why would you 'really like' one ? be honest.

just to add.. don't get into a discussion about reliability of a manufacturer, it's been done to death and is largely irrelevent.

but, kidding yourself about the reasons for buying is a sure way to be disappointed. I think this is more so in the case of BMW. Some people seem to buy to them because they are 'overlander cool', and they like the image. I think BMW sell more lifestyle products/accessories than anyone else (except maybe KTM).

but then because (especially here) that image reason is looked down upon, the 1200 GS buyer has to pretend to want one because of 'german engineering' and reliability. then, when something breaks, they moan loudly because they convinced themselves that they'd bought the most reliable bike.

if you want a GS because it's going to make you feel good seeing it parked outside a cafe in the Highlands, then get one. that's a perfectly valid reason to buy a bike. let's face it, all bikes are much of a muchness, there's no real reason to buy one manufacturer over another except personal preference (if you are honest about it).

an Enfield is cooler though :-)

but, kidding yourself about the reasons for buying is a sure way to be disappointed. I think this is more so in the case of BMW. Some people seem to buy to them because they are 'overlander cool', and they like the image. I think BMW sell more lifestyle products/accessories than anyone else (except maybe KTM).

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engjacques
09 R1200GS. 06 Royal Star Tour Deluxe

I really don't understand why people keep repeating this point over and over and over and over...the simple fact is that R1200GS (and other BMW bikes) are very good bikes, and I expect that is why most people buy them.

And saying that BMW sells the most lifestyle products/accessories is laughable, since they've got, what, 1% of the bike market? At least in the US, Harley Davidson is way, way, way out in front on the lifestyle products.

Went to the motorad dealer in Glasgow today and had a look at the 1200GSA 30 year Anniversary.....hmmm what a tasty looking machine....and a lovely colour too....

it is a decent bike. but, here at least, it's topped the sales charts for 2 (3?) years. they are expensive, and they are the commuter bike of choice for the relatively well off.

lots of them in london, just like X5's and Range Rovers. and equally absurd; so many seem to get stuck filtering. there's no way most people buy a 1200 GS because it's simply a good bike (there are other good bikes at less than half the price).

it's the lifestyle, the image, etc. which is exactly why you should buy a bike (assuming you've got lots of cash), something that makes you feel good.

who buys a play-bike because of it's supposed reliability ? totally different set of priorities at work here, compared to picking a distance/RTW bike.


"Went to the motorad dealer in Glasgow today and had a look at the 1200GSA 30 year Anniversary.....hmmm what a tasty looking machine....and a lovely colour too...."

so......................................... did you ride it ?

I think you "hit the nail on the head" there Doug !

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Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light. - Spike Milligan
"When you come to a fork in the road ,take it ! When you come to a spoon in the road ,take that also ."

I did. Imagine in pre-internet days, a young barely needing to shave TWB straight into a decent job from Uni, a little biking experience (MZ's), the ill gotten gains of cheap student loans still burning a hole in his pocket, close to damaging his copy of Chris Scotts book. Knowing nothing of practical use (engineering degree!), the question of what to buy is based on a desire to do the trips, right now, with no learning curve plus what's in the book and what people who claim to be in the know tell you. People tell you BMW's are the best bike for the job, so that's what you get. Many years, several rides on the recovery truck and one walk in the desert later I'm no longer a BMW owner (had four of the things as part of the learning curve) and not one to pass on this notion. My collection of Touratech gadgets likewise records my often failed attempts to buy perfection.

I'm not saying the R1200 is a bad bike and if the looks and gadgets float your boat that's great, but IMHO go into this with open eyes. The CAN bits put me off, the price puts me off, the rumours of BMW using customers for testings rings true, the claims of constant shaft failures etc. don't. As the saying goes you pay your money and make your choice. Personally I'd wait two years to see what the big Tenere is like or buy an 18 month old Tiger but that's just my choice based on my experience and preferences.

Andy

Good bikes? Well, I'd argue that.
But more to the point of this thread "... are they worth it?" In the USA BMW's are relatively more expensive compared to other bikes. In Europe, the gap between BMW, Japanese, Austrian and Italian bikes is far smaller. In the USA we get Japanese bikes very cheap ... but BMW's are very expensive. So the whole "is it worth it" idea is more relevant here due to the added expensive a BMW represents.

