What kind of vehicle would be best to support light enduro bikes in the desert?

Things that are important for me are:
-reliability,
-off-raod capability (including long stretches of deep sand/dunes)
-reasonable fuel consumption on pavement (not more than 1HZ)

Budget: 9000Euro.

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www.globerider.pl

Best? Another light enduro bike.

One important factor ... how much weight does this vehicle have to carry to support the bikes? Things like fuel, food, water, tyres all add up. No point in suggesting something when it won't carry the weight.

I was thinking about 7 days for 3 bikers + vehicle driver.
Distance up to 700km without refuelling.

That is 9l of drinking water per person per day (within emergency amount): 9x4x7= 252L

+ 3l for shower per person every day= 84 + water for washing kitchen stuff= 100L

20L of diesel per day = 140L

15l of petrol per day per biker: 15x7x3=315L
+ at least 200kg of other equipment.

In summary: 252+100+140+315+200=1007kg

P.s. My first choice would be HZJ79 but it is impossible to find one in my price zone at the moment.

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www.globerider.pl

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...-4x4-van-89746

Either that, look around in the neighbouring countries, maybe you can find a project for less initial sum, but you would need to invest in the refurbishment.

Other option in my view would be LR Defender 130, and try to get one from some fire department, they're usually very aware of keeping the car in top shape.

Really curious with what you will buy in the end

cheers
Dooby

Todo, Uaz 452 diesel:

+
simple
solid front and rear axle
big payload (over 1 tonne)
the weight can be placed between the axles
spacious
leafs front and rear


-
it is not known for its reliability
it is not existent in the Sahara
no comfort at all
engine swap on expedition vehicle can arouse some problems during repair
2.8tdi isuzu might have problems in the dunes with 2 tons of car + 1 tonne of load

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www.globerider.pl

To find HZJ79 one should look in neighbouring continents or even further.
The refurbishment of old cars is very expensive.

LR 130 especially in double cab setup is particularly interesting because one can put a bike on the back of the car in case of bike breakdown or rider injury. That is a real asset.

On the other hand I suppose that LR130 with a tonne of load will be flat out in the dunes.
Besides I do not have faith in new LRs reliability. In EU it is not a problem, you will fix everything one way or another. Having a major car failure in the desert few days of driving from the nearest garage may impose some serious problems in terms of time and money.
New LRs are not popular in the Sahara except for those with european number plates.
This year I was on a trip to Djanet and the only LRs that I have seen were the old ones- LR III series ect.

__________________
www.globerider.pl

OK, got you. You´re looking for a comfortable, supersonic dune buggy, which isn´t stressed at 1ton payload to keep up with bikes for a fist full of change.

I´d still trust that UAZ.
Reliability of that thing is relative. Maintainabilty is for sure. At this price it is a steal. You could iron out a lot, for what you still have on your budget and fuel up for most of the trip.

As s´one already mentioned well cared firetrucks. How about this one
MAN 12.192 4x4. or this IVECO?

The MAN has already a 1200l water tank built in and lot´s of space to carry all catering and needs everywhere. Not quick, surely a little bit thirstier than a car. 130hp Ivecos start at 4k€, so you could save a lot for fuel upfront.

Too big. Here is one size smaller. Definitely does the job: MAN VW-MAN 8.150-FAE

But still 90km/h max and 20l/100km (of all qualities) of Diesel.

No Truck, too slow and thirsty?
No car (130, LC, etc), with 1ton always at it´s limit?
So, vans? But, I´d guess you do not want to bring a plastic electronic Sprinter to the dunes, when you already mistrust a mechanically governed 2.8 Isuzu?

In the van class, my all-time favorite definitely is a´90s MB410D with Iglhaut 4x4 and decent tires. Here is a similar well maintained low milage 309D 4x4. Not sure, if a Iglhaut with G-Model axles. These are rare, and sought after. That´s why not exactly in the budget. As this VW LT40 4x4

Really curious, what you will end up with.

Good luck.

Todo,

thank you for your propositions.
If diesel in EU had algerian prices a truck would be an option (I even have a licence). The price of buying is just a begining. Maintainig bigger vehicles is always more expensive. Besides in the dunes recovering the truck is a challenge.

I like to keep it small and simple and want to use that thing also as a day to day commuter (whenever it is possible I ride on moto).

I like vans you mentioned, especially mercedes-benz although I prefer part-time 4x4 for conserving fuel on those long stretches of termac.

