My Wilburs had a remote resivoir with high/low speed dampening. Honestly, i feel that this option is what seperates an average to good ride with lots of on/off road transition, to a phenomenal ride! I wish my Cogent shock had this level of tuneability. As i said, i rate the Wilburs at the top of the list, and the Cogent a close second. Still, the service problem left a bad taste in my mouth. You see, the parts are, like most German products, very specific, high quality and therefor expensive. This is not the shock you want to blow it's seals in Bolivia, but then again, which one is?
BTW, i recoment fitting a sock to the shock to protect the seals from dirt. As long as the piston is kept clean, there is no reason a high quality shock should blow its seals. The culprit with my shock was without a doubt dirt and sand, the rebound dampening adjuster was full of junk!

Mr Ron,

Thanks again for your valuable info. It's all going in the memory vault.

I was talking with the Penske guys and one of their comments that stood out was how simple the design was. They said any susp. tech could take it apart and restore with simple tools. Hmm... RTW and in the bush simple is good! Something to consider at least. I own a german car. So I am familiar with their unique engineered solutions to problems!

The sock you recommend goes around the spring/damper assembly? or the remote resivoir? Do wilbus sell these?

The stock Yamaha has a rubber boot covering the swingarm/lower attachment point. I hope to incorporate this onto the new assembly. The rebound adjuster that was full of dirt on your bike was at the bottom of the main shock assembly...correct?

Cheers,

Pawlie

I think they call it shock sleeve or shock glove...

and yes, it is a great item to have to protect your shock...
as long as it covers all the spring part and you can zip tie them on the main parts top and bottom of the shock it's good to go! ;)


Vando :cool4:

I take issue with accusing Klaus of selling you something that's not up to the job. I don't think Klaus would put a customer in a sticky situation to sell product. To claim that is poor taste.

And what makes you think a shock sleeve won't create heat issues that you claim to be a susceptibility of shocks with small reservoirs like YSS??

Isn't the seal on the shaft there to mitigate the dirt/grit issues while providing air cooling to the shock's oil to help avoid distorting/warping the seal that contacts within the chamber? Which then creates damping issues when the oil leaks out?

Paulie,
It's clear you have as much or more experience / knowledge of suspension as anyone here .... probably more. I doubt you'll find many long term Wilbur's users here on HUBB.

Lots of Vstrom riders bought Wilbur's shocks, in fact two DL650 riding friends have them on their bikes. But to hear more specific feedback I'd get on to some Vstrom Specific forums/boards and ask for feedback. A few BMW GS riders have bought Wilbur's as well but far more with the Vstrom group, I believe.

From you're description of what you need I think you need to talk to the best:

Precision Concepts
Precision Concepts Racing for all your dirtbike suspension needs. (951) 697-8488
619 / 593-7473

Several friends have had their XR650R's stock suspension re-sprung and re-valved by Precision and were thrilled with the results. I've ridden these bikes in the desert and in Baja. SO much better than stock. Magic carpet ride.

BTW, PC work for Factory Team Honda ... and just about everyone else. They are dominant in off road racing suspension. No one else really comes close. These shocks seem to last, can take a pounding for years.
Not as cost effective as Cogent, but these guys are the best. A good friend/racer/Honda/Yam dealer owner is Team Honda Off Road Racing manager, has worked with PC for years. All good. Here they are last week at the San Felipe 250. They did pretty good.

San Felipe 250 Race

Eddie,
I'll try to address your concerns quickly then lets just move on. Not interested in an internet battle, just shocks.
.........Huh??

Keep in mind you asked for my story.

I stated the facts as they played out and stand by them. I then I tried to clarify some of your concerns. If that offends you then I have nothing left to say. Except.

I'm disappointed you snipped my bit about the hotdog thrown down the hallway...that's good material.....Maybe not:eek3:....It really did look like that.

Safe riding.
Pawlie

Wilbers
 

http://yhelteljel.ee/wp-content/uplo...2/img_2386.jpg
Our blown up Wilbers shomewhere in Argentinian Patagonia, even made my wife mad

Anyways, I put Wilbers on our R1100GS for RTW journey based on good stories around and recommendations on the internet about how good they are with excellent warranty and stuff. I had it set up for my requirements with harder spring directly from Wilbers Germany. ...and, ours blew up after just 9000 km in South-America.

After that it started to blew up after every 500-1000 km or so. I repaired it some 5 times, spent silly amounts of money and I was stuck for a MONTH in Buenos Aires because of Wilbers "excellent" warranty is useless in S-America, I kept returning to BA because it kept breaking down every time I left. Got tired of repairing and spending crazy amounts of money on it (count only hotel prices in BA for a month!), basically I was dying of frustruation with Wilbers. I did a lot of homework and bought Öhlins, that also has had a fair share of its problems on the rest of our journey.

Öhlins design is vastly better than that of Wilbers, with better main seal material (it took some over 10 years for Öhlins to figure the ideal rubber mixture out - most of others still haven't got it right) and it has a decent main seal cooling with a cap that has large holes placed at 120 degrees. Main causing problem with Wilber's blowing was not enough cooling - cap was fully closed on our Wilbers body (bad idea by Wilbers engineers!). Rod coating was one of the worst I've ever seen - polished spots appeared on the rod already after some 5000-10000 km of riding. Put those factors into equations with overheated shock riding on hard terrain - mix it with low quality main seal rubber mixture that gets soft = blown leaking shock.

