Yamaha TT600E Belgarda Problem Help.
 

Hi Guys

I need a bit of advice about a problem with a TT600E which I have just bought.

Here we go..When I start the bike from cold it smokes really badly and smells of burning oil but after a few minutes it clears up with know sign of any smoke what so ever.

When I bought the bike the engine was warm so as mentioned I didn`t see any problems with it.

There is no oil leeks or strange noises coming from its engine and the bike pulls like a train when ridden.

It is a 2001 model and has only covered 7800 KM,I have all of its Mot`s to back the milage and the bike is in mint condition showing no sign of abuse.

What could be wrong with it?

Surely it doesn`t need a top end rebuild at 7.8K

Can a dodgy engine oil valve cause this to happen?

Does anyone also know of any Yamaha Dealers in the UK that would be willing or able to get hold of genuine parts for the TT600E.Spoke to my local one today and he told me "thats what happens when you buy an import" he wasn`t interested in helping me with parts.

Did a bit of research today and found that Germany is the place to live if you own a TT/TTR/XT ETC.

Any help will be much appreciated as I`m starting to regret my purchase.

Thanks Guys.

Paul.

Mmmmmm I,m no mechanic but I would think it would be a valve seal and maybe oil is draining in to the piston overnight and getting blown out when starting.............but that is just a guess,hopefully someone will be along soon who actually knows what they are talking about......it should not be burning oil like that at such low mileage,are you sure of the mileage?.....

Just read this

As a weight-saving measure, Yamaha fitted the XT with a chrome-plated aluminum cylinder liner (the same as on the TT600) instead of a more-conventional iron liner. We've heard reports that some TT cylinder liners get out-of-round easily, causing oil consumption to go up. Some TT600 owners even have resorted to installing iron liners. When asked about the problem, a Yamaha spokesman said out-of-round liners and oil consumption shouldn't be a problem if the bike is broken-in carefully.

Hope thats not your problem cos its a complete strip down if it is,well the top end anyway...........hope I,m wrong...

Valve stem oil seals. As said above, a little oil leaks past them overnight, and gets burnt off when you start it from cold. Had exactly the same symptoms on my 86 XT.

Previous owner clearly knew about it, thats why it was warm when you went to see it.

Try Fowlers in Bristol. 0117 9770466. They wont do anything without a frame number, so make sure you have it to hand when you call. They've always been good to me, and my bike is an import too.

I don,t know about your tt but my old 86 tenere s head cannot be removed with the engine in,maybe the tt is different and you can remove the head and have it overhauled by an engineering company if you are not too mechanically minded.

Some one will know ....just remembered I have a tt 2004 manual here and this is what it says,I hope its the same for your year....

The cylinder head, cylinder, camshaft and piston
can be examined with the engine installed by
removing the following parts.
• Seat
• Fuel tank
• Rear cowling
• Carburetor
• Exhaust pipe

bier

Hello Chaps

Thanks for your advice,I do appreciate it.

Thought about valve stem seals but wouldn`t the oil that had run down overnight get burnt off in a matter of seconds when the engine is fired up rather than taking minutes?

Also regarding its cylinder liner being out of round,wouldn`t this have shown up when the bike was young and repaired under warranty..hope it isn`t that as it sounds expensive just after buying the bike.

Also surely the engine would smoke all the time with an untrue cylinder?

This clears up after a few minutes.

Just checked my oil tank level and it has not dropped since last night so it seems that the engine oil valve is ok,don`t know if this would have made the engine smoke anyway.

Regarding the bikes milage,I have checked all of its paperwork plus the bike and there seems to be no indication of clocking,I mean even the footpegs still have paint on them,it has its original discs plus the seat cover has no wear or shiney areas,seems to be original..7,800 km.

Had my bro-in-law round earlier to have a listen to the TT and he told me that the engine sounds sweet and has no piston slap or cam rattle what so ever and he has been around dirt bikes for nearly 40 years and was once South East Trials Champion and Expert Class 250/500 MX rider so I tend to believe him,he mentioned guides and seals.

Looks like its going to be a strip down but was wondering how I am going to get hold of torque settings for the engine when Yamaha UK will not talk to Import Owners..Any Ideas?

Yes will ring Fowlers..Cheers Mate.

Thanks
Paul.

You're right. If the bore was worn excessively, or out of true, it would smoke most of the time. I guess it takes a few seconds for all the accumulated oil to get hot enough to burn - most of it ends up in the exhaust header the first turn of the engine, I would think, so has to burn off from there.

