Not sure what the weight saving refers to. Other locating methods?

As for the horizontal strap feature, for my intended use I don't get it yet, though I've yet to use the bags on a rack.
It passes behind the outer pockets - nifty - and then behind a rack to stop the bags bouncing out, but it won't stop the bags sliding back and - more commonly - forth a little, unless done up really tight and pushing against the plate like you've added to your racks.
For that you want a direct attachment from the bag to the rack or bike, like the more traditional corner D-rings. I'd like to see Mk II AS Mags with this feature; sewn and riveted on solidly like all their other fixtures.

I see the benefits of the horizontal strap in hard and fast off-roading on lighter bikes where - as with Wolfmans or Kriega Ov - you can securely lash the bag against the rack to eliminate all movement, at the cost off easy access when combined with the vertical strap.

Otherwise, I think the real benefit of the H&V strapping is for security when combined with cables and the bags' slash-proof fabric - that is truly original. Plus H&V are good backups and reduce the load on the throwover velcro straps, double-sided though they are (another original idea, AFAIK).

Interestingly, while poking holes to take the rivets, it was notably harder to melt through the bags' fabric than the regular nylon strap holding the sewn-on D-rings. Both look the same.
It took 2 or 3 goes to get through that stuff - and we're talking a sharp, red-hot rivet shaft here! - so there must be something to this otherwise undetectable Twaron aramid fabric after all. Which is reassuring.

Ch

Forgot to add: thanks for Great Basin review Chris. It's an awkward shape but you (or GL) might consider heat-welding a chunky PVC liner with a roll top. Not so hard to DIY apparently - see here. I was about to try it when Mags came along.

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Weight saving as not having a base 'platform' welded onto my existing frames.
I did consider this idea to help support the bags but decided against on safety grounds- if you did take a slide with the bike and were under it, those edges, even if rounded off , could cause a lot of damage.
It would also negate my ability to put my MM ali cases back on at any time if so desired.

Very nice loop! I bet the sewing was fun with that material...! looking at the picture did you actually sew these on as well or just rivet them?

The horizontal strap is pulling against my frames as you say but also go completely around the outer frame- effectively providing a hard 'pull point lock' before joining in the middle to be pulled tight-
Works for me. It helps keep the bag steady and compresses it to have minimum width.

The vertical strap works as an additional weight support to the existing velcro straps.

And I also have another Thule strap joining the handles of both bags providing some tension relief to the velco- as belt and braces- across the seat.

I get it - and see what you say about compressing to a minimum.

For sewing I used my thinnest needle + pliers and just did one line of double thread there and back. That filled a morning and I don't think I'll be getting a job on the Magadan production line. A mate says he has a machine that can get in there which might be better way to do it.

I also did the handle-to-handle strap on the Monsoons when full. Belt-and-braces like you say.

Just did a quick shop run and all measures up fine. Need to finish that rack.

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Thanks for the review of the various soft bags. It's pretty timely for me.

I have a KTM 690 and both the GL Coyote and the Great Basin. The GB was a recent pick up and I spent last week with it on a trip. I had used the Coyote before and I think that's a better fit for this bike. I didn't like the GB in downhill situations where you needed to get your weight back as I didn't feel I could get far enough back and ended up sitting more on top of it.

I also had some issues with getting strapped down correctly, but those were my own fault. I don't have a rear plate to attach the middle strap of the GB to and I think (now) that it's got to be mandatory for using that bag on a 690. Strapping it down with just the grab handles allowed it to slide fwd/back and a little up and down. However, with that all said, I really like the idea of the bag, the concept is good if you can pack within the confines that it has.

The Coyote comes with a strapping system designed to hook on to the rear fender, so that works better for me and probably most of the small-to-midsize dualsport type bikes.

I am however considering the soft luggage racks from Rally Raid and the Magadan bags so will be following this thread to see any real world feedback from users of all the systems.

Thanks again for posting.

