Really ?? His must be the only one

Maybe he swaps his bushes before they fail....

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Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

No waterpump problems at all ... once in 110,000 kms I changed the pump seals. Its not a difficult job and easily done from the outside of the engine.

Ted - if you get a BMW, will we be seeing you in Rallye jacket and pants?

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You must be blessed by the motorcycle gods !!! Good for you though. Yeah, it's not a hard job but it should be an unnecessary one.

I almost bought a BMW one a few weeks back. I really did. Then I slapped myself across the face and said five hail Mary's. A lucky escape

Ended up with a Triumph Tiger 955 instead..

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Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

If it had to be, please not the yellowish-black new one! I'm not a "aesthete" but that is way toooo ugly (if you have to pay it; for free i'd grab it right now)!!!

Another overlooked and not usally mentioned is dealing with a big bike in navigating crowded towns and cities. Also secure parking in sketchy areas. A GSA would be hell pushing around hotel courtyards.rooms and lobbies to secure for the night.

bobsp, the OP, must be a little bit in despair - no BMW thread can stay on topic for long!
Accepting that this thread has become one about 1200 (boxer) Vs 800 (twin) Vs 650 (single) then it seems that there have been some teething issues with the newish G650GS. From reading elsewhere, these relate to the starter circuit, especially when the engine has warmed up. No doubt the 2 year BMW warranty will sort out those bikes that are affected.

In the meantime, the basic G650GS model is priced in the UK at around £5300 and the Sertao is a good deal more at about £6700 - give or take, but we all know that you will never get a discount from a dealer on a new BMW - according to them they can sell every one they can get from BMW, but you have to think that there is an element of retail price maintenance (RPM) in all of this, especially in the current economic climate.

Never mind, they are good value when pre-owned!!

Poking around in a UJM dealership the other day, discounts on all 4 major Jap manufacturers new products are readily available; you just have to haggle.

As a F650GS owner, I agree with the gist of Colebatch's posts; for instance, the water pump is a well known weakish issue (and as he says, easily fixed - after all it is a seal and they all need replacing eventually; therefore this amounts to routine maintenance).

Apologies to bobsp for going
if you look back through the last year or so of threads in both "BMW tech" and "which bike" there are some considered views, and good information, about the bikes you are considering; it's just unfortunate that it is all over the place and totally unconnected.

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Dave

A mate of mine has bought a sertao for another trip in to Central / southern Africa ( he took a tenere the last time) He loves the little BMW - but has had problems with starting, (eletrical gremlins), Decompression valve wrongly shimmed from new in factory, decompression valve spring faulty, and a few other minor niggles including the service from BMW. These bikes are built in China not Germany - I assume the quality control should be good but such errors on a new built and delivered bike maybe put a question to that. The bike has spent quite a bit of time off the road ( by that I mean not working correctly) - that is not good for an new £7000 bike designed for travel. I am not sure but wonder if it also has the can bus electrics rather than a traditional wiring harness - can bus is something personally i would want to avoid.

Very well said.....


This is my major gripe with BMW... Faults like that are simply UNACCEPTABLE in this day and age for a MAJOR manufacturer.

BMW lovers just seem to live with this and get on with it. There must be some strange chemical built into the handgrips that chemically alters their brain to keep forking out ££££££££££££££££ and $$$$$$$$$$$ on something which should be reliable from day one to day infinite.

You just don't get that with the Japanese bikes... Which at times are actually significantly cheaper.

__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

I think BMWs attitude towards their clients of late absolutely stinks.

BMW, whilst successful, used to be a bit off the mainstream and didn't sell the volume of bikes that Jap and even some Italian makes did but after the launch of the 'adventure' (wanabee Ewan and Charley) market and their sucess with the 1200GS across Europe and elsewhere they seem to spend more money maintaining their image than they do on quality control.

There are widely reported significant issues with both the 1200 and 800/650GS yet they still run full page 'renowned for their reliability' ads in all the magazines - still, I suppose it's the customers who are the mugs!

