Well done !

As previously noted - the GS is no lightweight. It's academically close to the GS and actually weighs more than a KTM 950/990 with significantly less power and very marginal suspension off-road.

I use a very accurate fish scale - total weight now just under 20kgs of gear, parts, tools, etc.

My plan is to do far too many kms this summer. It's about the last way I like to travel but time demands cannot be changed and neither can Siberian nor high-mountain weather !

My KTM ADV is just about 200kgs with fuel and gear. Soft bags, no racks, elimination of OEM battery, 2-1 exhaust, etc - a lot of weight has come off.

It's STILL heavy and at the same time lighter and more composed (by leagues) than either a GS1200 or GS800 offroad on which I will be alot, alone.

But once I am hemmed in by roads again . . . a much lighter bike would be awful for the necessarily long distances.

I'm with Walter, philosophically - pick the bike for 90% of your riding. But on rides eclipsing 10,000kms, nevermind RTW, that's not much guidance. 90% of time ? 90% of distance ? 90% of difficulty ?

So . . . from the backpacking community - take the smallest pack you can live with because you'll ALWAYS fill it.

I think the 950 is about as small as could be done (!) for my current ridiculous goal(s) . . . but I still wish I could find another 30 kgs to remove. Especially in the middle of Siberia, solo.

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Orange, it's the new black.

It's such a grey area isn't it...

So.. Pick a bike that you do 90% of your riding on !!! In the U.K. I do 99% tarmac.... So should I ride a fireblade to Siberia ??

I know that's not what you meant but here's my point.....

I love to travel with a lightweight bike which is more off-road capable. And 95% of my travelling is on paved roads....Sure, I'm stuck doing 70 mph on the highways but that's always a bonus in hindsight. Going slower, you really do smell the roses. But that's not my point either.

If you have a smaller, lightweight bike then you aren't restricted physically or mentally when you have an unforeseen opportunity.

Eg... When I was in Africa most of the best places to camp or stay were down on the beaches, on lake-sides or up on mountain tracks. On the map, all of these places are close to well paved roads.

I met so many riders on big, heavy bikes that couldn't/wouldn't make that short 5 mile detour of off-road and they ended up staying at the stinky hostel in the next village.

Their bikes were capable but it would of been a stressful challenge and not easy and after a long day on the road. The mental challenge of a daunting dirt track on a 260KG bike just didn't appeal. It wouldn't have to me either.

Blasting off down an unknown dirt path on a 650 Single ain't no bike deal is it !!!

It would be the theme............. All the big GS'S parked up outside hostels/hotels watching SKY News in a hotel bar and all the lightweight knobbley tyred bikes were sleeping on the lakeside, looking at the stars with the sound of hippos grunting in the distance.

THAT'S my point...

Even if you plan to do most of your trip on tarmac (and most of us do), having the bike that can EASILY do rough tracks and sand really opens up your possibilities to experience the things that you left home see.

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Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

Well, people have different opinions but I think most of the best places in Africa are far from paved roads. They might be days, and some times weeks from the paved roads. Personally I stay away from the paved roads as much as possible. That's when range is necessary. Chris Scott once mentioned that fuel is range and water is time, I like both.

BTW:
I'm leaving to the southern parts of Norway now and will be offline for a few days. My family is in a car and will be there in four hours, I will drive the backroads and gravel and will use 12 hours. Maybe a lot more if this night extreme weather (called Geir) have messed up my route.
It's far better with 12 hours of fun then four hours of boredom.

I don't need to carry water this time

This reminds me of earlier discussion which questioned the positions of the centres of gravity of bikes: I would fully expect that the CG of the big bike is lower than that of the 800, but I don't recall any definitive answer to the query.

A low CG assists greatly for those who find it easy to pick up a dropped 1200GS, not even taking into account that the 1200 bike doesn't go over fully onto it's side (in a simple drop, discounting more major spills) but just lies there on one of the pots. With some of the massive crash bars/outriggers that can be fitted to these the bike may not be at much more than 45 degrees to the horiz.

