but steady somewhat fast kicks. Then I get it back to just after tdc, turn ignition on, Then the hard "foot to :chinese:" kick. If I do not do this it WILL backfire :gun_bandana:, it WILL mess up my ankle even worse than it already has :wheelchair:, and it WILL brake the case even more than it already is :nuke:. This is why I am trying to get an electric start bottom end for the motor(just won a bid on the crank, side cover, one-way gear/bearing, and cases) and why I HATE those :9898: stock carbs. And yes I have done everything possible to get it to start better, it isn't possible with those carbs :surrender:. I have the Raptor carbs all ready but it's a winter project along with the electric start conversion, finally.:funmeteryes:
Anyways, just to get mine to slowly push past tdc, I need to stand on or at least push real hard for a period of time till it finally gives in and goes. I guess that shows that it still has great compression and doesn't leak it. Too bad it runs like :9898: from those carbs, can't lean it out any more with parts available. The mixture screw is turned in tight plus the left intake boot nozzle is unplugged, still running rich. 2nd cdi, same :9898:.

:oops2: :offtopic: doh :surrender:

I've had to start mine in the past without the decompression release when the cable breaks, and it does often. I am looking at getting a custom cable made of heavier material so it will last. My compression is 170 lbs and at the top of the range according to the manual. It is very hard to kick over and even get it past the TDC plus very hard on my knees. With the compression release it usually starts on 1st kick maybe 2nd if cold.

Very curious you are running rich with the stock carbs. I have just finished rebuilding 2 sets of stock carbs. Nothing very tricky, just verify ALL passages are clear. I use a carb cleaner in a pressure can with a straw and blow liquid thru every passage. Sounds like you may have an air passage blocked if you are running rich.

The hardest thing to set correctly is the float level. Using the bowl drain and a clear tube along side the float bowl is the "only" way to verify it is right. Not bragging, but mine starts and runs perfectly after a carb rebuild and a new CDI.

Everything is clean and float level is correct. I know my way around a carb, been doing it for a while. I've even owned a Raptor 660 and modded it quite a bit, tuned it with both carbs, never had an issue. The whole issue is that I can't get the correct sized jets needed and the needles are non adjustable.

I understand, that can be a problem.... What year is your bike?

You can raise the needle (lean it out) with small shims.

As for jets, I've soldered the hole in a jet before, and drilled it out with a smaller drill = custom leaner jet :innocent:

Jens boy.. you're going the wrong way... it's the other way around! removing shims(dropping the needle) is leaning! adding shims will lift the needles and allow more fuel to pass thru the main jet!

Brainfart! Sorry.

Well, cut a groove in the needle instead, and use a clip to retain it.

It's an '88 US model. This particular year the needles can't be shimmed do to the holder and setscrew not allowing any up down movement of the needle. I was able to flip the one washer to the top to drop them a little but that's it. I was always thinking of making my own jets(the best solution), but time to do it plus the fact that I have the Raptor carbs to put in already, don't know if it's worth it. I see in parts breakdowns, other years have moveable needles, mine seem to be oddballs, probably why I have issues and most others don't.

I still have problem with leak, done the sealing about 5 times now with different seals. Last i bought the yamabond with no luck, the leak is located in front right side at the innerscrew. Any good suggestion how to get this fixed? its not much that comes out, but its dripping down on the exhaust pipe..

Hi xtrock,
I have no answer for you, i am replying just to say you are not alone with a leak in the area you have. Mine leaks since i replaced the valve seals two years ago. I used loctite 5920 amd i thought i was very careful when i was applying it
It was my intention to fix it when i could, but after reading about your trouble I may not bother

Good luck!

Bill

None of the five motors I have together either in bike or was in a bike have that leak, though most do have some little seeps here and there, but no dripping. The area your talking about is the hottest area, right above the exhaust valves, I wonder if that has anything to do with it. I put my thermocouples there for watching head temp and there is quite a difference in temps between there and else ware on the head. I see 250 to 280F when going slow or stoplight traffic.

I use Permatex Specialty Gasket Makers : Permatex® MotoSeal® 1 Ultimate Gasket Maker Grey

Yes its hot there, but its not in the front where its hottest the problem is. Its more from that screw and towards spark plug, wonder if the cover is not straight enough at the point and seal is not enough. Most job with sealing this is getting the seal stuff off.. Ill give it one more shot and inspect the area where problem is, 10nm is not much on the bolts and if its not correct i recon to much pressure will squeeze the sealint out on the thinnest points.

Ok here we go again, sealed again this weekend and waited 3 days before use. Same spot around the left screw, surface was straight, no damage and cleaned perfect. I cant see any leak when engine is only idling, must happend something when riding. Maybe i ride in hills and get alot of oil in front, but why only on this spot? Its all dry around the cover else, damn iam fed up with this leak......All bolts are tighten with 10nm.