Clearly everyone's experiences are different, but I think mine are more positive! The only think wrong with my 800 has been the gear display on the 'computer'. Originally, the dealer thought this was the potentiometer, which they changed under warranty, but it was still an issue - 5th gear would display then go away, then flick between 5th and 6th! After a little head scratching, they reset the computer and all works fine. I've moved gear-lever positions and since bought a folding lever, and they've reset it every time for free to avoid further ussues. In fact, every time I've been in to ask for advice / help / support, they've always been willing to spend time discussing it, even when my questions have, at times, been rather simplistic! I rarey get charged for minor issues; they've even refused to take money off me when I've offered it! Balderstones in Peterborough are excellent, and I've had nothing but great service from them.

No, I'm not on retainer!

I do agree that these, and more serious issues, should not occur in the first place, though.

As to the original post, it's well documented on here (and others) that smaller bikes can often = more fun / easier riding life / etc, so it makes sense to go for the smallest bike with which you're comfortable. If it's a choice between the 1200 and 800 only, then go for the 800. Test ride first, obviously. I love mine.

I have considered a smaller cc bike for the future, though . . . . .

The one post provides the answer to the other; it's all in the heart


As for pricing, it may have been the case that the UJM were significantly cheaper than European manufacturers, including BMW, but that is certainly no longer the case.
There are too many examples to bother quoting here but they have come up in a few posts recently.
Ah well, OK just one - the UK list price of the XT660Z is close enough to £7000.

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Dave

+1 for the Beemer dealerships that I have encountered.
They are a pleasant change from the back street garage and the 17 year old trainee mechanic with an oily rag and a vacant expression on his face; nevertheless, no matter which bike garage it is, I always have a good look at the workshop standards and get to talk with the staff who work in there - those at the front of the house are less important in this assessment.
I've walked away from businesses that don't want me to enter their workshop area.

again!!

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Dave

The difference is, the list price of the BMW is probably what you're going to pay. The list price of the Yamaha is irrelevant. Two minutes on eBay/Autotrader finds you brand new bikes under £6500.

In some social strata, riding a BMW adventure bike is acceptable. However, riding an old TTR is not.

In some cases, people do not really have other choice (you've got only 1 bike to commute -wearing costume and tie-), in other cases people just choose to narrow the equation bike=bmw (Ewan&Charly wanabee) and in others they are not enough self-confident not to mind what others think (load her with Touratech and load you with BMW gear and you still may be an eccentric adventurer posh guy).

Right after on the hierarchy, you've got Italian & American bikes, then Japanese, later Korean and finally Indian/Chinese.

Just how I see it and any of the reasons to go for a BMW is acceptable for me, as well as I understand you may not be willing to ride a Kymko bike, for whatever reason. But if your BMW is unreliable, please, be honest and share that info, do not be an "BM integrist", since others (who may not be restricted to that only brand) may be falsely induced to buy one unreliable bike based on your faked opinions.

Esteban

PS: I strongly considered buying a 650 Dakar in the past, being the contenders the Transalp and XT 600 (which I finally got), so nothing wrong with BMW. And find the X-Country and X-Challenge amazing bikes, as well as the old BMs. But cannot undestand narrowing a choice between 1200, 800 and 650, but only as long as it is (and has to be) a BMW. To me, it just feels like fitting your 7 members family in a Mercedes class-A before than getting a massive Ssanyong Rodius.
[edit: because you are ashamed of driving a Korean car and worry about what others think, same for motorcycles]

Well I don't totally agree with you guys. I rod the pamir highway with an GMW R100GS, which is as heavy as the 1200gs without any problems. It's dirt road, but no technical parts. And I suppose the 1200GSis way better than my old R100Gs.

Then, I rod Mongolia 2 up on the R100GS, and I met a couple on a GSA, they crossed mongolia from east to west, without problems.

It all comes down to your riding skills as well, and If I could have afford it, I would have go for a new GSA, but the bike alone was more than my total budget for my 6 month trip...

I believe that everything is possible, with some bike it's gonna be easier and with some other harder.

I met some people that did the mistake of take a proper enduro bike for a trip like mine, and if you really count, on my 34'000km journey... I had maximum 15-20% of dirt roads... So if you have a comfortable bike it's a big plus.