I especially like the "....what is really important"
part. You cannot be proved wrong ....you are clearly correct.

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Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!

Bashing? Maria is in no way bashing, she is simply reacting to her R E A L I T Y, which is well documented here.

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Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!

Another great review of the DR650 Mollydog which would look good on that thread, but, as a check on reality for the UK, I have just looked at UK ebay for a DR650.

There are a total of 2 available right now: the 1991 bike has 30000 miles declared while the 1992 model has an unknown mileage and number of previous owners. That's it, nothing else available among about 5800 bikes for sale (that's 0.034% of bikes offered for sale).

I've looked at the dealers' lists before (haven't bothered today) and the situation can be similar with them but with higher asking prices.

If Maria wants to bring one back from South Amer, fair enough but the new twin cyl F650GS will be in the showrooms next weekend = 71 HP on tap for an asking price of £5300.
All I am saying is that things move on.

Still off topic: I have read quite a bit of derogatory comment about BMW dealerships in other countries (in here and elsewhere), but in the UK, on average, everything else being equal, blah blah, I believe that they are considered to be better than your average back street bike shop - top dollar prices yes, but good service and attention to the customer: there may be an exception, but that is about what I hear from BMW owners here in the UK.

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Dave

That's a nice Blackbird (Super CBR1100XX?) - now that is a bike and a half!

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Dave

Planning a long trip, plan for the worst. Ride a BMW where spares are available. Don't ride a BMW where a breakdown entails struggling with Airport Customs. My Honda 125 has taken me from Mexico to Mexico via Tierra del Fuego. The clock will pass the 40,000 Ks mark short of the US border. No mechanical problems, a few falls and a broken leg through being run down from behind by a big truck. I was riding on ice so the accident was my fault for being an idiot. What would I change? The seat! I hanker after one of those big leather seats with a back support. Power? Yes, a little more. I am due to cross China next year and am considering a 200 trail bike (probably Honda again), with the ratio changed for cruising and a comfortable seat. What ever, have fun...
home

This is new to me; I didn’t know that a lot of BMW parts (except Xchallenge) were made in China. What parts are you talking about?

MollyDog,
Don't selectively take my quotes out of context...reread the point I was making in this post and EVERY post I've made on this thread: BMW's made since 2002 have faced questions of durability IRRELEVANT of model(F650, 1150/1200 GS), etc. Going to Chinese manufactured parts may actually help in an odd way...

IF the Chinese get clear cut instructions on design, quality expectations, and a defined manufacturing process...they can produce very high quality stuff...look at the IBM Thinkpad for example...IBM controlled every aspect of the process for years and produced some the most durable laptops out there.

Relative to the DR, reread my post again...every 5 years a "variety" of things have changed on the DR...and in total during that time period they can be considered significant, depending on the purchaser of that vehicle.
How often have these DR's consistently seen 50k-100k miles...and still going strong? I'm curious...

Its unfortuntate what's happening to Maria and I've kept up with her trip, BUT her bike is post 2002 and she's choosing BMW dealers part of the time. As I've said in prior posts as have many many others, having a pleasant experience with one nowadays is an exceptional experience. Luckily, I've got a couple good local ones...I see on rare occasion...which is why I ride an old K75

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edde
93 BMW K75s
www.motoedde.com

I'm not at all surprised to see some BMW bashing - I think they're the company that has labeled itself as THE great adventure motorcycling company and perhaps the bikes don't really live up to it for various reasons these days.

My experience has been limited to a 40000 mile Americas tour on an Africa Twin. Not the whole picture by any means but I regularly noticed that in the various bike shops I visited to get my AT serviced I the other travelers with BMWs were having repairs carried out.

On the whole there was a feeling of disgruntlement among these riders at the service provided by local BMW dealerships - some bikes had warranty cover too. The output shaft seal seems like an inexpensive item that a dealer should stock and yet I recall three occasions where riders were left high and dry waiting for parts to be shipped from Europe.

More recently I look at the bikes Ewan and Charlie (and Claudio) have used. Hardly inspirational reliability and something that the BMW marketing guys would be cringing about. That said I would have been interested to have seen how they would have got on with the KTMs.

I want a motorcycle that I can ride for 50000 miles anywhere I want without doing anything other than routine service work. I'm not sure BMW can do that anymore. It's interesting looking through the Bike tech forums to see which bikes are best suited to this adventure motorcycling lark...... they're not German.

Hi Simon,
Congrats again on a fantastic ride!
Fpr China take a look at this:
Silk Road - which bike? - ADVrider

Go to post #4

Good travels
Patrick

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Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!

