Just how crap are the BMW650´s

[*Touring Ted*]

Im currently in South America and bumping into many overlanders, especially at the hotspots...

Well, as you can imagine.. im seeing hundreds of every imaginable travel bike out there in all different forms and disguises..

Well, ill get to my point.....

Im coming back over here in 2-3 years with a buddy who wants me to recommend him a comfortable, fairy low seated and economical bike.. I want to recommend the (new model) BMW F650GS for him as it ticks all the right boxes, BUT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Out of all the bikes I see, the ones which are broken down, failing and falling to bits are the BMW´s, usually the 650´s.

These are new bikes too or well looked after 3-4 year olds with low mileage..

Eg:

Fuel pump disintegrating on a new 650,
Regulator failing on new 650,
Head bearings shagged after 12,000 miles,
Fork seals leaking after only road use,
Ignition electrics dropping contact
ABS failing

The list is pretty endless and peoples trips are being made pretty miserable. Soo many travelers are cursing their 650 Beemers..

Now I know people will say "But theres more BMW´650 on the road than other bikes", but thats just is not true by a long way..

So, is the 650 weak and overly electrically complicated or is it just coninsidence that its just the ones I see ???

Im a qualified moto mechanic but have limited experience on BMW´s, so id appreciate your feedback... Please try and try objective !!

Thanks

[splash]

My wife rides a Bmw650 GS, only 22 000 km so far, (I ride a r100GS pd). I am responsible for maintenance. On the plus side the 650 has remarkable fuel economy 4 to 4.5 litres / 100 km, even fully loaded and 120 km/h. It has a low seat and handles more like a trail bike. It will hold a lot of luggage. It has all the power you need.
On the negative side, they all suffer from the "hesitation" problem. They vibrate more than most, and are a mongrel to work on. The latter would be a big minus if it was breaking down all the time. Hers, almost new, has been reliable. It chucked the chain once. I have a love/hate relationship with it. We plan to ride 20 000km around Australia on our bikes next year. Would I buy one? Perhaps. I think it is a good bike for a woman.

[Lone Rider]

The F650 is one of the last 650-class bikes I would choose.

Gotta love BMW marketing.....

[Tony P]

splash
"mongrel to work on"?
Yes. maybe, but far easier that than trying to deal with BMW dealers with anything other than a thick wad of high value notes.

It is like trying to swim in treacle.

Actually my secondhand F650 Dakar saw me do 17,000 miles in 4 months across lots of Russia, back to Europe and on to Gib and back. Lots of no surfaced roads (is that off road?). The bike used 2 chain and sprocket sets.
On return it needed new fork staunchions and head races - both done under warranty and i was advised that the chain was worn. Looks and feels OK to me.

I suffered the usual BMW 'run-around' with different dealers telling me different things (which one was telling untruths, and why?) so I could not get the Navigatior II screen repaired (under warranty or not!) and BMW declined the warranty claim for the leaking topbox lid seal for lack of an original invoice to me (it was original equipment on the bike to the first owner!). Needless to say, having paid the dealer for this, the box filled with water in a storm within 15 minutes of leaving the workshops. Initially they tried to get out of it saying the warranty work was not guaranteed because the bike's warranty had expired while in their workshops. BUT I HAD HAD TO PAY FOR THE WORK and do they not warranty their work to cash paying customers? Grrrrr

I met the same attitude in BMW dealers in Moscow, London and Seville. Gleaming, white marble, smoked glass and stainless steel palaces, full of smartly dressed people whose only real talent seems to be ignoring and avoiding eye contact with a mere customer trying to get his bike sorted.
It must be BMW policy as they all showed exactly the same air of arrogance and indifference to a customer. Or at least they all did me. But as a 65 year old member of a well established profession, maybe I don't fit their customer model sufficiently.

Treacle, indeed.

[Martynbiker]

Originally Posted by Tony P

I met the same attitude in BMW dealers in Moscow, London and Seville. Gleaming, white marble, smoked glass and stainless steel palaces, full of smartly dressed people whose only real talent seems to be ignoring and avoiding eye contact with a mere customer trying to get his bike sorted.
It must be BMW policy as they all showed exactly the same air of arrogance and indifference to a customer. Or at least they all did me. But as a 65 year old member of a well established profession, maybe I don't fit their customer model sufficiently.

Treacle, indeed.

A blatant Plug for a Good Man..

I met EXACTLY the same high handedness and aloofness from Wo**aston BMW in Northampton. (ONE sales guy did have a friendly attitude but he later went to work for a dealerships in Towcester selling Harley Davidson.) The above company couldn't get your money off you fast enough and gave naff all in the way of service in return....... so i rode 3 or 4 miles to see a chap called Phil Kingston at Euroclassics, WHAT A DIFFERENCE!, Phil owns and runs Welcome to the Euro Classics with his wife Dinah, and if he doesn't know about it or how to fix it, it hasnt occured yet!

Phil is the Man in Northampton! half the price of dealers and 1,000% better service!

