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XT600z Valve lifter
1 Attachment(s)
Hi all, have finally managed to get a spark at the plug when kicking it over with the plug out, after having the stator rewound and a replacement CDI unit. However trying to start on the button doesn't produce a spark, not turning over quick enough I presume, battery and starter motor seem ok. I would like to re-install the valve lifter as it's a pig to kick over so haven't actually had it started yet. All I have is the part in the rocker cover to accept a cable. if it is correct [see image]. When I pull it backwards by hand [anticlockwise] it appears to be lifting a spring. I just need to know how to set the cable and attachments to get it working. I have searched the manual without success. This bike is taking some time as my wife is ill and awaiting surgery so I don't have a lot of spare time to sort it. All help much appreciated as always.
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That's brilliant, thank you so much. It doesn't look like it has been used for years, the cable and cam cover bracket is missing and the hole through which the cable needs to go near the kick start has been plugged up. I would never have found that. I assumed it would have been the old type handlebar lever decompressor. All I need now are the bits. Thanks again. http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...ps6b82c3b1.jpg |
Ask here and the ADV forum, someone may have what you need.
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Does anyone have the correct cable and top bracket I can buy?.
Cheers |
Here is a part number for my '86 XT600 on Partzilla.com - OEM Powersports Parts from Honda, Kawasaki Polaris, Suzuki and Yamaha at discounts up to 80% off MSRP
33 34L-12292-00-00 CABLE, DCOMP $34.49 $22.89 The bracket is no longer available, however, you could "roll your own" It is just a piece of flat metal with a mounting hole to attach to the head and a roll around the cable. Wouldn't be too hard to make if no one has a spare. I only have two and both are in use. Steve |
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John |
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Cheers |
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Just as a matter of interest, has anyone else had trouble starting the XT600 on the button. Even with the plug out it only turns over around twice a second at best, have checked the starter motor, had jump leads from another battery, just in case. Just not turning over quick enough to generate a spark. Or am I missing something.:confused1:
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Didn't paint it, just cleaned. I tried jump leads, but direct to the battery terminals, I will try your suggestion tomorrow. Don't mind buying a new battery if that's at fault, just seems to hold it's power and charges ok. |
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Fitted new high CCA battery today, no difference.:confused1:
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Sounds like your starter clutch is slipping and your not getting it up to speed to get it started
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I have seen starters, not bike starters, that had copper bits filling in the space between the commutator sections. New brushes, under cutting the insulation between and spinning the commutator in fine sand paper cleaned it all up. New bearings are good too, if you have them.
The starters that were clogged as above would just barely spin the engine if at all and take lots of power doing it. Obviously the commutators were shorting out and adjacent sections fighting each other. Good kit above... |
Thanks guys for that, if I had any doubts about the brushes I would have replaced them, the com was ok.but I cleaned it up, the mica was undercut ok. I maybe should have checked the windings. I am waiting for a decompressor cable and bracket coming so I can get it started, I'll see what it's like when it's been run. Maybe the motor off again and get it checked out professionally.
Thanks again. |
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Yeah, I'd think they would fit all models.
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Skip fodder
I am at a stage now where I am ready to bin this bike, fitted the decompression cable still can't get it to start. Good spark, good compression, carb stripped & cleaned, fuel to the plug ok [as far as I can tell]. I have put the starter motor/clutch on hold until I get it running ok. Just at a loss where to go next. Don't have too much time to waste with wife ill. Never had a bike beat me in 50+years.
Cheers. I seem unable to open/read message in PM for some reason. |
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My own experience in dealing with my XT is the fuel/air must be pretty close or they get very difficult to start. Even feeding throttle during the kicking process mess's up things. I've resorted to full throttle kicking to clear it out, then sitting and waiting too.
Did you check you intake carb to head boots for leakage. They get hard as a rock and leak air. I have only rebuilt the older 80s carbs so cannot speak more than generally. Usually there is a brass emulsion tube under the main jet that can be removed. If so, check to see that none of the side holes are plugged. If they are, then your mixture will be rich. Verify every single passage is clear, use a tiny wire if necessary to probe the passages. Check the float level with fuel and a clear tube from the bottom drain up the side of the carb. Should be about 6mm below the flange of the float bowl, verify this setting for your carb type. |
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I know this is unlikely but could the cam chain have jumped a cog. Exhaust every possibility. Is your spark a good strong spark or kind of spindly?
I looked back on this thread and see you got the stator re-wound and a replacement CDI. Was it a new unit or used or aftermarket CDI. Is it the CDI with all the pig tails on it or the newer TCI with the plugs built-in? The reason I ask is my 86 would start after many kicks, the spark was not too strong. IT ran but not the best and backfired plus it had numerous oil leaks. I put it in the shed last winter and started thru it replacing seals, removing the rockerbox and resealing, setting valves, cleaning carbs. the whole gamut. When I pulled it out to start it, no spark at all, my spare 84 xt's cdi was dead too so I tested everything I could to verify my stator and trigger coils were outputting, they were and the ohm readings were pretty close. I ordered 2 replacement CDI from Hyperpak in New Zealand and forever later I finally got them, plugged one in and I had a good healthy spark. With just a few kicks it started and ran better than it did in a long time. I took the other CDI just temp plugged it in 84 bike and it had good spark too. So I say all this to show that the CDI's can go dead or almost dead just sitting around. I think the components go bad, capacitors dry out etc. |
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He mentioned a new Hyperpak above and getting hot spark. Can't the cam timing be checked thru the inspection holes without disassembly? The fact he got a kickback would seem the timing is off a bit. Maybe just a fueling issue as he stated...This will be interesting to see how it plays out.