Cord


edit: forgot to add my biggest beef with the GB on the 690. If you can get it so that you only need that bag, then it's not a big deal. But if you need a second bag strapped to it, because the fuel is filled from the rear, you have to completely unstrap the dry bag and move the GB to access the fuel cap. It may only take a few more minutes, but when you're the guy that makes the fuel stop 3-5 minutes longer each time, and you're stopping for fuel 3x/per day (longer trips with lots of riding) and the guys you are with are giving you that look, then it's a bit annoying.

A related question (not wanting to start a whole new thread)....

I'm considering doing my long trips with the Kriega 30 (Adventure - NEW : Overlander 30 - Kriega Australia)
with a 45L backpack strapped over the top.

I want the backpack because it is a dual hiking/riding trip so want to be able to take the pack off and hike.

1) Is this rack-less design 'good'? It seems pretty great to me, having heard so many stories of busted frames etc etc....

2) Will I be able to strap the backpack plus a couple of 4L water bags over the top of the panniers? I guess without a pannier frame I might not have much to occy strap it to??

I don't know what bike yet -- it'll be a small enduro or adv Yamaha or Honda, probably.

Nicola- as for the backpack- have a look at the Kriega R30 which I find excellent- tough and waterproof too. Good kit

For the usage described, I probably wouldn't - and that's a serious fan of Kriega kit and someone who's done thousands of miles wearing an R35 and is toying with buying an R20.

They are made to be (and succeed in being) supremely comfortable when riding. Walking around they aren't as good as a proper hiking rucksack. If the rucksack is only ever going to be strapped to the back of the bike, not worn when riding, I'd go with a walking pack.

As for the practicality of doing this on a small bike, I'd have thought it would be quite tricky to strap a rucksack down securely to the (fairly narrow) tail. While the Overlander-30 setup looks pretty good in itself, it probably wouldn't do anything to stabilise a load on top.

Personally I'm convinced that the soft luggage option is the way to go !
tried out several Rucksacks so far over the years in all sorts of combinations, just strapped to the parcel carrier. Ended up with a Karrimor-SF 75 plus two side packs zipped to it each about 14Lt making it about 100Lt of space... well yes space wise perfect to me and all the stuff, carrying two sleeping bags, tent, Hammock, food, water and so on, but to much top heavy on my LC4... used this combination on several trips and served me well.
In the end... during my last trip, nine weeks on the road, covering 12.000km, in on-and-offroad condition I decided to change my packing system in a radical way.....

For years I was looping around the Kriega packs as the option of choice... but never bought any pack of them regarding the missing Enduro bike requirements... until now !!
with the Overlander-30 everything changed and I ordered the full lot without a 2nd thought... just perfect !

Bought the Kriega Overlander-30 as throw over plus a US-30 and a US-20 as Top-pack, making it 80Lt in total if needed, reduced some of the items (toys) I was carrying, mainly because I never used them in the 1st place and not so much for reducing any weight, which is rather a welcome and positive side effect... well my current fully loaded 30-35Kg kit including food is not that bad... is it... so by reducing the amount on items and size of some items like a smaller better compressed sleeping bag for instant, I get everything including tools, tent, Hammock, cooking stuff, food and what not in to my new Kriega pack without cramping the gear tight... there is still plenty space for what ever is needed, or temporally be picked up on the trip.

Now my conclusion about the Kriega packs... well they are very well made, water tight, easy to pack, easy to strap on-and-off the bike (specially with the new loop+hook fastening system that comes with the Overlander-30 which doesn't even requires a parcel carrier at all), gives a low profile is light and do not need any pannier frames to support them, but still the main weight is sitting low and most important.. the weight is positioned forward, in front of the rear wheel axle ! not like behind as is found among so many well known and highly expensive frame options, which are needed for the impressive silhouette of hard luggage...
well... what else can I ask for, just suites my needs.

I belief that the tubed and wildly used metal rack systems are a design of the past... today we can do better with lightweight soft luggage and nylon fabrics... well I'm not going in to the Overlander-60 style, which is in my opinion missing the point of reducing on weight.. but may satisfy riders who are used to move around big metal boxed "crate-container-fright-ships".... but may need or want a change to ease there live a bit..... well yeah there is a market for everything this days... my guess...