Martyn

[tmotten]

Did you see any 06 or 07 Dakars? That's what we'll be bringing in November. I hope that (as with most bikes) the last few years are the best models.

Anyway. The fuel pump and regulator are pretty dodgy. With the head bearings I think if might depend whether or not the owner lubed the bearings himself as the factory put next to no grease on them. The same goes for the swing arm ones.
The fork seals are weak, but did those guys have gaiters on them?
Ignition electrics dropping contact. What do you mean by this?
ABS failing. There have been some problems with the switch. But when you mean failing, do you mean it won't kick in when it should or they can't turn it off? In any case. In most places you'd turn it off anyway I reckon. Unfortunately I didn't have the option of not having ABS, but I wouldn't mind it not working.

[mollydog]

BMW's DO tend to have more than their share of probs based on what
I've seen in person and heard from "experts" at shops and on line.

[mattcbf600]

We saw the new 650GS at the London Bike show this weekend and I was really impressed with it on the stand - it's gone right up my 'what bike next' list... so very interested in this discussion.... what I can't work out at the moment (because BMW didn't have any literature on the stand about the new bike) is what the difference is between the old F650 and the new 650GS - have they fixed some of the problems or is it just the same bike re-branded?

Here's Stace on the said new bike... you have to admit... very pretty... well the bike is ;-)

[Nigel Marx]

I have two, a '95 Funduro ex-rental with 147,00km and a 2001 GS ex-rental with 80,000km on it. The older one I bought with 65,000km and rode the rest up myself, with only a waterpump replacement at 142,000km and about four sets of fork seals. I have had no problems with fork seals since I fitted gaiters. Why BMW didn't do that I will never know.

The newer one has done 15,000km for me without a part being thrown at it. I would say rental bikes would get fairly hard treatment, but you would hope they also get good maintenance too. I'm also sure that a travelers bike would get a harder time. I use them as they are designed for; lots of loaded up touring (two-up and we ain't little people!!), gravel, four wheel drive tracks and even riverbeds. I often don't spare the horses, and the older Funduro is about to be raced in the NZ BEARs (British, European and American racing) class.

Neither use oil, both are still nice to ride. I have three bigger bikes in the shed, which hardly ever turn a wheel now, because I enjoy the GS so much. Are they as reliable as some other bikes? Probably not as reliable as an XT600 Yamaha (but what else is!!) or a DR650, but they are way way more comfortable, especially two-up and more economical on fuel. They have to be more reliable than the BMW twins, from the stories of the many travelers who have stayed here. One lot even sent their GS twin home and bought a Funduro here in NZ to match the other one they were traveling with.

Of course YMMV.

Kind regards

Nigel in NZ

[leigh]

We sold my wifes F650GS before our Americas trip because of the reasons Ted describes, every trip I went on I met loads of people saying the same thing. When you are about to embark on a 25000 mile trip dealing with all the maintenence and repairs involved, ease of servicing and repair become VERY important!
She got it as her first bike after passing her test and loved it, but if you take a close look at it you wonder who designed and built it? Does not live up to the BMW legend in my opinion.
I'll take two old TTR,DR,XR,XT or the like thank you.

[mollydog]

Since no one chimed in on this ... I will.
BMW: Made In China.

Has a nice ring to it, no?

[Walkabout]

Originally Posted by tedmagnum

Fuel pump disintegrating on a new 650,
Regulator failing on new 650,
Head bearings shagged after 12,000 miles,
Fork seals leaking after only road use,
Ignition electrics dropping contact
ABS failing

"Fuel pump and reg/rec" sounds just like an Africa Twin or a VFR to me. Definitely a Honda thing.

Head bearings: could be a Suzuki, straight out of the factory?

Fork seals: what have the bikes been doing, where have they been, who was riding them and how hard?

I am not saying that Beemers are faultless, far from it, but there is no "well-based" study I know of that gets clear statistics on this subject.
(A survey of bikes in the manner that is done for cars).

The best equivalent that I have seen on here is the thread in the KTM forum which tells it, warts and all.

[mollydog]

Edde, when I spoke of BMW dealers I meant the info I've gotten first hand from very long term BMW dealer owners and mechanics that I've ridden with for 20 years.

[skip]

Hi
I've been reading this thread about how bad the F650 is, so i thought i'd add my views, a bike is only as good as it is maintaned and on a long trip most bikes get a hard time especially if taken off road, service times are sometimes stretched, the more complex the bike the more it needs looking after, the F650 is a very good bike but it takes a lot more work to look after than say an XT600 or DR650 which are both air cooled and have very basic engines, the F650 is a water cooled bike (nothing wrong with this) and so you have water pump , pipes and radator that can all fail. Injection and engine managment systems on the BMW are a lot harder to work on and oftern need main dealer help. But this is not to say that any other bike is better or worse, i;ve traveled with one couple who had never had a problem with there F650 since the day they borght it new.
Ever one choses there bike for a different reason but at the end of the day the more complex the machine the more you need to keep a check on it as there is more to go wrong. I will say that i have never owned a F650 and this is just a general observation, i don't wan't to start a big debate on the merrits off the F650. Skip