As somebody once explained to me.........

A $100 helmet in the wrong crash you'll be dead, a $800 helmet, you'll be a vegetable

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My memory is becoming that good, I should be able to organise my own surprise party soon

The SHARP tests proved price said nothing about protection levels. There were £500 branded lids getting 3 stars and £30 unknowns getting 5.

Andy

Hello Andy, it's been a while.....

As the original poster of this thread I thought I would provide an update on my circumstances -

Now riding my 790cc Carbed ENGLISH made Bonnie.

Off to SCOTLAND next week with a few biker mates.

Blasting up the motorway wearing my venerable open face AVG Blade might not be a great idea in terms of wind noise etc...

I considered using my "top shelf" X-Spirit but I really hate full faced helmets in town and when it's hot (hopefully Scotland will not be too wet).

I went down my local bike shop and tried on a few modular "system" helmets including expensive "top shelf" makes costing £400 plus.

I decided on a £90 MT Flux. Don't laugh the build quality and comfort is at least up there with some helmets costing £300 plus! This helmet has not been tested by SHARP yet but MT helmets get between 3 and 5 stars. I read one costing only £79 gets the full 5 stars.

The MT Flux exceeds the level of protection an open face helmet gives although once I get home my faithful AVG Blade will come out of retirement.

I reckon I have got myself a bargain. I don't give a toss what others think of my informed choice.
Bye the way Andy, I have changed my gearbox sprocket on my bike from a 17 tooth to a 19 tooth for this trip. After reading your excellent and helpful website, I decided to take the plunge. Honestly, the whole bike has changed for the better - still plenty of go in first and it's reduced the revs for motorway work. It will be interesting to see what the bike does in terms of fuel useage. If you like, I'll let you know.....

All the very best.
Neil

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Triumph Bonneville 800 (2004), Yamaha XT600E (1999), Honda XBR500 (1986).

I'm a fan of flip and open face helmets and a couple of years ago spent a lot of time evaluating various alternatives including

- Givi X.01
- Roof Boxer V8
- Shark Evoline series 2 or series 3
- Caberg Justissimo GT
- Caberg Hyper X
- HJC IS-multi
- Nolan N43
- Schuberth J1

I wanted a helmet that's suitable for both cold weather and hot weather in the same trip (e.g. Spain in winter, followed by southern Morocco). I wanted to be able to flip the chin bar to improve ventilation, but still have a full pull down visor that's effective against wind in my eyes. Also I'd like a pull down sunshield.

You'll note my criteria are all comfort based.

I ended up going for the Caberg Hyper X

A link to my rather long thread on UKGSer relating the testing and decision.



I normally wear ear plugs or in-ear speakers, so noise isn't an issue. The visor is really deep and covers all the way down to the chin. I now don't bother carrying the chin piece at all, and in bitterly cold weather I just wear a face mask. I recently needed a spare helmet to keep elsewhere and chose to get another Hyper X.

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"For sheer delight there is nothing like altitude; it gives one the thrill of adventure
and enlarges the world in which you live," Irving Mather (1892-1966)

Hello Tim,

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I will take on board what you say here bearing in mind who you are and your vast experience of world M/C travel (I greatly admire your achievements in this realm).

Neil

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Triumph Bonneville 800 (2004), Yamaha XT600E (1999), Honda XBR500 (1986).

My wife and I just bought Shoei J Cruz helmets & we love them.
Very nice fit, quiet & not to heavy. Yes expensive but you have them on your
heads for many hours.

Cheers
Paul

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....rather Die Living.....than Live Dying !
www.globetrekkers.net.au

I have only once owned a full face and that was for racing (30 years ago) and legally required.
Nolan 41, LS2, and now I live inside a Spada RP388 Helmet. And after all these years I still have a face.
I get wound up by the "full face is safest" brigade. Scare tactics are for children.
Parachute jumpers don't use them. Learn to slide and roll.

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The Gypsy
Second star on the right.
Then straight on till morning.

Scare tactics?
Depends on your personal experience. I witnessed (post event) a Gold Wing rider (open face helmet) hit in the face by a big piece of Tire debris on freeway at 75 mph. Knocked him clean off his bike, he was run over by following traffic. Dead. Sad. Eye witness confirmed. Would a full face saved him? Dunno? Maybe.

i've been hit by road crap several times over many decades (300K miles) of riding. Usually in the leg, chest but sometimes in the head. Like the huge (6 ft. wing span) Owl that hit me at night on the Interstate at 75 mph. Full face helmet saved me that time.

I like my Shoei flip up helmet. The Flip Up design is good in town and slow riding and hot weather and riding off road. Good for communication when stopped, nice not having to remove helmet. (like open face)

Once underway, just lower/lock the chin bar and you've got a full face with a quality shield protecting you. I like it! I've had rocks and other serious debris hit my shield at high speeds. Glad I had the shield there! How about you?

Lots of bad things can happen in a crash, this learned during 8 years racing AMA Enduro series. Siding and rolling don't always get it (but that IS good advice!)

I wish I had a picture of the woman I met who hit the road face first wearing Harley style "Beanie" Nazi type helmet. After 6 plastic surgeries over 8 years she still had NO CHIN and one side of her face ... was sort of ... gone. Hard to look at her. A full face helmet would have totally saved her.

