"I absolutely agree, with the reputation for unrelability the standard 1200 has only a fool would contemplate a trip to some out of the way destination without a motorad back up crew and diagnostic computer. Having said that, have BMW really designed the bike with a big trip in mind or is it more a bike to pose on.? LB. "


Different strokes for different folks. I am happy to be a guinea-pig and find out.

Walter

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www.TokyotoLondon.com

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i have no problem with anyone buying this bike,and really enjoying it good luck to you , but i am really looking forward to bmw doing a dakar type bike with the new paralell twin f800 engine ,

WOW what a bike!

Grant,
Is this means we can put pics on the regular HUBB topics and replays?

Y.

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Dare!
My ride from Dead horse to Ushuaia 2009 is at
www.harpatka.com
It's in hebrew but lots of pics and some translation

Yoni

I recognize that for solo adventure travel, this bike is clearly overkill, but I suspect that it will continue to be a strong seller for BMW, just as the GS 1100/1150/Adv. has been before.

I would have liked to see a closer relationship to the HP2, but can understand BMW's motivation in sticking with a formula that has been working well for them so far. Yes, if the GS650 works for you, you will not likely be in the market for a 1200. However if you are 2 up it might be a better option then another 'touring' bike.

The GS1200 continues to get favorable reviews in Moto mags world wide, and I'd be surprised if this new model is not an equally strong seller.

I've heard rumours of a GS650 replacement that is lighter then the existing model (but not based on the 800 twin - still a single). Anyone else?

I don't know of this reputation for unreliability you are referring to? I've got 60,000 km and no issues, my most reliable bike so far. There are several in Micapeak, advrider, and ukgsers which have had no issues. As with any bike they all have issues but the 12GS isn't more of a standout thna any other bike. The 12GS doesn't have this reputation, except perhaps amongst non-12GS owners.


[This message has been edited by SQD8R (edited 04 November 2005).]

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get off the cross, we need the wood

My 12GS was very reliable for the first three weeks then developed an electrical problem. Wollaston BMW had it for ten days trying to locate the fault and that was with the aid of a motorad diagnostic computer and fully trained mechanic. When I telephoned after a week to see if it was ready they asked for my registration number as they said they had three others in with various problems, one of which had a knackered final drive. This was in December last year and none of the bikes were early production models. This was my fourth a last BMW. I had a 650GS which was so bad, cutting out and not restarting, I got my money back and the 1150RT had a problem with the braking system and the clocks filled with water. All were brand new and I don't expect to have problems having spent the amount of cash BMW want for their products. I've owned 36 motorcycles and apart from the four BMW's and a KTM, all have been Japanese. Apart from a leaking fork seal on a VFR all the Jap bikes have been totally reliable. A transalp I bought used with 19K miles on it and 88K on it when I gave it to a friend was still going strong with 117K miles on the clock. The only parts used had been service items and a new cam chain at 88K. The VFR had done 57K when I PX'd it for the first Africa Twin which, inturn had 49K when I sold it on. The 12GS had less than 2K before it let me down. The 650GS, which I owned for four months but, was only in my actual possession for about a month (the rest of he time it was at the dealers while they attempted to rectify the fault) had done less than 1500 miles. The RT was three months old and had covered 5K miles before the braking system developed problems. The clocks were changed under warranty at the first service as they steamed up in heavy rain. Looking at UKGSer there have been quite a few owners with faults on their bikes. I read, with disbelief, owners that have had a number of faults but state they still think it's the best bike they've ever had. LB.

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\"Bon Chance\"

In contrast to your riding experiences I've had 3 Honda's from new. A VTR, RC51 and CBR600RR. The VTR was great over 30,000 km then traded for the Rc51 which seized a bearing @ 3,000 km and the CBR blew it's rad @ 15,000 km. Perhaps your experiences and mine are down to dealer prep considering mine were all from the same dealership and possibly your BMws were too. do these stories prove anything; nope, just what I said before, each bike has their issues. I'm guessing those ukgsers etal. who rate the 12GS still think it rocks despite the minor/major issues they have had simply because it is still their best bike ever, despite the issues.

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get off the cross, we need the wood

Why didn't they sacrifice some of that useless horsepower (for off road) boost torque, lower gear ratios, simplify the electronic engine management, loose more lard and fancy plastic bits.
I guess because BMW know as well as we do that most of these 'around the world' bikes will spend 99.9% of their life on tarmac. And it's more important to look better in brochure stats than than it is to perform in the real world.
Anyone heard any rumours of an affordable HPN coming soon?

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have fun with your helmet!

Is it heresy to say that my R100GSPD has been absurdly unreliable? New gearbox, driveshaft, brakes, rebuilt engine. The BMW approach seems to be to build the bike in the factory, and then completely rebuild it over the next 30,000 miles out in the field.

However they make up for this by:

1) expecting their bikes to be treated really badly, worse than any bike should ever be treated;
2) having an excelent warranty (keep renewing it, I was still getting parts replaced after 10 years);
3) having some excellent and generous dealerships (go for the dedicated bike dealers, not the car dealers who also do bikes).

I'm happy with the GS, and will buy another one day, although now that all of the problems with my R100 are sorted, I plan to wait another 10 years.

[This message has been edited by Roboyobo (edited 17 November 2005).]

I asked about an extended warranty for the 12GS and they quoted me £600 for an additional year!!! Obviously they don't have alot of faith in their own products. LB.

[This message has been edited by mcdarbyfeast (edited 17 November 2005).]

