Check out this site someone mentioned on some other thread. This guy's WALKING around the world and this excerpt is about encountering guerillas from all sides and police near and within the Darien Gap. He understands completely how to judge his captors and work the scene without a weapon.
DARIEN GAP

Lorraine

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lorraine.... there is no limit to feel safe... look at world examples, cold war, USA and USSR, there is no limit...but in our day to day case, the most powerfull thing you can have is a gun or machine gun...
I don't call you names but "very lucky", You have to undestand that not everybody have your "highly developed sense of intuition", and I can assure you, there is some situations that you can't predict or talk your way out. If you never been involve in one of this, doesn't mean that doesn't exist.
But how did you learn about those situation if you've never been involved in one, someone tells you how to do it?? in that case I'll like to know if you can post some "street-smart" advice so kidcalavera could feel more safer...
Like I said before with 7 years in the police force, and another 12 in martial arts, I feel pretty safe, but I always carry a knife. I understand most people who never trained, and my advice is spend a couple hundred bucks and get any kind of training, boxing, karate, etc...that will help you to overcome the fears, those that comes of not knowing yourself and your potential, then you will not need a gun, will be enough a utility knife or a hard plastic/metal ballpen.
Loner.

I dont wish to offend anyone but this sounds so rediculous.

We're meant to be travellers, not invaders !

How can any situation be solved by pulling out a firearm ?? Really.. Just one example ??

If you get held at gun point (The chances of that are very very minute in any country but a warzone), are you going to pull out your six shooter and have a shoot out.. ??

You maybe in Colombia and get stopped by gorillas. You gonna pull out your six shooter ?? See how long you last against Automatic weapons !

A knife or machete is a tool as apposed to a gun which has one sole purpose.. TO KILL !


Its very obvious to all that bringing out a firearm in ANY situation is going to get someone killed.. that someone is more than likely going to be the gringo !

Im stopping now before I offend anyone.

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Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

Hi... Tedmagnum, you are not an invader for trying to protect yourself, doesn't matter what you are carrying, could be a pepper spray!!

The only one example you're looking for is when somebody shoot at you, if you read one of my post on this topic (page 6)I explained How, When and Where it happened.
Now, like you said, if you are hold at gun point or knife point, your chances are 20% to walk out in one piece, so my opinion, and only mine, is... what the h... at least I will fight back, even if a don't have a gun or knife I will fight back.
My question for everybody is ...are you prepared to fight back in a bad situation?, if your are not that kind, Why you are carrying a gun or knife? and if you are, Do you know what you are about to do? ,and How to do it? and the consecuences? and when I said "prepared to fight back" I mean, Do you have the knowledge to fight? Do you know how to react to the adrenaline rush?, in short, Do you know yourself?

If someone pulls a gun on me they are going to be doing it for 3 reasons.

To rob me, kidnap me or out of blind lunacy.

Unless your Clint Eastwood with a arevolver on your belt and a piece of straw in your mouth, your not going to be able to use your gun and win. Even if you do pull a weapon, the chances are YOUR DEAD FIRST !! Im not prepared to go up against a firearm unless I KNOW that they are just there to put a cap in me.

I dont think any robber wants to shoot someone. They would probably only do it if you pulled your gun out.

If someone pulls a gun on me, then they can have my dam wallet, bike and laptop etc without a fight. Its just not worth the risk. My life is worth more than a bike.

I trained and taught Kungfu for 5 years. Im fit, young and pretty well built. Hand to hand Im pretty confident but even so, I know that its best to just give an armed robber whatever they want. If it was a small knife then I would just run or only attempt to disarm them if it was the last option.

Its not the movies !

__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

I rode from Mexico to Ushuaia on a Honda 125 (blog at www.simongandolfi.com). Had I met a bandit I would have argued that an old pensioner on a small bike wasn't worth robing - but that a rich gringo on a BIG Harley would be long in half an hour.

Old age and treachery wins every time !

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Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light. - Spike Milligan
"When you come to a fork in the road ,take it ! When you come to a spoon in the road ,take that also ."

Carrying a weapon is a constant, constant pain in the ass. I would also bet that if at any stage in any trip you feel that you need it , it will be locked in the hotel safe, on the bike, in the robbers hands, etc...get my point.
The chance of something happening to you is slim, and the chance of a gun getting you out of that slim situation very very slim.
Orrin

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Damn. There was three days with no posts so I thought I was going to get the last word. ;-)

Loner, you're correct. There is no limit. And when I had a gun held to me in Tanzania, it was a pretty big gun. As I was driving, even if I had a gun with me, it would've had to have been VERY accessible at that very moment. And everything would've needed to work in my favor. All possible as I'm sure your training would say. As it was, since I didn't have a gun, I found a more peaceful way out of the situation.