Thats low miles for a ten year old bike. Can you tell from the old MOT's if its spent a year or 2 doing no miles at all? Valve stem seals are a bit like fork seals, in that they sometimes seem to go a bit crispy and stop working on bikes that dont move for long periods.

If the bike is overfilled with oil it can smoke a lot on startup. Its whiteish/gray smoke, and smells like one would think burning oil would smell.

Could be you're problem as theese bikes are easy to overfill, because its hard to tell the oillevel, or many dont now exactly how to.

Check oil consumption
 

I have done 70,000km on my XT 600e and occasionally it smokes when I start up, I have put this down to a valve stem oil seal leaking when the engine stops with a valve open, it does not do it all the time and does not smoke under normal use.My wifes XT on the other hand does not do this, same year similar milage
my bike uses no more oil now than it did at 10,000ks so I decided to ignore the smoke under start up.
Check your oil consumption over a 500km run and if its minimal don,t worry about it.
I am a bike mechanic and the old adage applies if it aint broke don,t fix it, all XT,s have there peculiarities, mine has had a rattle on start up from day one, its the same rattle today.
Great bikes the XT,s and fairly agricultural, not a lot goes wrong with these at your milage
Hope this helps
Pete

stop panicking ....
 

The story that XTs have been provided with chrome plated cilinder liners is utter bullsh*t. That never ever happened and might be inferred by the earlier TTs that had a nickasil cilindr liner, indeed a bit less agricultural with respect to reliability.

What you describe is "oil-pumping" which happens to dry sump engines, when overfilled with oil or with oil pumps that are a bit worn. Oil that is supposed to be in the oil tank resides in the sump and overflows into the cilinder, burns off at startup.
My 3AJ did this for years without noticeable oil consumptin or other undesirable effetcs.
If it ain't broke ....

As to parts: most of your bike's parts are identical to the parts on other XT/TT6 bikes, so a bit of creativitity goes a long way here.

A

hi there i would give the bike a fresh oil and filter change and DONT forget to bleed the oil from the filter housing , sorry i do not know how much oil to put in a belgarder , a lot of guys put too much oil in xts ,mine had way too much when i got it . zigzag

Hi Guys

Regarding the stem seals going brittle over time caused by lack of use,here are the bikes KM figures over the years taken from its history showing total after each mot..

Years 1 to 3 = 1468km
4th year = 1669km
5th year = 1754km
6th year = 1931km
7th year = 3049km
8th year = 5065km
9th year = 7341km
Currently at about 7800km.

As you can see it did quite a bit of sitting around in the first half of its life but its usage increased when the original owner sold it on so maybe it has been smoking away for 4 years or so with the last owner not bothering to get it looked at??

One of you guys mentioned oil sitting in the bottom of the sump and then finding its way into the combustion chamber..what is the cure for this as I will be getting complaints from the neighbours with the amount of smoke that comes out of the pipe,can`t` really live with it as it is too much?

I`m pretty sure that the amount of oil that is in the TT is correct,just checked it and it is in between the low and high marks.

Is there any final checks that can be done to see if the problem isn`t something simple before I get my tools out and take its top end off?

Forgot to mention that the smoke is a light grey colour.

The previous owner had an oil change done the day before I picked it up,could the wrong oil cause this if it much thinner than the recommended 20/50?

Just clutching at straws,don`t really want to get my hands greasy.LOL.

Thanks.

Kenny & Jens have nailed this question, either to much oil in it but more likely its your valve stem oil seals from your description.

Its not a major to worry about, its doing no harm to your bike.

A top end rebuild is not so hard & the learning curve is worth the hassle.

Mezo.

Valve stem seals
 

If it is not overfilled with oil, then it sure sounds like valve stem oil seals, which should be renewable without removing the head.
You'll need compressed air to hold the valves shut(& with the piston at TDC) & it's a fiddly job, but saves having to remove the exhaust, carbs & head. And no need to buy a new head gasket.
There is a special tool for car engines made by KD Tools to compress the valve springs. I don't know if they make a smaller one for bikes? there's not much room in there.
I have made a fork-like lever tool to compress the valve spring by levering under the head of a bolt screwed into the top of the head.
I have done plenty on car engines this way, but not on an XT600.
Maybe someone else on here has?

A mate of mine was telling me the other day, you can use thin rope down the sparkplug hole to stop the valve falling through while you change the seals. Basicaly pack the crown of the piston to support the vavles when you take them apart. Sounds pefectly feasible, you can use a similar thing on chainsaws to lock the crank to undo the clutch nut.
Sounds like a right fiddly faff to be honest, when you could just take the head off and do it on the bench. And while its in bits you can relap the valves aswell!