Wilbers' R&D department have a lot of work in their hands IMHO to build a true-offroad-influenced-RTW capable shock. They're far from achieving the goal now IMHO. The only good point I see on Wilbers is the reasonably affordable price that I stupidly took as the bait and in the end paid the money worth of 4-5 brand new Wilbers shocks for my mistake!

Öhlins: no polished spots on the rod's coating after some over 70 000 km of riding now on our RTW journey. Valving (dampening/rebound characteristics) is noticeably better than Wilbers' - although I got our Öhlins re-valved by Stig Pettersen on our US leg, who's known to make magic out of Öhlins shocks.

Problems: through my practice with shocks in fact I find it's very hard to kill Öhlins shock to make it leak, even when the shock smokes (yes, I've made the shock so hot that it smokes! riding in South-Bolivian technical trails 2up), but it's fairly easy to bend the main body with bottom-outs, since Öhlins switched their shocks to aluminium body lately, that through hard bottom outs riding offroad starts to bend from the bottom part of the shock's main body. It usually means nothing, since the piston works much higher than the bottom bending part, but I reckon in time it can bend enough to start affecting the seal's properties. To put things into perspective Wilbers' design is actually even worse, since Wilbers' main body consists of two parts - a tube and a cap that's glued on - with bottom outs you can crack the glue and it can leak from the main body's upper part instead, and some people have reported it. Öhlins' hydraulic preloader just suck big time! I don't know what the Swedish designer had smoked when designing this fancy looking bit, but it's not even close to deserving that world-famous "Ö" logo on it. It cannot take any beating at all when you've added some preload with stronger spring. It uses regular stupid o-ring seal and it just leaks empty the first time you hit the hard offroad. Even Stig said it's useless under harder-springed shocks.

If ONLY Öhlins could make stainless steel body shock (like they did in the old times) with redesigned hydraulic preloader, it'd make a bomb proof reliable (and actually, from valving perspective - working!) shock for serious RTW traveller who likes to do a lot of offroad with fully loaded bike.

Anyways, sorry for the longish rant guys, but I've had silly bad experiences with aftermarket shocks, especially with Wilbers. Hopefully it'll give you a lesson. You can partly blame me, since I do take my overloaded GS offroad, 2-up, to places where probably most of 2-up travellers wouldn't go, but the hype the aftermarket shocks get about their customizing for hard conditions etc just doesn't hold up. Well OK, Öhlins now finally works for me, but as I said, it has its own problems and with its design flaws like the hydraulic preloader part it's certainly not worth the money you pay for them - like on most aftermarket shocks that are made in western world (including Japanese shocks). Maybe, just maybe, the new YSS will be the answer. Even if they blow up, they don't cost you a fortune to buy them.

If anyone's wondering, I did some research on WP's, Technoflex (looks too similar to Wilbers?), Hyperpro, Elka and some others that could be made to fit my bike. Some were quite promising, but excluding the WP, the apparent R&D time they've had isn't much so I didn't risk with them. I'd really like to try WP in the future, since they seem to have a lot of experience on offroad part (whereas Öhlins seems to be focusing more on-road bikes, ditto Wilbers).

That said I think you'll do fine with ANY kind of shock if you mostly stick to smooth roads and very carefully-slowly ride offroad. But if you really enjoy riding hard offroad with a fully loaded bike, then you must really do your homework.

Hope this helps, Margus

Micky D,

Thanks for the suggestion of precision concepts. I'll consider them but I find a lot of the race type shops want nothing to do with old tech bikes like an xt.

I want to keep the discussion here because HU is the centre of the XT universe! Actually, with the xt being far more popular in europe, Wilbers being a european brand, and lots of european riders at this site. I recon it's a good fit for solid info.

I find most opinions on HU are well thought out, honest and founded on lots of time spent in the saddle.

So people keep the Wilbers opinions flowing.

thanks,
Pawlie

Margus,

Thanks for your hard won info. My bike was born to be abused offroad and will never lead a "road only" lifestyle. Perhaps it's time to reconsider the Wilbers option......

I checked with an Ohllins retailer and although there used to be a listing for XT's of this vintage. It is long since defunct. He phoned someone at HQ and reported no can do....

I think I'll dig around a bit more and see if i can uncover any Ohllins leads. At one time Ohllins came stock on some european model XT's...hard to believe. I'm certain the worldwide network of Ohllins dealers are the most prolific for RTW type servicing needs. Servicing being an inportant factor, your story made abundantly clear.

Thanks again for posting you experiences.

Cheers,
Pawlie

They are only dealing with your shock, not your bike!:mchappy: I'm assuming your stock XT shock is either a Showa or a KYB? I would think PC can deal with both. Send it in, tell them what you want (they actually listen) they do the rest. It will out perform a Wilbur's shock easily and out last it as well I should think doing the riding you describe.