The life style aspect mentioned is accurate IMO. Come to California to see this. In the UK too I suspect. In the UK probably largely due to Long Way Round/Down et al. UK sales of GS's went off the chart as a result of these popular films. Are all these new BMW GS owners going round the world? No, it's a fade, a trend ... here today, gone tomorrow. BMW are the lucky recipients of this wind fall.

Here in California its clearly a lifestyle thing ... but its relatively new ... only about 5 years old or so when the new R1200GS really took off sales wise. You rarely see an owner without a Twat suit, bags and tons of expensive Tourtech farkles. So, like HD, the BMW guys trick out their bikes. Huge profits here for BMW .... and HD too. I see no harm in this ... if you've got it, flaunt it! Life is too short to worry what others think about such trivialities.

The HD life style (RUB:rich urban biker) phenom here is the USA has faded drastically in the last couple years, not just in bike sales but the $$Millions$$ in accessories sold every year. It's dead. Thousands of HD's up for sale.

But its almost like the BMW GS's and KTM's have taken their place. But yes, in smaller numbers. HD had a huge market share in the USA. Dropped 46% last year.

BTW, BMW sales are typically about 3% of USA sales, not 1%. The GS line in the US represents over 65% of BMW total sales. (R1200 and F800/650) California sell more GS's and BMW's in general than any other state. So here, figure about a 8% to 10% market share. Very affluent state. That can be a pretty significant number in a state of 30 million people with something like 3 to 5 million registered motorcycles. Big business.

On what basis? Do you have one?

Sure, you can get more bang-for-the-buck with other bikes, no question about that. But the fact that you can buy 3 KLRs (or whatever) for the price of a GS is disingenous, I think--after all, you can only ride one bike at a time.

Don't mean to pester, ...but, as earlier posted, ...do you have a BMW?

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Thomas

"Hey, ...I'm just ridin' shotgun"

I don't think you need to own one to know about them !!

Have you owned a 1960's Italian sports car ?? Probably not, but I bet you already know that they're very expensive and break down a lot !! (and that wasnt a metephor for a 1200GS)

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Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

haha, this is the wrong forum to ask this question...people here seem to have an almost pathalogical hatred for BMWs. Be prepared for personal insults too, because if you want a BMW you are obviously a poseur.

Anyway, I've got a 1200 GS and GSA and they are great bikes. Perfect? No, but as you point out no bike is perfect. The reliability issues with the GS are grossly overstated, especially on this forum. I think that for your purpose, a GS would be great, although you could also probably spend less money for a different bike and be perfectly happy.

I've never been on an 1150, but they sound like great bikes, and the people that have them seem to like them a lot. Which you prefer is mostly personal taste IMHO--whether you like the "old fashioned" 1150 or the "gadgety" 1200.

Part of the equation is your physical build--all of the GSs are big and heavy, so the bigger you are, the better.

Similar questions are posed quite often in the GS subfora of ADVRider and UKGSers, you might want to search there, or post your own question.

"Be prepared for personal insults too, because if you want a BMW you are obviously a poseur"

this is kinda what I meant. exactly what is wrong with owning a GS and being a poseur ? aren't most of us poseurs ?

you're implying people ride GS' because they are not for posing, but essential. the implication is, if you are not GS-hardcore, you should just buy a bike that's 'adequate'. which means we should mostly be riding around on 500cc twins. No one needs 1000cc + to propel themselves around the industrialised world (whether BM, Honda, etc).

but if you just fancy the GS why shouldn't you buy it ? somehow the inverse snobbery is just as bad, I have a GS because I am so hardcore and not able to live with anything less. the parallel is trying to justify a Range Rover in a city, rather than see image as a perfectly valid reason for ownership. Or buying an old beat up XT to portray under-dog status.

motorbikes are indulgences these days.

[quote=DougieB;292377]this is kinda what I meant. exactly what is wrong with owning a GS and being a poseur ? aren't most of us poseurs ?[\quote]
Indeed, there are many types of moto-poseurs, but only BMW poseurs attract any attention on this forum.

[quote=DougieB;292377]you're implying people ride GS' because they are not for posing, but essential. the implication is, if you are not GS-hardcore, you should just buy a bike that's 'adequate'. [\quote]
Uh, I'm not implying anything of the kind. GSs are certainly not essential, you don't have to be "GS-hardcore" to enjoy them (I'm not), and many other bikes are certainly more than adequate. The fact is that there are simply not that many bikes with many of the GS's features (large engine, ergonomics, good suspension/ground clearance, shaft drive, etc.), so choices are pretty limited.