I admit that the question I asked in the first post was a liitle bit a kind of: "what is the best colour?" And everybody will say "of course my favourite one".

Now I am looking for not rusted, low mileage HZJ80 with part-time4x4 (hard task those days). Maybe it will not take 1 tonne, but it is a beauty.

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www.globerider.pl

I think a 4x4 like a landcruiser is too small for what you need. You could fill that just with your own kit. What will you do in the event of biker injury/accident or bike failure?

I have done this twice going to eastern europe so no off roading. First time I used an L200 which was great, second time a crew cab transit. Both times I took a dismantleable bike trailer which was really handy as I had to carry a sick rider while towing his bike and then tow someones bike when it terminally broke down. Whether one of these would work in the desert is a different matter. In the event of serious injury you may need to be able to lie someone down in the vehicle. I didn't have to carry any fuel or camping kit but the truck was full, stuffed full.

I think your light on fuel, especially for the bikes but even then you are overweight for your proposed vehicle, and thats before you add in tools, spares, camping gear etc etc which will very quickly take you well over your 200Kg limit. Are you really only going to be driving 50miles a day, because that will be about your range, if your lucky, in sand fully loaded on 20L of diesel, so your also way under estimating on fuel. You need to allow for getting lost, detours, fuel loss, and garages being shut. A landcruiser will get 10-15mpg in sand. Calculate fuwl useage on that basis, then add 50% safty margin. 140L of diesel doesn't weigh 140Kg and you haven't allowed for container weight, so again, your underestimating your weight there. Ideally, you only want to be running at 50% of max payload off road, 75% max.

Chris Scott used a 101 and it was a bit of a nightmare I believe. Personally I would go for something van size like an Iveco, Mercedes or Reynolds Broughton

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1990 Landcruiser H60. Full rebuild completed 2014

I admit you are right. On the trip to Tadrart this year our hilux 2.4d was busy supporting only one XR650R. Camping gear should have been multiplied by the number of riders. I was thinking about hilux 2.4 while calculating the diesel and I didn't add safety margin.

Once again:
I was thinking about 7 days for 3 bikers + vehicle driver.
Distance up to 700km without refuelling.

That is 9l of drinking water per person per day (within emergency amount): 9x4x7= 252L

+ 3l for shower per person every day= 84 + water for washing kitchen stuff= 100L

28L of diesel per day+ 50% of safety margin = 294L that weights 244kg

20l of petrol per day per biker + 50% of safety margin: 30x7x3=630L that weights about 472kg,

I will have 924l of fuel so I need 47 canisters x 3kg= 141kg

+ at least 350kg of other equipment (tools, spares for car and bikes, few tires, hi-lift, recovery tools, boxes, cameras, notebook, batteries, chairs, table, kitchen stuff, whisky )
+ 30kg of camping gear/food/clothes per person x4= . 120kg
+ 350 kg in a case of 1 injury and 2 broken bikes
+100 kg for things that I forgot to mention

In summary: 252+100+244+472+141+350+120+350+100=2129kg So I am looking for the vehicle with the payload of 4,3 tonnes or more that can take 2 bikes, a person in horizontal position, 47 twenty litres canisters and a lot of other bulgy stuff...

another idea is to set up the fuelling/ camping spot with the help of the guide and make short trips in different directions around that place...

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www.globerider.pl

Opps indeed. An alternative is 3 4x4s. Or reduce the 700kms.

That takes a lot more time.
An alternative used in the past in Australia were fuel dumps - 44 gallon drums placed out in the remote places for your use. While painting your name on them helped .. it did not stop people taking fuel from them. In the very old days the desert people would smash them open thinking there was water inside.

It will interesting to see what you come up with.

Do you really need 4x4?

How about a 2wd Mercedes Vario? With decent tyres and the right driver it would be OK off road on most Morocco tracks apart from dunes/soft sand. Or a 4x4 Vario but rarer and more expensive

I like this Vario 4x4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H06c5U9-csE

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www.globerider.pl

A 4x4 MAN Kat 1 has a 5 ton off road payload Not too much to buy, not many around, most 100% refurbished in 2006, shouldn't lose money over a few years maybe even gain a little?

This 6x6 was used to support bike tours in North Africa for quite a few years I believe, but they recently sold and changed to two more modern but still surplus stock 4x4 trucks, I think Steyrs. It had space to store bikes on the front and inside, massive fuel and water tanks in the back and rudimentary beds and a kitchen. Does 60mph at a push.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZnB4mvhgsA