Xt 600 tenere wont start
 

Hy there all.

So I sold my xt600e a couple weeks ago, and now I found an older xt 600z tenere, supposed to be 1989, not sure. It has no documents...

It was cheap, and I got an extra engine with broken gearbox, to go :)

The seller said it ran last year, but he was messing something with the electrics. Anyway it doesnt start. There are 5 wires coming from stator/pickup coil, the red and brown are for cdi power, but I am not sure how to connect the other 3, there are no connectors either on the cdi or the wires from stator, everything is cut off and then just twisted together. I get the spark, but Im not sure if the timing of the spark is correct, the engine sometimes pops from the exhaust, but doesnt start.

It has an e-start, and later added kick start.

Hi
Download xt 's service manual (pinned at the top of this section) and find the page where wiring diagram is shown and explained.
If there's any big difference between xt 's and tenere's electronics, I suppose it will be easy to identify.
Otherwise, that manual should help. Sorry can't tell exact page, posting from my nav device, on the way

Thanks, I already have an xt600E manual, but the electrics are not the same. Im still strugling to get any info on the specs for testing the stator, ignition coil, pickup coil, cdi. Im also not sure if the compression is within the limits, I have a gauge, but I dont have the 12mm coupling to bolt in to the spark plug thread. But my friend has a 2kf xt, and kicking it is almoast identical. I poured some gasoline down into the barrel, put the spark plug back in and kicked it, but nothing happens, not even a pop. I think the spark is too week, how to tell if spark is good???

Curious about a few things:

1. Can you get an engine/vin nr? Can possibly trace the year with that.
2. What exactly are you looking for from the Tenere manual - I have one for mine. but not sure what the last year is- I'll need to go scratch for it in the shed
3. When you say electric start, but kick starter added- do you mean it was originally e-start and converted afterwards? The 86 model had both e-start and kickstarter- so could the motor be off an 86?

Happy to try and assist, just need a place to start.

Not sure, could be 86, I will post vin nr. tomorrow.

I got the manual, and all the electrics chek out fine, according to the manual, but I couldnt find out wich wires from pickup coil connect to the cdi, as they are not same collors and have no connectors. I searched through google, but some say different than the others :thumbdown:

I took apart the carb once again, to clean it good. I will know more when I compare some parts from a friends bike, although he has an 88xt600, but should be very similar.

Btw, I have an extra engine, with broken gearbox and a good top end for sale. But there are some parts missing.

No rush form my side... If you're not in a rush, I'll have a look at my 86 on the weekend and take some photos if that will help.

Unfortunately, the bike is at the back fo the shed and I need to get everything out before I'd be able to get to it and the light is not that good in there (for pictures)

No problem, really appreciate your help though :)

I will be working on the bike again on weekend i guess, too busy at work...

But any other thoughts would be very much appreciated.

Btw, how come she's at the back of the shed? You should be out there riding it. Dont know where you are from, but we got 30+ degrees here in Slovenia ;)

LOL - no, she's a project bike. My 1st 'adventure' bike was an 86, so they have a soft spot for me. That specific bike is still running and now has well over 200kkm on it.

This bike belonged to a mate (and was his 1st adventure bike). When he wanted to get rid of it, it came here out of nostalgia. She's running, but not what I want it to look like etc. When I get around to it... Maybe a side-car conversion...

In the mean time, I'm enjoying my new AT :innocent:

Now I'm confused as well!!! LOL, I looked at the wiring diagram in my manual, and none of the colours match up either. Can you please photograph what you are looking for, and I'll go strip down and do the same.

http://i692.photobucket.com/albums/v...psoqrcongn.jpg

http://i692.photobucket.com/albums/v...pscbjvnkjn.jpg

http://i692.photobucket.com/albums/v...psxrmxirf3.jpg


Sad part on my side- chucked some fuel in the beast and she did not start either. Motor turned over bad very 'badly'- sounds like something is wrong in the engine so I'll have to open her up- maybe even some rust in the sleeves :(

These bikes take a certain amount of volts for the ignition to allow spark plus the motor needs to spin over fast enough . A weak battery may seem fine but when cranking the motor over it goes below the cutoff voltage (11.2V IIRC) so they won't spark, hence start. Something to check first.

I will take some photos today and post them here. Still have to clean and reassemble the carbs tho.

