I'm wondering about splashing the cash and investing in an Arai CT-F which could be says to be the best (or worst) of both worlds.


Arai's theory is that the enhanced cheek pieces provide safety in all but a tiny few of accidents. That is of course the theory, how it plays out on practice, who knows?

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Holy Smoke, thats freakin ugly eh!!
A flip up lid is a good shout for a lot of situations but yeah they're heavy and compromised.
I've ridden 8hrs in torrential rain in a piss-pot with only safety glasses and a buff on my mush- at the end of it I was suicidal and looked like I'd just had a chemical peel- so an open face for touring is a no-go.
I always end up reverting to my tried and tested Shoei XR1000 with a pinlock insert.

Your nose should be behind the visor which will flex back over your chin. Yet another variation which defies classification, you can't compare that to a ****pot made of leather and cork worn with war surplus goggles that lost some circuit racer his looks in 1970.

The chin section of my Fly Racing lid makes so much noise I'd view the risk to my hearing far greater than the risk to my chin with a jet style. It also proved to be a disaster for misting over the winter, worst of both worlds. . The colour (bright yellow) is good though and as a summer lid it is nice and cool.

Andy

Its hardly the end of the story.

I have come off my bike hundreds of times. Hundreds. Not once has my helmet ever touched the ground. NOT ONCE.

Automatic reaction is to put your arms out and turn your face, You might break wrists, arms, elbows, collarbones as a result. But thats nothing to do with helmet choice. I have gone thru dozens of sets of gloves, and a had many an elbow patch repair on my jackets ... all from high speed off road offs. Thats from automatic reaction of arms coming out before you hit the ground.

I see track riders coming off all the time as well ... high speed asphalt skating down the road ...

Never seen one faceplant ... they all skid on their asses. Never saw one skidding endlessly down the track on the front of his helmet.

I think you are totally oversimplifying the story and either not understanding or misrepresenting what actually happens when someone comes off a motorcycle.

There may be the rare case where a motorcyclist has an accident and damages his face when wearing an open faced helmet. But the number of motorcycle offs where the result would be different from an open faced helmet vs a full faced helmet would be a fraction of a percent.

Some motorcycle accidents would have the rider faring better if the rider was wearing a bulletproof vest too ... does that mean everyone who doesnt is a redneck?

Most motorcycle accidents the rider would have been better off in a Volvo!

The whole point of riding a motorcycle is to get a richer experience of travel, while accepting its a higher risk activity than volvoing. I accept its a higher risk wearing an open faced helmet than a full face, but I get a better return from travelling that way. A richer experience. At the end of the day, if I wanted to be safe, I would sell the bike and drive a Volvo, and not go tearing across Siberia and Mongolia at high speeds off road, on two wheels, with an open faced helmet.

I also accept that while its a higher risk, its useful to realistic and honest with yourself about quantifying and qualifying that risk. Saying "if you skate down the road your face your nose is going to be grated" clearly does not correlate with my hundreds of times going skating down the road.

Obviously its up to the individual how much risk he or she wants to take vs how much he or she wants to get out of it. But I will say clearly (and I think I speak for all the open faced riders here) that the reason riders ride with open face helmets is because they do get a richer travel and adventure experience by doing it that way.

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I think Arai have done just about everything they can to make the safest non-full-face helmet possible short of giving it a chin-piece and calling it a Tour X.



As you can see, the visor covers the entire face if you happened to land smack on it it would indeed deform to meet your chin, but as Walter points out the natural instinct is to protect your face so even a small turn of the head will result in the cheek-pieces touching down first.

We can thrash out the pros and cons of helmet styles till the cows come home, what I think, is good to see is that manufacturers are spending thousands of hours and a considerable budget making whatever choice as safe as possible.

Of course I do now wonder whether the Arai has created a helmet shape so bizarre and alien looking as to negate a lot of the positive effects of other people you meet being able to see your face.

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Until recently I was very anti open faced helmets until someone pointed out that with an open faced helmet you have more visibility so it may well prevent you being in an accident in the first place. I had a nasty off with an open faced helmet whilst out green laning a while ago and I instinctively leaned my head over to protect my face so the side of my helmet got all the impact. As the hubby said:
Sent from my MB525 using Tapatalk 2

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www.mudandknobblies.co.uk

IMHO, safety factors in helmet design:

1. Vision: can you see what might hit you or does the misted up letterbox on your head give you the same vision as a U-boat captain in an old movie called "Fog in the Channel"?

2. Comfort: After your ride can you function as well as at the start or is the pain across your forehead demanding aspirin, the ringing in your ears wanting a lie down in a quiet room and dehydration making you fancy a night out with Oliver Reeds ghost. Can you concentrate or just sit and there and think death might be ok?