All that said, it's always a personal choice. Risk management is up to individual.
Motorcycle riding is dangerous no matter what gear we wear.
Stay safe out there.

PS: If I wanted to scare you I'd tell you details about the dead riders I've come across at accidents and what that was like!

A member of my family was killed when he face planted at moderate speed with an open face....pillion didn't even get a graze.

Carry on with your open face....just natural selection in action.

I could well believe the Wing rider episode. You do have unbelievable amounts of tyre debris strewn all over the interstates in the US - complete treads in one piece, hundreds of smaller bits scattered over a mile or so, wire bird nests in the lanes etc.

I came to the conclusion that the truck speed limit wasn't the posted one but whatever the tyres could take without exploding. We got hit by tyre debris several times - fortunately not large lumps but enough for us to become very wary when we heard a flap flap flap noise on a nearby truck.

I tried to find a large piece in a location where I could stop for a photograph but this is the best I could do on the St Louis ring road:

Spot on!
You won't find "Re-Tread" tires on cars anymore but Semi Trucks still use retreads. I used to commute from L.A. to San Fran and back for about 10 years. 450 miles each way. All on Interstate 5. I've seen Semi truck tires blow out several times and of course a TON of tire debris all over the roads.

The most memorable I-Witness case was when the compact car loaded with farm workers ahead of me was overtaking a Semi truck. Suddenly, a tire exploded and a HUGE piece of tire went flying and smashed into the car's windshield, smashing it. The truck never missed a beat and continued on. The car severed wildly around but made it safely over to shoulder.

I continued on ... got the trucks plate number and called it into CHP. No idea the outcome. The driver can always claim ignorance but they know damn well when a tire blows. (I've talked to them)

On my bike I always pass quickly when going by a Semi truck. In Arizona and some other states truck speed limits are 75 mph. California is 55 mph. This translates to real world speed of 80+ in Arizona and 65 mph in California. 80 mph, IMO, is insane for a 20,000 lb. truck in questionable condition.

Ride safe out there!

It's crazy out there! About 30-40 miles north of Salt Lake City on I15 I was cruising about 75-80mph and was overtaken by a huge flatbed truck with something that looked like an aero engine under a cover on the flatbed. He came past me at around 90mph and then under a bridge that I was convinced by eye was too low. I hit the brakes hard but he got through with about 2" clearance. If he'd been in my lane he wouldn't have made it. Either a very skilled or a very stupid driver.

There's so many trucks on the interstates it's hard to avoid them. I started to wonder what percentage of the total traffic they made up and to pass the time (!) between Kansas City and St Louis spent a while counting vehicles on the other carriageway - trucks in one category, everything else - buses, bikes, cars, vans, pickups, everything, in another. The trucks were nearly half the total. And that's in numbers; in size they dominated everything.

Euro trucks are both smaller and engine speed limited to 56mph by law - I can just about keep with them on my 125 (and no flying strips of rubber)

I use a held hero for commuting

worth a look!

I am very sorry to hear your relative died in a road accident it is sad, although wearing open or full face may not have made any difference in the impact.

I did about 15 years as a cop and had attended several Fatal RTA's (road traffic accidents) some involving motorcycles. I have seen dead casualties wearing full face helmets some with head trauma or broken necks but often with internal injuries or limbs lost. So fatal stuff happens - Fatal's are usually as a result of very rapid deceleration ie you hit something solid and you stop but your inside or some bits of your outside bits don't - so the full face helmet is just a small part of the safety system, it is however far from the cure to severe injury or death in an accident.

I accept an open face offers less face protection than full face when sliding down the road it's risk the wearer has to take on board for themselves, but hey ho !

The lighter any helmet the better for your neck and head. Less mass means less changes in speed for your neck to have to deal with in an accident.

I don't give a monkey if people wear a full face helmet so what's it matter to anyone what other people choose to wear whether it be open face helmet, leather, goretex whatever - it is all a personal choice.

One thing that has been evidenced is that the safer people feel (ie racer leathers, full face lids - abs brakes - traction control and the like) then they tend to ride faster, maybe take bigger risks - so maybe the opposite occurs when your less well protected ie self preservation kicks in a bit more when your less well protected. I don't know the answer but it's worth a thought.

I chose an open face over full face helmet, and have done for the last 43 years. its just a choice thing it really should not matter to anyone else. Currently use a caberg freeride carbon, weight 750 grm, very comfy, very light, very quite.


As for Natural selection - well it's really not worth an answer - Jake.

I'm in the "Full face or nothing" crowd too. Your face is pretty valuable and they won't be able to fix it after its been scraped down the road at 70 mph.

But that's just me. You should always do what makes you feel comfortable and happy on the bike.

If I had anything to say about Open face helmets it would be that you should get the most rugged, expensive and best rated one on the market.

Cheap ones are so rubbish they should be illegal. You can pop the chin pieces just by dropping them on a carpet. I've seen it LOADS of times. Too many horror stories about cheap 'Flip' helmets. A lot of people with no front teeth and plastic noses can tell you those stories.

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Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.