True, but when/if you use the kick-starter it should not have an effect. I used my bike with a blown alternator coil and dead battery for a few weeks and thousands of kms with just the kickstarter.

So I got the carbs cleaned reeeeeeal good.

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k1...pslbwkuynd.jpg

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k1...psyteyzsap.jpg

Bolted everything back to the bike, bypassed the fuel pump just in case and then crancked it a few minutes. Nothing! So I took out the spark plug and it was bone dry:thumbdown:

I get fuel inside the carb, but I am still missing something.

I probably done at least 50 bike and car engines, but this one giving me the hardest time ever:censored::censored::censored:

One more thing, I took the air filter off, but i guess this shouldnt be a problem right?

With the petcock on crack open the bowl drain and verify the carb is getting fuel for starters . If fuel pours out then you'll have to make sure you put the correct jets in and all parts that go with them. Did you blow through all the passages to verify open ? Possible whatever had been in one passage has dislodged and now fully plugged . It has taken me several "cleanings on 1 or 2 of these carbs because the passages are so hard to get completely clean . The pilot circuit is the worst one for that . Chemicals , soaking , and blowing from both ends and repeat over and over is what it can take. Without blasting of air it probably won't clear up.

If this is one of the E-start bikes that has a TCI it requires the battery power to run, stator can be shot but it'll run till the battery voltage drops to 11.2V ,using the kicker won't start it because they don't have an ignition side on the stator, but if it's one of the older CDI bikes it can run without a battery technically because it runs off the stator(unless it's shot) so then low voltage doesn't matter and it'll start the same with the kicker, they have an ignition side on the stator for running.


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I think I just got my answer.

No compression, reads about 75psi.

Engine will be off the bike and inspected in few hours.

Have you checked to see if you have the correct timing? You can do this by connecting the battery, turning the engine by hand with a spark plug 'outside' the engine and verifying it against the timing marks on the flywheel.

I thought about something else - I had the flywheel shift once when the key sheared of. It wasn't much, but it was enough to stop the engine completely. So you can also check whether indicated TDC on the flywheel is actually TDC

And I assume you have checked if there is spark

Spark is there, not the brightest, but still.

I will check for timing once again, when I put everything back.

I pulled off the top end, valves look ok and they seal good enough, I also poured about 1dl of gasoline and oil mix inside the barrel, and it took about half an hour to drain pass the rings...

If a motor has been flooded bad the oil is washed off the walls and compression will show low . I squirt a bunch of oil down the sparkplug hole and slowly turn the motor over a bunch to cover everything good , then spin it over fast to blow the extra oil out and then recheck compression . If it goes way up chances are that all that was wrong , if it only goes up 20-25 psi maybe then it got something leaking badly .

If your head is off yet turn it upside down and fill the chamber with gas , good sealing valves will hold it ,common to have a slow seep in one or 2 but any running flow is bad.

After a second look, it was obvious that valves do not seal, especially the intake pair, so I am off to porting and polishing, and buy some new gaskets.

What do you think, OEM or some quality aftermarket?

You won't go wrong with oem gaskets , I use a majority of them . I have used Athena and Cometic aftermarket sets with good results as well. Stay away from the off brand sets you get on Ebay mostly.


The exhaust valves are usually the ones that get beat the worst , if your intakes are bad take a look at your air filter , poor filtration or dirt getting in downstream of the filter is what kills intake valves.

I bought a head gasket from the local yamaha dealer. It cost me £50 ! I thought there had been a mistake and they had ordered me a full gasket set, but no.....that was for just the head gasket alone. I take some comfort that it fitted well and never leaked.

Yeah, OEM parts here, are also very expensive. Will ask them anyway tho...

Thanks for the tip about valves :thumbup1:

Always worth keeping an eye on ebay (if youve got the time to wait). I bought a nos head gasket because it was really cheap less than ten pounds.A genuine item to have in readiness if needed. Other genuine gaskets pop up often as well.

I'm a bit of a tight-arse and don't like to spend money on things I think are overpriced.

