It is WELL in hand

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But please check out about insurance first!

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Thought that all those sad stories about UK are only some sort of bad propaganda in the yellow press. Is it really like this?

Yes, they are written by Chinese Government agents in revenge to the sabotage of the Olympic Games.

No -The Uk is great.

I love it! Maybe I am having a 'half full' day though

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Ollie

www.jollyfollies.com

Land's End to Sydney 2009

So can I summarise this so far?

Marc is a fool and an idiot (or not).
Fastship hates the UK and all who sail in her.
Fastship doesn't know the full facts about the Brazilian incident.
The British Police are heavy handed and lazy gits.
The UK Customs and Immigration don't do their job properly.
There are great wadges of information out there on the legal requirements for a vehicle in the UK.
Opinions are split as to whether you should be able to get away with breaking the law of that land, or not.
Jersey residents are too rich anyway.

Ok so far?
Sorry for the interruption, pray continue.

For my pennies worth - after a very good mate of mine was killed on his bike by an uninsured and disqualified driver, causing his wife and newly born kid untold distress, I applaud the actions of the fine (unarmed, generally helpful, polite and uncorrupt) Police.

Great stuff! I didn't realise there is a slightest chance for such a trivial subject to make people come out of the woodwork and offer opinion and advice. The more so as it has nothing to do with Sahara travel.

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Roman (UK)

Oh yes, it has very mucho to do:
it seems that the guy was in the Sahara before going to the UK.
I think that that is more than enough.

BTW, what about a thread about Iran's nuclear programme?
The Touareg conflict has lots to do with the uranium mines in Arlit.

Please moderators, move this to another section of the forum (please don't delete it).

onlyMARK - I absolutely adore this country and will defend it with my life which is why I am so distressed that those who did actually defend it with their lives (including many ANZACS) are being betrayed by those who are only too willing to give away the freedoms they fought and died for.

I know as many facts about Jean Charles de Menezes being summarily executed by "fine unarmed(!), generally helpful, polite and uncorrupt British police" as anyone.

You must be able to infer from KUNO2 in the way he writes and what he says "I have spent a good part of my life in a part of the world where it is not always easy to tell his opinion in an open way" that he may just be from one of those places which did not have the freedoms so many people in this country are so casually prepared to give away, even demand that they are taken away in fact.

This thread is absolutely on topic in this forum as some of us are going to the Sahara and would hope to be treated with more compassion there than this guy seems to be here. He had good intentions, he ought to have been insured but he wasn't. It's everything that happened after that is just wrong.

We are all travellers and should treat fellow travellers in our country as we would hope to be treated in theirs. The contrast between the hospitality I have received from people in places who had no reason to be friendly to me or any Brit and the downright hostility I see towards this guy here outrages me but sadly, is eloquent testimony to modern Britain. You should all be ashamed. I try to respect the laws of the countries I travel in but would be horrified to be treated in the way this guy was in mine. For it to happen in my own country simply confirms some of the things that have gone wrong with this country as does the way he is being attacked in this forum.

Craig76 - explain to me why I have trouble getting insurance because after paying up to £1200 per year fully comp. and having two GSXR's and one Fireblade stolen over a period of little more than three years it's my fault?

KONO2 - you said: "Thought that all those sad stories about UK are only some sort of bad propaganda in the yellow press. Is it really like this?" well judge for yourself from some of the opinions expressed here.

Only in tonight's evening newspaper where I live was there an article boasting that my city would soon have the most advanced CCTV mass surveillance network of cameras not just of any UK city but of any city anywhere in the world AND THEY WERE ACTUALLY BOASTING OF THIS!

I'm just waiting now for someone to respond with the "if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear" line...

As one wise American once said "People who are willing to give up freedom for the sake of short term security, deserve neither freedom nor security.

I hope you friend does come back to the UK, it is the most beautiful, diverse and interesting island in the world and most of the people are liberal, laidback and welcoming. Unfortunately there are a great many who are xenophobic freedom hating arseholes - but we got 'em on the run!

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There are two sorts of country as far as insurance is concerned - those where it is a legal requirement and where failure to comply with this requirement is dealt with harshly and those where insurance is for all intents and purposes meaningless.

The UK, Europe, and North America certainly falls into the first category. (Arguably the UK economy is based on crappy service industries like insurance). Not to drive with insurance is therefore very unwise and I don't think anyone really has much sympathy for Marc. I must admit that I have ridden and driven in countries where insurance is less of an issue but that is something you weigh up before you go and pay the consequences for if you get caught without it.

Sadly insurance premiums are not going up as a result of uninsured people having accidents. They are going up because as soon as the garage knows it is an "insurance job" it doubles the quote and that anyone involved knows that "where there's blame there's a claim" and comes down with life threatening whiplash injuries that take the lawyers years to sort out. I'm the most cynical skeptic as far as insurance is concerned.

For most people, the police in the UK tend to be quite fair compared to say the US and the gestapo. However I must say that crushing seized cars is outrageous - "put it on e-bay" (to quote a certain A Hitler on that great You Tube vid that's doing the rounds) and give the money to a good cause. On the whole you get away with a lot in the UK because the police are busy filling in forms and laws don't really get enforced. In fact the ones that do tend to be easy pickings rather than the more serious ones and for this reason many people are disillusioned with the police forces in the UK.