Or perhaps they can source a modern KYB or Showa to fit your bike? I don't know your experience with off road riding but in your first post you mentioned this bike was to be ridden Hard off road and loaded up heavy.

My guess is you will never come close to giving your suspension the kind of workout Baja racers do. The basic KYB or Showa units are very good even in stock form but with re-valving, upgrading and springing to suit your load they should be great. You shouldn't have a problem over the long haul.

Margus's post was pretty scary. That set up he is running would be a test for any shock and I am not surprised the Wilbur's failed. As I mentioned in my first post, I had heard of many Vstrom riders using Wilburs and had heard of a few blown ones. But not many put them through what Margus did. Margus has to be carrying over 1000 lbs. all up, including his passenger and all the luggage. Quite a load for riding rough terrain. Funny about the smoking shock! :helpsmilie: Our shocks would often get too hot to touch after some hard charging. Funny, I've never had a KYB or Showa leak. Damping goes away after a few years, but they rarely leak.

Good luck and hope you can get your XT working good. What year is it anyway? Yamaha stopped importing them to the US in 1990! :frown:

Hi Micky D,

A lot of good info in your last post. That story(Margus) of the smoking shock was scary indeed!

The xt is a 1986. The problems started when a transplanted front end from a modern machine was grafted on the bike. All of a sudden the rear started showing it's age and technology gap. The front felt like a dream ride.

Although not at race pace, this bike has and will continue to see lots of SF woops and has spent 1000's of km on Baja race routes(it gets worked). I'm not expecting miracles, just want to get the rear in the same ballpark as the front= safer+more smiles.

I've had the unit apart to change the oil and monkey around a bit. I dont recall any brand markings but I'll check again.

A couple of things are holding me back from sending my stock unit for modification.
I would like to keep the stock one as a backup unit in case brandXXXX aftermarket fails(it works, but it works like the 24yrold shock it is.)

I also would like the facility to adjust ride height. Currently the bike is at stock ride height and non adjustable. Most of the new aftermarket shocks are adjustable + or - a few mm. The new front end on the bike makes this a valuable tuning bonus.


I will seriously consider PC and other shops of this type as you suggest.
Thanks for your input.

Still interested in hearing from folks with Wilbers experience good or bad!

Pawlie

Slightly off target - but I got hold of an Ohlins shox for my TTR600RE - which due to the Electric start comes with a cheaper Showa. The Ohlins (from an earlier kickstart TTR600) is a lot smoother and makes for a much better ride. The bike height has increased by a good 50mm though!!!!

Yes - Ohlins is expensive, but they aren't used but loads of top spec racer for nothing!

I have an Ohlins on my DR650 and love it! BTW, your Ohlins should be "Ride Height Adjustable", mine is and it is 10 years old. So you can lower it easily if you know where the adjustment is.

BTW, in the US not one factory off road race team use Ohlin shocks. In Europe you may find a more, but we have twenty times more racing compared to Europe. You will find all kinds of dirt bike racing here:
Indoor moto cross/Super Cross and Super Moto
Indoor Arena Cross Series (nationwide)
AMA Outdoor motocross series (nationwide)
AMA Enduro series (nationwide)
AMA GNCC series (nationwide)
AMA Desert race series (there are several) (California and Nevada)
Baja races (two or three a year)
Various other lesser known series and one time events (at least 50 nationwide)
Hundreds of local, privately owned MX tracks nationwide running races every weekend (no series, no AMA)

About 80% of the bikes used here are Japanese bikes. ALL Japanese bikes use either Showa or KYB, and most racers stay with those shocks but may have them modified by companies like Precision Concepts or about 100 others in the suspension business. Motocross is huge business. Hundreds of Mom & Pop tracks around the country.

20% of the bikes left are mostly KTM (a few husky's, Husabergs) KTM use WP shocks (KTM own WP) Husky were using Sachs or Marzocchi shocks, and now have gone to Showa. (Honda own Showa) (Yamaha used to own part of Ohlins but Ohlins bought it back. No more Yamaha ... Yamaha use KYB and more and more Soqi. Ever heard of Soqi? They are on about half of all Yamahas made today. They first came on the scene in 2003. Not sure where they are made .... probably China)

So, Ohlins are not involved much here in Off Road. You see them more in Road Racing but Penske are currently very popular here in local AMA racing in the US. In MotoGP and World Super (WSB) bike Ohlins rule.

IMHO, Ohlins are the best in the world for road race but are not really pursuing off road that much these days. Read up on their new electronically controlled suspension. Simply, utterly amazing!

(see new BMW SS1000 and Ducati's new 1200 Multistrada)

I believe YAMAHA own OHLINS ????

They used to own a large percentage of Ohlins, but not 100%. It was Yamaha money that funded a lot of big bucks Ohlins R&D like Hydraulic two wheel drive systems.

Ever heard of David Fretigne? See his Dakar history with Yamaha.

I recently read an interview with the head guy at Ohlins and he talked a bit about why they bought back Yamaha's interest in their company. Can't recall all the reasons.

Ever notice Honda NEVER, EVER used Ohlins suspension when Yamaha was involved. Now, Honda is using Ohlins and doing much better.