Has anyone got any tips for camping in freezing tempuratures in a Low Alpine setting. I'm planning to go to the Elephant Rally in 2008 and judging by the pictures the camp site can be up to 2-3ft deep in snow.

I was wondering about the effects on my tent (Lightwave 4 season Trek1) and pegging it down etc. Whether to use an extra groundsheet. Ive got 2 Snugpack sleeping bags a summer Softie and an Autumn bag that expands to take the other inside. However in cold moist UK conditions the bags can get a fair amount of condensation. they are not down bags so being wet isn't a major issue normally but at -18C I presume it will.

The tent can occasionally get condensation on the outer skin too.

I was wondering also about storing food and water () aswell and what effects my propane stove might experience.

The lowest temperatures i've been in is minus 11 about 7 years ago before I moved to Oz so I'm a bit green in what's best to wear to stay warm all day round since I don't have central heating in the tent to come back to.

Any constructive help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

G

hi again!
a groundsheet will work well, but the bulk of people buy a bale of hay from one of the roadside sellers on the way in, couple of euro's I believe. well worth it, dig a hole in the snow, spread the straw, pitch your tent, pile snow around it to keep it down. peg it down, then compact the snow over the peg to hold it in place.
It makes a huge amount of sense to get there early, as in arrive wed/thurs at the latest. by friday, you will struggle to find a pitch within 1/2 mile of the road. I was one of the earliest arriving on tues to a pristine site (a bit too early), they dont really want people turning up too early, but for a brit traveling down, they are fine.
condensation isn't too much of a problem, as it usually stays below zero during the day, I say usually, but there have been some warm elefants, with a total mudbath!
You will find the outer of the sleeping bag will ice up, so better with synthetic than down, as I found the foot end of the bag got a little damp.
I wouldn't bother with a gas stove, propane may reluctantly work, but petrol stoves rule. There are imbiss snack stalls on site, and they aren't silly money, same goes for gluwein, which goes down (and up) a treat.
Food and WILL freeze, it's funny watching grown men, sitting around a fire with cans of on sticks.
As far as clothing goes, my choice was norgie thermals, ski trousers(with the snow clip on the front to the boot), several layers of fleecies, and an XXL goretex fabric jacket with armour.
Best boots are goretex military combats, (brit ones better soles than the german para's) 2 sizes too large with 2 pairs of good socks.
Good mountaineering gloves, goretex, with leather palms, and a good fit. you wont need to spend big money on most of the clothing, BUT buy the bestest gloves you can afford.
Snugpac/brett harris of silsden are brilliant for clothing, ring them, ask nicely, go down and they will let you see all the military seconds, odd colours, but half price and quality kit.
Why don't you visit me in Skipton, and see the stuff I use?
- the above kit has functioned down to riding at -36c, And I'm a tight arsed Yorkshireman, the fleecies came from oxfam, and the outdoor shop on skipton highstreet are doing a very good deal on some quality ski pants, ideal for the job!
You can expect to see -20 to -30 onsite if it is a cold rally overnight, and upto zero during the day.

__________________
Harley Davidsons,
The most effective way of turning petrol into noise without the side-effect of horsepower

The elephant is my favourite rally (I've done it three times!) and not one to be taken lightly. Make sure ALL your kit (riding, sleeping etc) is up to the task as it can (does) get quite cold. If you can, get there early (thursday evening if poss) as all the best places get taken up very quickly. Take a small shovel and dig down to some solid ground or at least to solid snow before putting your tent up. I don't think your stove will work but you can always build a fire or befriend some Germans. The global currency of alcohol helps here and before you know it, you'll be best of friends and eating their food and drinking gluhwein! They are great people and very friendly.

So, just make sure your kit is good stuff and just enjoy yourself. The idea of the elephant is to improvise and enjoy yourself despite the climate.

If you have a good depth of snow you can "peg" your guys down using 12" sticks. Lift some snow up, put the stick through the guy and drop the stick in the hole. Cover with snow and stamp on it. This should hold quite well as long as it remains below freezing.

A couple of hints.

Dig down to the solid ground if you can.

If you cant get your steaks into solid ground, take some nylon or other type bags with you, fill with snow then bury them into the snow and stamp down. The other option is to attach rocks to your tie downs or even large branches and bury them

Take TWO ground pads for extra insulation. Most body heat is lost through the contact with the ground. An air mattress does not count since there is too much air between you and the grounf for your body to heat up.

dress in layers. Take layers off as you warm up. If you exert yourself to the point of sweating then when you relax the mointure next to you will make you very cold and hypothermia can happen fact.

Keep hydrated. Dehydration is a bigger problem than in the heat at times.

Take a bag buddy along or find one there. Well it does help I hear.

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John

That's really good advice guys. Thanks again Joe. I'll probably see you on sat/sun barring a disaster at work on friday night.

I've often regretted taking the stove and food preparation equipment as it has been under used on most trips with either cooked/prepared food available locally cheaper than buying the ingredients or the need to warm up/cool down in a Maccy Ds or BK. Hand dryers are the best.

I wondered what all the straw was doing in the Elephant rally pics. I thought it might be to feed that cow who's head ended up unceremoniously toping the bady improvised body of a snowman. Nice.

As for taking alkeehol I might stash a bottle of Scotlands finest in a safe place as a means of A) Keeping warm and B) as currency when I run out of Euros.

A pair of salopetes it is then and I might try and score my mates NorthFace down jacket. He wont be needing it fir the next 2 years. He's in Quatar. I've got the Para boots but the German models which the soles are just about to wear out on. Fit like slippers though.Got my bags from the guys at the factory shop in Silsden roughly half price. I prefer down clothing to fleece coz I've got poor circulation and am relatively cold blooded and wiry. Down is always hotter for me.

What about washing and personal hygenie in these temps? Or is it a case of being smelly is the least of your problems?

I've got a large green tarp that i use as a protective groundsheet. This usually keeps the condensation down too. I'll bring it along.
Is there a tried and tested method for keeping the sleeping bags dry?

I just need somewhare to put all this stuff now. Anyone selling a sidecar outfit for a Sportie? :-)

G

Glad you found the factory in silsden!
Beware the worn paraboots, no good on a icy slope, which is pretty much the whole rally site. You can buy elastic thingies with metal studs that fit over the boots, then you should be fine. better still buy some newer ones that are at least 2 sizes too big. the ride down can be a little chilly.
Don't worry about washing, under all the clothes you wont notice it, best thing to do is book a night at a B&B in germany the night after you leave, dry the kit, have a bath, then return home.
unless it goes above zero, you can air your bag during the day to reduce moisture, in the sun (hopefully) the bag will dry due to the very low humidity.
You will have no problems bagging a place at someones fire, the whole place is unbelievably friendly. I suggest you visit the polish crowd, the spirits arrive in a 5 gallon drum, they even fed me on roast wild boar....

__________________
Harley Davidsons,
The most effective way of turning petrol into noise without the side-effect of horsepower

Sounds like i need.........

a) plenty of layered clothing

b) good pair of boots (mini crampons for ice???)

c) double thick groundsheet under the tent

d) a small folding spade/shovel

e) BOTH my sleeping bags

f)some heavy duty tent pegs/rocks/sticks/snow bags etc

g)spirits ie whisky not

h)air the sleeping bags during sunlight hours

i) have fun

Cheers for all your advice

G