Most amusing thread this one............

Really really enjoyed this thread... couldn't help myself.... it's like an illness or something... I have to reply!

Police - UK Police - what a really really fine bunch of men. Seriously, what a fantastic body of people who do such a tuff job. You meet the occasional arse - but you get that everywhere. Obviously being bikers we're slightly more likely to be pulled by her majesties finest - and in all those times I've never been treated with anything but respect and patience - even when pulled over for being really rather silly... obviously they respectfully and patiently give me a ticket and some points..... but that was my own fault... how could I possibly turn around and blame the police for enforcing the law of the land?

The last time I got pulled was for turing down a 'no left turn' street - I didn't see the sign but I did it right in front of a police car - unsurprisingly got pulled over and given a penalty ticket for £30 - wanted to argue - didn't see the sign - walked back up the street and I swear it's the biggest sign you've ever seen - how I missed it I'll never know... but does that mean I shouldn't have to pay the fine? Is it right that we start to allow the police force the discretion on wether or not someone has broken the law? Isn't that starting to put the judiciary and police force into the same body? I find that rather disturbing.

And bringing the tube shooting into this thread is really rather silly - what on earth has it got to do with driving without insurance? However - I know I know - I'm going to respond.

I'm not going to get into the details of that incident as I believe you mentioned it as a demonstration of how bad our police are. What I could do here now is go through a list of how fantastic the British police are - I suspect I'll find a lot more of those than you'll find shooting of innocent people.

In fact let's take the metropolitan area of London for a moment. Last year armed officers in our capital drew weapons less than 30 times. 30 times in the whole year. They were discharged 5 times. 3 of those resulted in death. These are hardly the statistics of a corrupt and dangerous police force. I'm not saying what happened on the tube was 'right' I am agreeing it was totally wrong - what I am saying is it's not indicative of the British police force - more so of the British special services - and frankly I don't have the information on how many times MI5 and the other special services dew weapons in this country and having had no dealings with them I certainly can't comment on how 'corrupt' they are - my own feelings? I doubt it very much.

Annnnyway. (home run now)

If I'm traveling anywhere the most basic research I do is what I 'need' in order to travel in the country. When entering Russia what documents do I need? When I cross the border into Morocco what is expected?

Then I weigh up the 'value' of each of those things against the consequences of not having them. So my Russian visa - very very important consequence of not having it? Not getting in the country.

Russian Insurance? Value is small, consequences if I don't have it? It'll cost me more at the road side to deal with than at the border - may as well get it.

EU countries... Insurance? Legal requirement. Consequences if I don't have it? Car will get crushed. Guess what I'm going to do?

I've not met Marc, I've not got the whole story, and it wouldn't be fair for me to comment on his individual circumstances - perhaps the whole thing played out as stated in the first post - perhaps the first post was written from a slightly biased point of view - perhaps the police were beastly. Who knows for sure?

One thing I am sure of, if Marc comes back to an EU country again, he'll make damn sure he has a relevant license and insurance.

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http://thelondonbiker.com/blog

Watch some of my camp cooking videos

AIM: mattcashmore
SKYPE: matthewcashmore
MSN: matthew@matthewcashmore.com

Just arrived in the US from the UK and have woken up early so these kind of threads are great for passing some time!

I guess being a good visitor to a country simply comes down to respecting the local laws and customs and not simply saying "that's not the way we do it at home so I won't here". It's so easy to take the moral high ground though but from time to time you just cannot follow the local laws for various reasons.

Is this about the police? I don't think so - they're just enforcing the law and are in the firing line in the UK mainly as a result of government policy. People's perception of the police is that they are there to tackle crime but they don't see any real action when they experience say an attack in the street or a theft of a vehicle. They just end up a statistical victim with a crime reference number and there is never any investigative action because the chance of securing a conviction is so slim. At the same time a "less serious" traffic misdemeanor often results in a fine and points on the license. As Matt says you can't argue that you did nothing wrong but it is easy to feel frustrated that the law treats people this way.

Perhaps it is high profile incidents like the Menezes shooting that bring the British police into disrepute. A very rare example indeed but it's my opinion that there are some very heavy handed police operations - anti terrorism in particular but look too at that disappeared canoeist that did a Lazarus. His wife when she returned from Panama was arrested by some very burly looking armed police at the airport - you'd have though Osama Bin Laden was coming in to watch an Arsenal match. Completely ridiculous.

It is easy to criticize without offering a solution. My view is that if you are uninsured and you get caught then there is a reasonable fine to pay and a short ban. That should be a deterrent - there's no need to crush cars in a situation like this. I hear that Customs and Excise order the crushing of many cars when people are caught "smuggling" in cheap cigarettes from the continent. It just seems wrong to do this. If you have an accident and you are uninsured then that is more serious and should result in a very large fine, ban and maybe jail in the case of serious injury being caused.

Personally I hate insurance and all it stands for - the system is just not fair. That's another rant for another occasion.