You are not alone, wish were local neighbors I'd be there. Steve |
Steve, I did check as best I could that the timing was ok noting that all valves were closed at TDC when I did the tappets.
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Success................. or as I thought. Took the carb of yet again and lifted the float level a little more, after that it seemed to attempt to start, then it did. Got it up to running temperature, adjusted to idle well, revved well, sorted, not on your nellie. Tried again afte a few minutes, back to square 1, nothing. Took the plug out, really badly sooted up. Just wondering if I lifted the float level just a little too much, or would that stop it starting again. Cleaned the plug, not an attemp to fire. At least the timing can be discounted, never had such sensitive carb. problems.
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I am looking in my OEM Yamaha 1986 XT600 manual carb section. The fuel level should be 7mm +-1mm BELOW the float bowl mating surface. A rough measurement is carb upside down, float attached, tilt carb so float tang is just touching but not depressing the float needle valve spring. With the gasket removed it should measure 26mm +- 1mm. This gets it in the ballpark but must be checked using the fuel method.
I've found it easier to have the carb in hand, fuel supply attached, allow to fill and stop, then gently jiggle the clear tube so the fuel will settle, it tries to stick due to surface tension. If you tilt the carb and allow more fuel to flow in and raise too high, it will not flow back so you need to drain some out and allow to fill again. It is kind of a juggling act and takes a knack. If you do the fill and jiggle a few times you will get the hang of it and if you get repeatable measurements and be assured it is correct. The level should not be a make it or break it if close. If your carbs are like mine, early 80's to 89 or so, not sure when it changed then you will also have a diaphram on the left carb on the side of the body. That is the anti-backfire control or coasting enrichner. The way it works is if you close the throttle quickly at high rpm, the high vacuum at the head where the secondary carb is attached is piped over to the primary carb and controls the diaphram. This diaphram if engaged it shuts off air to the pilot jet causing a rich mixture, this rich mixture going into the hot exhaust pipe is harder to ignite so NO backfire. Attached is a diagram showing the pathways. If you have a plugged line to the pilot jet for the air it needs, you will be rich. Just a possibility. http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/...arbdiagram.jpg To troubleshoot, notice the enrichner Air Jet. If the diaphram is NOT engaged due to high vacuum then the air is routed to the pilot jet, if engaged or line plugged no air to the pilot jet and it is rich all the time. I use brake clean or some other clear fluid from a pressurized can to check passages, you can see the fluid come out, where is hard to see air coming out. If this passage is clear, fluid should flow all the way through. You can remove the pilot jet to allow a larger flow, then check it with pilot jet installed. I hope this helps. Steve |
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An easier way is to unplug the black wire with white stripe from the CDI, this takes all the kill functions out of the picture, bar switch and ignition both put a ground on this wire to kill the engine. Once you do this, you will have to put in gear and clutch it to kill it....
Of course you have to pull the seat and tank to do it. We are just suggesting the easy to overlook stuff. When you are in the middle of it and frustrated, it is difficult. Some time you have to walk away for a while, clear your head. I think you are close, at least it started and ran fairly well, still maybe rich. What about the choke, is the end of it still sealing well. If it is leaking, you may be rich from that. What do you think Mezo? Steve |
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Back to the drawing board. Tried to start it this morning, difficult to get regular compression and a couple of backfires through the carb. Can't see a way in the manual for checking accurately the timing on this without taking the cam cover off, is there a way??, thinking now there could also be a valve issue. Starting to run around like a headless chicken, don't suppose a fault developed in the CDI unit?.
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Ok, bit the bullet and took the cam cover off, the timing was out a little approx. a tooth as Steve suggested, impossible to line the horizontal lines on the camwheel when the mark on the flywheel is exactly on the cover mark, probably due to chain and sprocket wear. Can't see how it ran so well with this being out, will it be ok as near as I can get it??, don't want to strip further and fit new chain/wheels etc.
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Are you familiar with kicktart bikes, they can be a real &/%%* to start without the right technique....
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I have not had mine apart so cannot speak as to how close to the marks it needs to be.
I am sure someone will be able to answer you. Glad you found something amiss. Hopefully, it will start and run better now. Steve |
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There's some info on cam timing mark alignment on this thread
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...bleshoot-74008 cheers Bob |
Ok, got it all back together now, still a fuel problem, far too much getting into the cylinder, when you turn the engine over with the plug out there is a very dense mist spraying out, no chance of combusting just choking the plug. Float level is ok, around 8mm below,?????, could it be the float valve not shutting the pressure from the pump as there is loads of fuel pressure to the carb???
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