But you're correct, there must certainly be situations which you can't work your way out of, just as there are plenty that you can. It's just a matter of how you choose to make your play. I also think your idea of making a 'manual' of how to work your way out of situations without a weapon is a good one. But surely, don't they offer that in the police force? I can't believe they don't prepare you for all eventualities. Maybe they do, because you do say you need to do whatever it takes to overcome your fear. And fear is what will draw an attacker to you, as someone posted a zillion pages ago. Dogs sense fear in people and that's who they'll go for. Ditto with people-attackers. (Excluding those who are drug-induced, but maybe that's another reason for you to carry a gun?) So that brings us back to the real 'weapon' - confidence. And so I guess some people need physical weapons, others don't.

And is this thread ever going to end? We certainly like hashing this one out!
Lorraine

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A small target is less vulnerable than a big target. I have always believed that gunmen need to be small and thin. I am reasonably large. Back in my youth and middle-age, I was shot at, bombed and straffed. Luck and speed saved me - the first man behind the biggest rock or into the deepest hole. Now I ride slowly; I ride the type of small bike that local people ride; I ride without a visor so that people can see my face; I smile and I call good-day to all and sundry. People returned my smiles and returned my greetings all the way south from Mexico to Ushuaia last year (blog at www.simongandolfi.com). The smiles came slowest in the heights of Guatemala - but they came. Most people waved. I was no threat to anyone. They saw an overweight old man with a beard riding a small bike. I stopped and they asked how far I'd come and where was I going and what did my family feel about my travels and did I have time for a cup of coffee. I would drink the coffee and answer that my wife was pleased to have me out of the house for a while and what else should an old man do, sit home and watch TV? Better to travel and meet new people and attempt to understand their lives.
I head north this year from Ushuaia to Duchess County, NY. Possibly a maniac will attack me with a machete or riddle me with a M16 or Kalashnikov. Possibly...
Aged 74, there is little I can do to defend myelf and neither my Honda nor I have the speed to escape. So I will continue smiling and continue greeting people with courtesy and will continue to believe that courtesy and a smile are both the best introduction and the best defense.
I believe that people are sensitive to and respond agressively to the smell of agression. I believe that carrying a gun, flexing your muscles and your combat capabilities is more apt to make you a target than to protect you.
I believe is personal.
What works for me - or has worked for me so far - doesn't make me right.
This is merely what I believe and many readers may judge me a silly old man.

No, very wise Simongandolfi
Walk quietly, with a big stick

Trophymick

Hee, You silly old man,

I hope that when I am 74 years old, I will be doing what you are doing.

Even though we have never met, I have the greatest respect for you and for your attitude.

Maarten

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beyond-anywhere.com

Lorraine... Hi again...you are also right, sometimes even if you have a gun there is only a couple of chances to use it succesfully, tedmagnum was saying something like that, that's why if you don't know when or where to use it, well... it's not use at all.
Also, you're right, police trains you for some situations, but logic and talk, as was my experience, doesn't work too well in all cases, when they are blinded for the need of drugs, "out of himself" type for any reason, it worked for me learn what kind of type I'm dealing with, first, and then take the correct action. Police or not is hard to find a "McGiver" kind of guy, and certanly not all the police, military and civilians guys are negotiators.
What I think you're wrong is when you said "fear is what will draw an attacker to you", even if you walk straight, your head up, and confident, an attacker will find you a target, if you are 5'2", and thin as a paper... in this case is usually a one on one situation, and a pepper spray could be nice to have handy. But if you are like me, 6'4", 250 pounds, walk straight, head up, and confident the chances are only two, 1- no one wants to mess with you and 2- Who wants to mess with you is A-not alone, B-high on something, C-crazy or really know what he is doing, this one is really dangerous!!!.
And like you said, this topic is going and going... my final words of advice for who's interested is:
Instead of spend 500 bucks for a Glock, pay the same sum in a self-defense course, because is the only way you'll be confident enough to not use a gun and will last a lifetime!!...
And that's it... please.!!! we're not to change everybody minds with this.

Simongandolfi, I will love to be silly like you when I get old... keep on riding for many years more...

I am unused to message boards (my revolting teenge sons would say that I am of the wrong generation). However, I am struck by how polite and thoughtful most contributers are. I enjoy the feedback, so unusual in my writer's life. I enjoy the sense of developing friendships (lorainne, we will meet on the road somewhere over the next few months) and of being included in a community. Perhaps a gun dicussion is the wrong place to profess my gratitude to Grant Johnson. His hard work and vision and commitment in running this site has enriched my life. Thank you, Grant and my thanks to the moderators who give so much of their time. I will be in Holland in ten days and will drink an "Old Gin" in a brown bar to Maarten.

i traveled for a year from san francisco to ushuaia and back. we went thru colombia and took all the scenic, off road routes thru central and south america. i was even robbed at knife point. i even saw quite a few 'civilians' carrying firearms, not to mention the ubiquitos armed military and poilce.

all that said.....do NOT take a firearm. you absolutely dont need one and above all you're asking for trouble. if someone wants to kill you they'll kill you. if they just want your belongings then it's not worth your life nor living w/ the fact you killed someone over some cash and a passport. i never felt like i needed any kind of protection except a condom.

the best weapon you can carry is a smile.

so....leave the gun at home cowboy.