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Is there any chance the oil could be seeping down the thread of the bolt?. Just a thought.


Bill

I really dont know anymore what to think, all the seals around all the bolts are the same. The oil its not suppose to get to the bolts when sealed around and always the same spot.

Can't remember off the top of my head if the hole is blind or not?...hasn't got too long a bolt in and its bottoming or running out of thread and shoulder bottoming out....good luck..

Everything is original, same bolt on both side.

If it were me, I would thoroughly degrease the area & allow to dry.
Then start engine & adjust idle to approx 3000 rpm.
With the bike parked watch closely until you see the oil start to appear & that is your source.

Bob

Do you set the torque when cover is set on engine or do you wait with setting the torque till its dry? I feel sick just giving it the thought about doing it again

Problem is it doesnt come oil out standing like that, only when i ride. I know the oil is coming out at the front screw, but why is the magic question..I have stopped counting the times i have done this job.

Set the torgue when cover is set on engine.
Before applying sealant you must remove all traces of oil with something like Brake cleaner or Carb cleaner.
Have you tried to find the leak standing at idle or 3000 rpm?

Yes i set torque when cover was on engine, and like i said i know where the leak is but problem is why its always comes at the same spot. Surfaces have been cleaned very good all times.

If it's not leaking from the Exhaust valve inspection/adjustment cover 0-ring,
then there may be a crack in the cam cover, or cyl head ?

New O-ring, have inspected for crack but cant see anything.

Hi , Before you take cover off again try taking the leaking bolt out blast it and its hole out with brakclean and compressed air smear the bolt in grey silicon . l use a three bond product it works so well. l fit water pumps rocker covers etc with great sucsess ! l dont have the numbers of the tube at home. lf sealing the bolt dosn,t work and you need to try the rocker cover again try a light sand with fine sandpaper and brakcleen grey silicon dont do the bolts up tight (maybe 1 Nm if that ),and the next day talk them down in sec-wince starting from the center of the head outwards and the let it sit for another day. Check your engine breather is not blocked and l hope l am not trying to tell you how to suck eggs :smartass: But I do it for a living and meet lots of clever people that dont have a clue how to fix motors :( . Hope this helps you !
I just striped my XT600e down the 5th gears are gone :thumbdown: I miss it allready :mchappy:Still trying to find some gears

Thanks i will try the bolt trick, and i think it would be to prefer not doing the 10nm at first so thats my next step. And i use 2000 wet paper and silicon remover every time. Breather hose is open. I buy the Permatex ultrablue next time, then i tried them all hehe.

Hope you get your gear fixed soon, always fun riding these bikes:scooter:

Hi ,the stuff I use is threebond 1215 its not cheep but it WORKs and l like to do the job once! ! :thumbup1: I,m riding my GSXR1100 in the meantime and its great in a straight line ,but there is nothing like a XT600 in the tight windy (FUN) roads !!:funmeterno: Good luck

Bought the Ultra blue from Permatex today, and actually it says on the package that you only should tighten the screws til you see bond coming out and then wait for an hour before do the full tightening. Make sense to me, strange no others of the bond i bought said the same. So lets hope this one will be the last, i think its 7 or 8 now...Looking forward to it, its real fun removing all the bond:thumbup1:

Fingers crossed it works this time! I may give mine another go if you are sucessful xtrock.

Bill

Hehe i thought so, yes it not worth all the time and work if its leaking first trip on the road. I let you know excactly what i did if it seals up, if it leaks i recomend a rag around top of engine next years HAHA:D

Done the seal again, after a long trip yesterday it was to much oil around the top so just had to do it. A couple of things that can be useful for others: When you have taken the headcover off, suck up some of the oil underneath the camshaft. Or else when you press camshaft down again oil will come up and maybe out on the new seal. Same is with the screw holes, if there already have been oil down in the holes you need to get it out. Use a screw and just screw it in, oil will come up. Other than that set of alot time for the clean up, it suck bigtime...I rather be out in the night riding in the sun now, well lets hope this was the last time for a while doing the job or i will order a brand new engine from factory:clap:

Same shit different day... Leaking from same spot again so its not the seal brand thats the problem, iam thinking its maybe not straigt and sealent cant fill this. I was just thinking wouldnt it be possible to get the feeler gauge in if the cover is not straight anymore, maybe if i had checked when surface is clean and monted bac without sealent just for checking gap where its leaking?

Update on the problem!

