This device may be of use to some; it can be retrofitted to most bikes and advice sought from the makers.



Basically, it is a regulator/rectifier with an integrated capacitor. The reg/rec is a common point of failure in the charging system as the lack of charge to start the engine when the main/chassis battery is flat. I havn't tested it and advice should be sought from the makers but the capacitor may hold sufficient current to operate the FI system when the main battery can't. It also has circuitry which switches of the lights until the engine (and charging system) begins to operate.

Boyer Bransden Electronics Ltd

Boyer Bransden Electronics Ltd

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Snetterton, about 1973. 1000cc class. (Can't use kick start).
McCrank is No. 26, Norton Commando.

Pull back against compression, even with a twin.

Looks like all eyes are on the starter, so flag not dropped yet. (My dad took these photos, have no memory of the particular meeting).


The accepted benchmark used to be - 3 good strides, then bum on seat and drop clutch in one action - left foot on left footrest.
Or 4 strides if 3 REALLY wasn't enough.


Bum is on seat, but a slow start - No. 52 in front already has leg over....

I thought there might be videos to find of push starts for Manx Nortons and the like. But all I could find was this, which shows it OK I think.
Suzuki Racing in the early 60s - Part 1 - YouTube
Small 2-strokes need a lot of running to get going.

On to the TT, 1960s:
Suzuki Racing in the early 60s - Part 1 - YouTube
Competitors and spectators start the fortnight like this.
Some on-bike footage as well - my, how that circuit has changed!

A good tutorial here:
Suzuki Racing in the early 60s - Part 2 - YouTube

Another lesson here:
Suzuki Racing in the early 60s - Part 2 - YouTube
All small 2-strokes

Back to the original question - I've found over the years that my Aprilia Mille requires a good battery just to boot the computer. If I connect up a battery that isn't fully charged, the computer still boots (lights flash and needles jump). And the starter motor turns on the button, but no engine start. The computer hasn't booted properly.
Connect a fully charged battery, and all is OK.

So my experience of an EFI bike, you definitely need a good battery to start without use of the starter motor.
A lot of competition riders these days remove their starter motors (heavy) and use rollers to start, but always with a good battery I think.

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TTR250 - London to Cape Town

Another factor to consider is whether your battery is just flat, or whether one of the (6) cells has died. If it is the latter then you may find that your bike isn't going anywhere no matter how much you push/pull/bump/jump start it.

I had this problem 5 years ago in Siberia on my EFI Burgman 650. The bike would not continue running once it had been jumpstarted. I still haven't fully determined the reason for this but I believe it was either the fact that the fuel pump required a minimum of 12V to operate or that there was some clever programming in the ECU that told the injectors they could only operate with that voltage.

Indicators, headlight, horn etc, would operate but the bike would not start until it saw at least 12V (battery showed around 10.8). I was fortunate enough to be able to borrow a 12V lower amperage battery which got me from Chita, to Irkutsk, where I was able to purchase a replacement.

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Garry from Oz - powered by Burgman

Kind of an old post, but do you recall which gear you put the bike in?

A couple of years ago I managed to bump start my V-Strom in first gear after several unsuccessful tries in second or third.

A few months ago I tried again to bump start the bike, in both second and first. I wasn't able to do it and had to pull out my jumper cables.

Jamie

My bike is not EFI, just carbs - Honda Tornado XR250... it has an electronic start only...

... if the battery is completely dead, could this bike be started with a hillstart or run and jump? I never understood the mechanics of hill starting - can anyone enlighten me?

Cheers!
Rtw

A Tornado would be easy to jump or hill start. Nice and light and old school - the golden era of jump starting, as shown above.

If the job of the kickstart or electric start is to spin the engine into life, then jump/hill starting is achieving the same thing by using the energy of the moving bike - wheel turning the chain turning the gearbox and so the piston - to fire it up. That is assuming the motor is generating enough charge to make a spark. With no efi to run, I am sure XR is

A good way to practise would be with a warm engine rolling down a quiet hill somewhere.
Whatever gear you're in, pull the clutch in and hold it in, then kill the engine with the kill button on the right bar - revs drop to zero but ignition is still on.
Bike is freewheeling. Now gradually let out the clutch, the whirring gearbox will engage with the clutch which will spin up the piston. Bike speed will hesitate a bit, then fire up and run as before. Now, see yourself doing that from a standing start with a cold engine. That is a hill start.

Lesson 2 is learning to do the same with a run and a jump on the flat. Not always so easy, especially with tall, big singles that are cold, as shown earlier, but a good skill to learn.

Ch

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Morocco Overland 4 pre-order for Xmas • Trans Morocco Trail

Yup.....

All you are doing with a push start is turning the engine over , like a starter motor would..

No battery = No starter motor.

The starter motor turns the engine over which turns the generator which produces the juice for a spark plug..

Pushing a bike whilst in gear will turn the engine...

Just like a running engine, in gear, will turn the back wheel.

Simple enough ??

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Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

Following Chris Scott's instructions you might need to add this bit.

Once free wheeling you will have to reset the kill switch on most bikes for it to work.......

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Regards Tim

Learning my craft for the big stuff, it won't be long now and it's not that far anyway

Allow me to describe an alternative:


Find yourself a decently large shaft drive touring bike with a car type clutch and a marginally unfit 40-year old willing to try bump starting on a hot day. Push the bike to the top of a nice little hill and have a quick fag while waiting for the pain in your chest and pins and needles in your left arm to go off.


Put the bike in third gear and holding the clutch in gently push off down the hill. Wait until you are up to third gear sort of speed and let the clutch out. There will now be an odd whirring noise as the tractor like gearbox slips gently into the false neutral between second and fifth. Pull the clutch in and stomp heavily on the gear lever until you get the expensive crunching noise that means you have selected one or more gears. Drop the clutch again. As the back wheel locks solid and the whole bike lurches towards the middle of the road pull the clutch in again and steer towards the kerb. Coast to a halt in the middle of the busy junction at the bottom of the hill.


Nimbly hop off the bike, disengage your boot from the top box and heave the monster from it's back destroying 45 degree angle to roughly upright and push to a nicer location. Have another fag and wait for the symptoms to go off again.


Now either repeat with the ignition on or fit a better battery!


Andy

The moral to Andy's story.. Keep your Tornado.. ( and look after your battery)

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Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

Having never personally having to push start a bump start an EFI I wonder if this is due to the ignition circuit activating the priming function of the fuel pump.

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Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

That sounds remarkably like my experience of being 27 years old and trying to start antique Enfields at 5,200m


Ted,

Yep got that I think! So even if I removed the battery and threw it away, I could still start my bike? If you can bump start a bike like that without a battery, then how to killswitches/ignitions work? Do they break a circuit which then prevents charge reaching the sparkplug/s?

Depends on the bike but these days, 99% of bikes need the battery there as part of the circuit.

Your ignition IS a switch. And yes, they break the circuit. They prevent or allow the flow of electricity in a circuit.

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Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

Most of TWB's technique is par for the course with bump starting anything much over 250cc - in my experience anyway. The best way round it is to pay the bunch of school kids that often gather whenever you stop to push. All you do is imperiously sit on the bike and yell at them to push faster while deciding when to let the clutch out. Worked for me a few times