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Dave

For once I agree, there are a few plusses between the R12GS(A) and the F8GS(A); chain drive (can be fixed), fuel economy (still not in xC land, but close), and as I've had both the R12GS and GSA I still find that the F8GS is sooo much easier to drive. Some people might be unhappy with the std. wind protection, but for me it works, if I can't hang on, then I'm just driving to fast - and I can stil do +800km days.

But you're absolutely right, coming from the R12GSA (a year later) I still find the F8GS easier to driver, but looking at the xC standing next to an F8GS(A) one see the difference, and I understand your arguments. The xC is a pure 50/50 bike....

The problem is that BMW decided to stop making small interesting bikes like the xC, which makes the next option the F8... or a different brand.



Casper

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www.exilepixel.com
www.c-note.dk

They're actually planning on making smaller capaity bikes

From: BMW Partners With India’s TVS to Build New Motorcycle Series - Bloomberg

Thats exactly what you will read.

As I said earlier, Joe is a marketing pro. So you will read that its not the bikes fault

You will read that its not cause the bike was too heavy.

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Shame......

It would be nice to hear a possitive travel report about the F800 that you could actually believe one day.

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Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

Absolutely...... And they're the places you will very rarely see anything apart from 4x4's and smaller off-road capable bikes.

I wouldn't drag a fat 1200cc bike too far from the road. I just can't be bothered with it. It's no fun and usually an accident waiting to happen.

Kudos to those who can be bothered.

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Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

Well in fairness to the bike, it seems quite tough. All the reports I have read and seeing it on the trails riding next to me, the F800s can take a beating. But its just damn heavy. They cut 30 odd kgs off the 1150 when they made the 1200 ... And I can see at least 30 kgs they could cut off the F800 if they made the effort. The engine alone could easily be 15+ kgs lighter. It weighs 65 kgs !!

I know the Swedish engineers at Highland build V-twin engines in up to 1150 cc, that weigh sub 40 kgs. USHighland Metric Engine Platforms for Builders, Manufacturers and Consumers. A parallel twin is potentially lighter than a V-twin. So its not exactly asking for the moon to ask BMW (who are capable of building Formula 1 engines in house) to spend a few days with Rotax and make their 800cc parallel twin no more than 50 kgs.

The weight of the bike is its unredeemable adventure liability - you can change the crappy rims. You can change the crappy suspension. But there is nothing you can do about its lardiness. Right from the early off road stages it appears Joe had to scale back on the ambition of the off-road mission across Eurasia, and took asphalt across Ukraine, Russia and Kazakhstan instead. To me, that can only have been caused by either too much weight for offroad and/or unpleasant handling offroad. Almost surely both.

As for believability, any bike comments from a factory sponsored ride is going to have its credibility limitations, some more than others:
Heres a KTM couple from Mattighofen (KTM employees on a KTM backed trip, plugged on the KTM website) on new 1190s having arrived in UlaanBaatar last month.
"we are extremely proud of our two KTM 1190 Adventure Rs... The bikes have been nothing short of ideal"

And if you believe that, I have some fine swamp land to sell you.

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No ... Pick a bike that is compatible with the hardest parts of your planned trip, even if that hard part is just 5% of your trip.

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Question to all: How many of you weigh all your gear and know exactly the weight you are carrying?[/QUOTE]

I use a 1975 R90/6, it weighs around 218 KG with around about 50% full tank.

Last year I weighed all my gear after coming back from a 6 week trip and was really shocked to see that I was carrying an extra 100 lbs weight! So I have switched from Krausers to Enduristan Monsoon panniers, with a single seat and have decided to be much more carefull about what stuff I take. I'm off again next week so may have time to do some weighing before I go, idea is to get luggage down to under 80ibs.

Changing from Ikon to Maxton shock absorbers saved 4ilbs alone!

Charles