3. Impact protection: Will you laugh about the huge wasp from Mars that turned your visor yellow and gave you a weird pantomine nose, or wear the patch to prove it wasn't funny? Builders rubble? Cigarette butts thrown from cars?

4. Crash protection: Will it stay on, stay closed and absorb the bad energy or break you neck?

5. Colour and Convienience: Does the dayglow paint distract Captain Volvos attention from texting and back to driving, or mark you as a beggers dream? Does making your face visible take so long plod has the ticket written before he sees you as human?

They all balance against each other and only item 4 is tested in a controlled but very basic way.

I find few race solutions work on the road. You don't get tractors turning unexpectedly onto Cadwell park, they stop after an hour, there are no skip waggons spewing out bits of gravel to follow and I've never seen Rossi stop to ask directions from a man with a Kalashnikov.

Andy

I have had lots of crashes too, I had never hit my lid on the ground until...

my biggest 'off' was at 85 ish MPH which resulted in a high side, on landing me putting my right hand down wrecked my right shoulder tendons and so I was unable to stop the rear right side of my Arai Tour X smacking the ground hard, at which point I rolled multiple times, causing a few other injuries, then slid face down for ~30 metres/100 feet on asphalt slightly downhill.

The Arai was not too badly damaged considering, the front of it was wrecked, if id been wearing an open face lid I defintiely would have sustained severe facial injuries too as I was partially conscious as I was sliding and was unable to lift my face off the asphalt.

I was lucky the road was clear and there was not much to hit as I was sliding down the middle of the road, riders at track days do not have kerb stones, street lights posts, telephone poles, walls etc to hit, we do and if you knock yourself out in an initial impact you are unable to protect your head/face.

Its definitely about trying to remove part of the risk, thats why most of us on here are clever enough to wear fairly decent riding gear, I too think a small proportion of accidents result in facial injuries with open face lids. But they do happen.

I dont drive a volvo, but when I get in a car I put a seatbelt on. Likewise when I get on a bike, I ride it fast, but I wear the best protection I can.

All I can say is that I would take a dozen off road crashes over one highish speed asphalt crash anyday and I for one wont be riding with an open face lid. ever.

You choose.....

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Cheers
Grif

'11 KTM 450 EXC
'09 Suzuki DR650
'00 Discovery Series 2 V8
'95 Defender 90 300 Tdi Overlander
http://gipperstravels.blogspot.ca

Theres a difference between Open face and Jet style with a full visor.
The full visor gives a measure of protection that an open face doesn't.

Having done a couple of face plants in my on- and off- road riding career, and having read of Lois Pryce's riding companion's accident on their South American trip, I will continue to always wear a full face helmet.

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Brighty's website: TheBrightStuffDotCom

CURRENT RR WITH REGULAR UPDATES: The Wife Takes on Chlamydia: A South American Retrospective

Currently I own:

• MX type helmet (can't remember the brand)
• Vespa open Face
• Tommy open face
• Two Caberg Flip Front
• Roof Boxer
• Shark Evoline

The best overlanding helmet I've ever owned is the Shark Evoline. Together with the Roof Boxer, I think they are the only two flip fronts on the market which are also legal as open face. But the Roof has so many short comings it is too long to list - that helmet just sucks.


The Shark Evoline is for a flip front very light weight, quiet, easy to operate, roomy by the chin, easy to install a com system (I've tried a few com systems and the Scala rider is by far my favorite). The helmet has a flip down sun visor also. If it fits your head, then I seriously doubt you will find a better helmet. I really like the flip front, sun visor and open face features - a must for me. Of course, it doesn't look as cool as some of the other helmets presented here.

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Blog: www.bamakobyvespa.no
My Youtube Channel

There's an easy solution to all the points made here - good and bad.

Schuberth J1...

Hi, I'm new here and yes, this is my first post......I would like to say that the Arai X3 is an amazing helmet for myself. I think that a lot of what needs to be considered is comfort and the Arai, fits my head perfectly. When looking for a new helmet this time around (no bike for 10 years!!! OMG!!) I was thinking budget and tried on a few accordingly......none felt like I would be happy to wear for a few hours at a time and I remembered how my old Arai would feel so good on my head so, off to the "Locked Glass Case" to look at the Arai's.....I cringed when i saw prices......but, once the X3 was on my head......money was no object......that was it....bought. And, I am so happy I did.....I love to put it on, cause I know in 2 minutes....I will have wind in my face!!
If I had to replace I would look to the Acerbis Active......I like the dual shield idea.......wish the Arai had it.
Anyways.....this is a great site with great members. I am dying to travel on my bike every time I come on this site!!
Peace and safe travels everyone!!

XRL GEE