Somehow I feel its true.

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Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!

You should be in politics Edde

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Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!

Ok guys...

My thread title wasnt thought out as well as it should of been and my objective was to start this thread as a place that BMW F650 owners could tell me about their experiences...

Sadly, y opinion of the 650´s is only getting worse.

Im at Dakar Motos waiting for pollos birthday party and some spares and many a F650 owner is turning up and passing thorugh etc...

Nearly everyone of them is cursing the bike. All with failing ABS, leaking seals, water pumps knackered and the headlamp subframe breaking through fatigue. Bits and pieces breaking and falling off..

Now of course, all bikes suffer and have their faults but not to this extent...

I am prepared to take the flak for saýing this the F650 is NOT a good bike. I wouldnt touch one with a shi*ty stick.

Thier only saving grace seems to be comfort and good fuel consumpion (which is easily rivalled by a Vstrom or Transalp)

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Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

Well, I’m still pretty sure that the F650 has practically no parts from China. So I feel that the statement is false.
The X-serie will be (or is) produced in China and the G450 in Taiwan but that doesn’t matter for the quality of the old 650.
I agree that the parts from China can be as good (or bad) as parts from Europe – it’s BMWs quality-control (or lack of) which decides this.
It should be interesting to see how the new F650 and F800 will do. I’m afraid that they will not be as good as the old airheads, time will show.



I think we are getting closer to the real issue here. Yes, BMW is more expensive then the Suzuki but it also lasts a lot longer.
When a BMW has 100kkm on the clock you can still sell it for 30-60% of what you gave for it without doing a major overhaul first. That makes owning a BMW cheaper then most other bikes.
A friend of mine will start to rebuild a 650 with 140kkm on the clock. He will not rebuild the engine because cylinders and rings are still within tolerances and the cylinder head looks good. He will rebuild it because he wants a custom built bike with great suspension and a 1000km petrol range.

For me it’s out of the question to buy a bike with an estimated lifespan less then 150kkm. My current bike has 193kkm on the clock (but it was rebuilt at 180kkm).

I think Patrick has summarised the difference between the BMW and Suzuki 650 bikes very acccurately and IMHO his views of the respective customers [and the way they treat their bikes] is spot on as well .

BMW charges a premium for their bikes based on their "perceived quality" , sadly this seems to be lacking these days .
Suzuki markets their bikes on the basis of "value for money" , they seem to do rather well .

Suzuki has extended warrantys that will match BMW .

It has been suggested that there are more BMW s enroute at the moment than Suzukis , which may well be true , but it's very hard to be accurate and I would suggest that ,if it is true,it's because BMWs are more readily available on the European market .

Resale values will only be significant for lightly used bikes , any bike that has gone RTW will be shagged out and worth very little .
If you are borrowing money to buy your bike and trading it in every couple of years then resale will be important to you .

All bikes have faults and a sympathetic, knowledgeable rider will be able to work around them. I think what has let BMW down ,in this respect , is that less skilled and knowledgeable riders have bought expensive BMWs expecting them to perform flawlessly .
This can cause riders to be overcritical .

Old buggers like me , who prefer older simpler bikes , would hardly give a second thought to fixing some of the "problems" that seem to cause some people so much anguish .

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Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light. - Spike Milligan
"When you come to a fork in the road ,take it ! When you come to a spoon in the road ,take that also ."

Ted,
As quastdog mentioned, why should they bother with such preconceptions?

I did have some hopes that this thread could bring some objective feedback on the topic, but I have now given up on that aspiration. As a contrast, there is a KTM thread that is streets ahead of this one in meeting this aim, for the 640 Adv:-
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...lems-list-9345
It contains information from those who own, or have owned, these bikes, unlike the majority of posts on this thread.

Regrettably, I think that this "crap" thread has missed the chance - it needs to lie fallow (die in the ditch basically) and, in due course, some more structured, objective feedback may be available:-
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...-threads-33390
IMO, this development will be quite important for the HU webpages: hopefully it will succeed.

For specific information about the F650 you could do worse than go to the chain gang (as referenced in an earlier post) or the UK equivalent:-
BMW F650 (UK)
Both of these have contributions from actual owners (or they are all bluffing!).

Lastly, while all the BMW F650GSs in South America are breaking down and providing grief for their owners, in the rest of the world they are doing just fine:-
Adventure.gs - The very best experience in motorcycling training and touring.
Just one more example of a real owner with specific feedback on his bike.

I hope those links help your mate to make up his mind.

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Dave