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...w-models-77110

A little update, last days i have been doing about 500km on good and rough roads. I did the seal with epoxy metal and still no leak, so iam happy riding and enjoying my great XT:scooter:

Ok, season ended here and i removed headcover for a better fix. If anyone have experience welding maybe check this out and give some reply if its possible to fix. Is it possible to get the welding device inside here and how about that plug outside, best welding that hole up? If i dont weld, can i use the JB weld inside the cover?


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Not easy to find complete head assembly, and you never know if they have ctack too. In the beginning its impossible to see the crack under the rocker arm.

Plus a person really needs to get the matching head along with it so that also needs to be in good shape. I wouldn't just replace the cover unless the cam bores are checked out for alignment to the old head.

otherwise I can do the work on it and could fix one up, maybe for a trade ? E-start transmission maybe??? just saying.

THanks for the offer, but shipping is to expensive from this country. Iam better off trying to fix this here, iam taking the cover with me and ask some people. If they cant weld it all inside consider the small space it would help just to get some spot weld to stop the crack going further, outside they can do a weld to give it more strength and the rest i fix with JB weld.

Yes i know about whats out there thanks, the thing is that you cant change only cover. And changing cover and head is easy 300Euro + shipping and taxes here, and maybe after a few miles same crack will appear. You never know with this metal after so many years hot/cold/shaking++. If i need to change i will rather spend 1000dollars on a complete new from fabric and it will last 20 new years.

That one has 47,000+ km on it, sure doesn't look like it. The cam journals are near perfect yet, wonder why the head isn't with it. Why the decomp lever? kicker added ?

Yamaha XT 600 3TB Zylinderkopf mit Ventile cylinder head valve | eBay

they came with only kick too.

mine is only 36k and cracked so you never know..thing is that they give them some paint to look nice and impossible to see crack.

I did not know they came as a kicker also. My new learned tidbit for today.

If you have an old head, bolt the cover on it when welding the crack on the outside so it acts like a heat sink. let it fully cool before removing. Shouldn't need any JB weld. I'd drill a small hole at the ends of the crack first if possible.

Its the 600K alot of them in Germany, maybe only sold in europe? Yamaha XT 600 K + Tourzubehör as Enduro/Touring Enduro in Düsseldorf

No i dont have extra head, thanks for the advice.

Could you please post a picture of the cover on the right side of rocker cover, the little round one where the oil hose bolts on?

When I got the bike this was missing, and Im not sure how it looks like :confused1:

Thanks a million :thumbup1:

Cap, Tensioner Case 99999-03125-00

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:thumbup1:

Anyone have a head that is broken anyway, need one for welding on.

Zylinderkopf Yamaha XT600 | eBay

Another happy customer, did they make them so poor for selling new ones...Its a stupid construction all the way and having the camshaft beetween doesnt make things any better. If camshaft was bolted in the head they could sell the headcover seperat for 80dollars.

Its almost identical crack that appears on these, what you think guys a failure in production or something that is potential for all covers?

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Maybe ok to update this one too, mine have been welded. Its possible to weld but not any easy job. The headcover is not straight when unbolten but it seems ok when boltet on, if you can afford it buy new one in the first place it will save you alot of problems. Will se ho this ends when i start riding again, waiting for some nice roads with snow and cold weather.

That one said it had a bent frame from an accident, so the question is, did it crack from the bent frame or was it cracked already. Makes me still wonder if the frame flexing and then cracking of just from vibs in the motor, or the pinching from the ears being forced together. Be a cheap head, just need to fix the cover or find an older cover that happens to line up. strange the older covers don't crack, just the new style but frame has changed along with it, I'll have to see if mine cracks in the old frame , I used that mount on it.

Ok, but still mine have original engine and no sign of abuse when i bought bike with low mileage. I have done normal riding no big jumps, never overtighten the bolt. Its strange crack is almost identical on these, maybe came from same poor production line with low quality alu...

Been out riding, seems ok so far:thumbup1:


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Fingers crossed youve sorted it xtrock! :thumbup1:

Bill

Yep :thumbup1: ,


Snapped a pic when I got home today, 9F !
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Cool:thumbup1: See you got snow, is bike running ok?

It appears summer is over for both of us. She's running great . Smashed my clutch cover on a rock practicing on the ice so I had to use my spare but didn't have it coated so doesn't match the all black motor. I hate winter.

Damn thats no fun..Good you have spares, summer is for sure best:Beach: I wouldnt buy this engine... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIZsuEyEdtg

This is nice made: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNc0...s_Aowg&index=8

That first one explains some stuff I've seen on a few motors when taking apart.
Using a screwdriver to pry under the cam in an attempt to turn the thing so they can get at the second chain gear bolt:eek3: I think it was even in the journal that he was prying from.