As a result, I end up making my own gaskets most of the time -

• role of vellumoid is only about $5.
• rubber gaskets- you can superglue an extra o-ring onto the top if they become too compacted. Take large o-ring of about 1.5mm diameter, cut it and snake it around
• metal gaskets - two to three layers of spray-paint and they get a very good seal again.
• valve stem seals - take the old down to the spare shop and just ask them to match it up with what they have. Costs a few cents each

Cheap gaskets tend to harden up very quickly and then crack, and/or leak.

Forget everything I wrote so far... Squily was right! Lucy for me the timing was of for at least 80 degrees, otherwise I would miss this for sure doh

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/923/m8bcrG.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/922/0RDeh5.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/922/JlIRGN.jpg

Oh, and thanks again to a friend "Seba", who lended me the magneto removal tool bier

I will be taking off the clutch cover, to replace the gaskets. Is there any thing I should be carefull about? I am talking about the kick start and decompression cable, if someone could explain taking off and re-installing the cover, so I dont get any springs or other parts flying all over the garage ;)

There is the nut you take off for the decomp cable and it's spring , just look it over good before taking the nut off to see how it goes back together , take a picture if needed. Take the kick lever off the shaft and while pulling the cover off try to push in on the kicker shaft so it doesn't want to come with the cover . Not much on these to worry about .

There are 2 lineup dowels and I usually put in a new anti-drain valve and crankshaft seal when one of my covers are off , cheap to do and it's good to have them working properly .#22, 23 &24 , http://www.partzilla.com/parts/searc...UMP/parts.html

crank seal #25 http://www.partzilla.com/parts/searc...R+1/parts.html

The kicker shaft and decomp shaft seal is also good to replace with the cover off ,if you don't know when was the last time they were replaced . #16 & #28 http://www.partzilla.com/parts/searc...TER/parts.html

Re-installing the cover the decomp lever gets flipped to one side but I can't remember offhand which way ,When you look at it it's fairly self explanatory.

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Thanks jjrider, I already took it apart, and like you said, nothing special in there...

I am still waiting for gaskets and some other parts to arrive, so I guess I will be working on the bike after the vacation wich I start this friday, and than we are off to Brno GP :mchappy:

If anyone from the hubb is going, we can meet for a beer or twobeer

Just a short question. Will an Aprilia pegaso 650 Mikuni double carb, fit on xt600?

Got it for free, so was thinking of swaping. If not, then the carb is for sale ;)

Dont think so, the xtz660 is also slightly different (different bore in one of the carbs) as I recall... But not totally sure.

The only dual carb setups that I've found to fit (with mods) the XT600 are the Raptor 660's (barely fit and need to cobble air intakes) and the Kawasaki Ninja 250's, which are a good option. For fuel injection the Ninja 300 dual throttle bodies fit nicely but of course there's the wiring and sensors stuff needed to be added.

.

Ok, thanks.

I just did a search on those carbs and they look awfully similar to the Raptor carbs , dual BSR Mikuni's . They are are 31 mm so they may fit better than the Raptors which are 33mm and don't fit very good in the boots bolted to the engine because they are bigger than the originals , fitment would be depending on the width between the 2 for fitting the ports on the XT.

If you can measure the outside diameters of the "snouts" and the distance between the 2 carbs , even outside to outside of the snouts that go into the engine side boots . You may have found another carb option . It looks like there's plenty of material there to turn the od of those snouts to fit perfect , could even turn them a little offset to fit the head port spacing better if needed. They will be a little better than the stock ones with more air flow and actual tuning options , won't be a huge performance gain but some . I see they will fit the frame much better than the Raptor carbs because they don't have the vacuum ports for the slide diaphragms coming out the back up top like the 660's which actually runs right into the bikes frame gusset and requires cutting the frame plus some modding to the vacuum ports to make a 90deg corner right there.

The worst part with them that is the same as the Raptors carbs is the airbox to carb boots . The stock may not fit (again need to get this dia to know), so a person would need to find some hoses to go around the shock and curve back in to the airbox then somehow mount with an adapter , but could easily be machined . The hose is the hard part to fit and other use pod filter on the Raptor carbs because of this.

.

Due to lack of time, the project is getting along very slowly...

Had to split the cases, change out some bearings an oil seals, but the cases are going back together today, so hopefully it finally starts this week :funmeteryes:

So, the bike is all back together an starts and runs like it should. No more oil leaks, and the clutch and gearbox work great.

thanks for all the input :clap:

ps: the bike is for sale for 600€