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\"Bon Chance\"

They just ask you a lot of money coz you just bought the new one Nowadays it's not just BMW offering pricy guarantee extention.

As for reliability: my old R1100GS took more than 17000km of abuse without any maintenane(!) in middle east the the hardest time august month with temperatures exceeding 45 degrees Celsius while the only jap Yamaha Super Tenere i saw in Iran stood in the corner of Hotel garage because it was broken down from the heat and the Italian professor who rided it got no help from locals and had to cancel his middle east trip. I Hooked up with a Norweigean riding R1200GS to China and had no problems after 20 000+ on the clock coming from Europe with NO MAINTENANCE on the bike. He's was an actor by the way and he rided the bike accordingly, i was amazed he hasn't crashed the bike yet but as he sayed: boxer GS is the most safe enduro there is with ABS and telelever. Not just the bike ideal, but it works if you want it to do so. My 1100 was written by Polish car driver and it was 100% till 60K (the bike was not even shown to the BMW service, all maintenance done by my own) bullet proof the best bike i've ever owned that i got another 1100. And even IF IT WAS UNRELIABLE some how i'd still ride the same one - the engine characteristics, the low grunt and centre of gravity the boxer has along with shaftdrive, telelever and ABS can't be replaced by any other one that brings the same smile into my face travelling with it.

All bikes broke down sooner or later anyway, mostly depending on owners riding style and technical knowledge of the bike. Having owned long term japs before my BMW i can tell this JAP vs EUR thing is mostly for paranoid people having very little technical knowledge about bikes in reality and only want to bash from jelousy (well yes, BMW is one of the most innovative motorcycle companyes on current date - whether you like them or hate them) or any non-empirical experiences any other strange reason.

Now everybody ride own machine and be happy, stop bashing things you never tryed really yourself would be my final word on this


[This message has been edited by Margus (edited 18 November 2005).]

Hello Alan,

i've been giving it a big thought on the same way. But i've come to conclusion BMW made it optimum: to make more torque you need to a) reduce the compression ratio (which is pointless on twin - it'll be too "fuzzy" revving and "quirky" like an airhead, bad fuel consumption (not modern and smooth!) to 1200cc twin with big pistons) or b) make piston's smaller but up/down travel bigger - the cilinders would grow too wide for boxer c) make flywheel more massive for centrifugal forces - it would make it too lazy revving and engine stopping force would be bad. d) some other EFI/valves methods (variable spark timing over revs etc) that usually make poor fuel consumption/emissions and the system too complicated. Good comparision would be Moto Guzzi Quota with traditional "down-tuned" EFI Guzzi engine for enduro-usage giving very low torque, but the amount of torque in numbers isn't sufficent for 1100cc engine and it runs around less than 20MPG fuel efficency.

Also compare it with a fact do you know any other same 1000cc range enduro having that amount of torque (115Nm) on that low 5500rpms? The boxer's "180 degrees big bang theory" how the force is applyed from pistons to crankshaft has it's advantages in terms of low down torque, EVEN IF the piston's up/down travel is relatively small and flywheel is relatively lightweight... So the engine breathes free (freely revving and rapid throttle response) and has the optimum torque spreaded all over the rpm range, typically 90% of the torque is usable from 3K rpm on oilhead boxer twins which is very good spec i think giving it a ideal traction on offroad. See the around 200kg wet weighting HP2 ridden by Simo Kirssi taking 2nd overall place on European Cross Country series of offroad race compeating with 80kg lighter single cylinder machines(!) The only real technical advantage the bike has this HUGE traction on straights and low COG to cope in the fast curves.

Having ridden R1200GS about few hundred kilometres on different type of roads i can say it's much more smoother than any oilhead 1100/1150GS i've every tryed. I personally think it's smoothness that makes people think there's no low-down torque, but there acctually is.

I'm not a salesman of bmw, rather big boxer enthusiast and 115Nm@5500 and 85 backwheel horsepower is more than sufficent. Not many similar bikes have Nm units in numbers more than HPs, so it really is torque oriented machine anyway.

Oh... And HPNs never go cheap, they are niche products afterall. Seen just one on eBay around 20 000EURos.

[This message has been edited by Margus (edited 19 November 2005).]

Are those panniers RTW quallity? I hope they are up to the standard Touratech quality and that they havn't been 'plasticized' like BMW likes to do... The mounts seem to be standard Zega mounts. Anyone?

I reckon this is a total waste of money and represents design driven as much by fahion as real practicality and versatility. Primarily it is too heavy and poorly suspended for serious off-roading. Check out Highland motorcycles who seem the only manufacturer concerned with building a big trailie with good suspension and reasonable weight. Of course it will be a fine road bike but then you are spoilt for choice by the Japanese if that's what you're after.

He you all BM freaks,

Last december I bought a GSA 1200 to replace my old GS 100 ... will be delivered end march, and i will have it in Africa end this year ... hope this will be as reliable as my good old 100GS ... 140.000 km without majort problems (same clutch !)
remember when BMW came in the 80's with the GS 80/100 everybody was shouting that this was a much to heavy bike for offroad ...
I was enjoying a standard GS1200 on a Taiwan tour dec 2004, in parallel with a GS1150 ... what a diff between both! If its only half this +diff between GS and GSA, that be great ...
About GSA paniers, I was told that the Touratech will be available shortly , may be a better choice than originals as those are quite expensive ...
Do anyone have infos about this ?
norbert