Now there is one more product of Kriega I will add next month... a Kriega R25, mainly as daypack for small items or else... still I would not carry the R25 on my back, rather strapping it next to the US-30+US-20.

I did had some Ortlieb throw over bike panniers a few years back to compare (which is very similar to the Monsoon in size and shape), but found out fast that they where not up for the job, nor my cup of tea, so flogged them on, at the $bay...

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The trouble is that he was talking in philosophy, but they were listening in gibberish.

Actual it is not very tricky to use the same loop+hook fittings that are supplied with the Overlander-30 to use them for both, the Overlander-30 and the US-30 as a top-pack as well regarding the new hook-straps that are coming with all current US-10, US-20 and US-30.
Ones the "Kriega rack loops" are mounted permanently to the rear fender, it is well possible to tighten the Overlander-30 and use the same loops as well for the top-packs without problems... actually I do it that way... OK I got a slightly larger parcel carrier than the standard LC4 carrier to give a back-pack or rucksack some more support that's all, just makes live a bit easier... additional with the Overlander-30 fitting kit it's perfect... still gives me the option to use the ROK-straps if needed.

from the Kriega web-page:
Overlander 30 (Fit Kit) - Kriega
Overlander-30 kit consists of all web-straps and alloy hardware (inc. rack loops) to retro-fit 2 x Overlander-15 packs to a dirtbike without frames.
Rack Loops:
Ultra-lightweight alternative to a rear luggage rack. Essential equipment to mount 2 x Overlander-15 packs as panniers. Can also accept any additional Kriega US-tailpacks(5 -30 L) to increase total capacity up to 60-litres.

Sooo... it actually dose exactly that !
this newish Rack-loop kit is part of the Overlander-30 and do not need to be bought separately...
Pull all this together and you can imagine why I did fell for this new Kriega soft luggage system.
As described on the Kriega page... I'm able to increase the total capacity to 80-litres, by hook-strapping a US-20 to the side of the US-30 and the US-30 is hooked to the fitting kit of the Overlander-30. It would be even possible to attach two of the US-20 to one US-30 and than hook it all together to the fitting kit to be able to increase up to 100-litres... well yeah and even more if you want to push it...

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The trouble is that he was talking in philosophy, but they were listening in gibberish.

I read Nicola's post as meaning she wanted to attach a rucksack (not a Kriega US-pack) to the tail of a small trail-enduro bike which didn't have any sort of rack - even a "parcel carrier". I'm concerned about that just because the available 'platform' is probably <6in wide - and the O-30 setup does nothing to provide a better 'platform'. It's not having places to tie it down to.

If my assumptions are wrong and she's planning on fitting a top-rack/parcel carrier, sure . But the O-30 still isn't helping.


As for my own use, after pondering a home-brew Overlander setup further up the thread, I cracked and ordered a set of Magadans at the weekend. Will report back once I get them, build a rack and give them a test. Still planning to incorporate carriers for the Ocean Slim tanks into the right-hand (non-exhaust) side.

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dashmoto.net

Off topic, but FWIW, if you don't want to spend big bucks, then consider a pair of cheap Oxford sports bike panniers like these:





based on a home made rack like the rear/far one of these 2 designs:




Pros: They are cheap (10% of the price of all the competition mentioned above), you can tie a roll bag on top, they match the local flowers (assuming yours are purple: that's also why they were cheap at the BMF Tail End rally )



Cons: They leak (but with waterproof liners, who cares?, so does the Giant Loop... ), they are not slash proof (but then again, if the guy has a knife, he might point it at your neck and politely inquire if you're willing to part with your possessions), and might disintegrate if you go for a big slide down the road (again, if you've pulled a stunt like that you probably have more pressing worries than a hole in your bag).

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Brighty's website: TheBrightStuffDotCom

CURRENT RR WITH REGULAR UPDATES: The Wife Takes on Chlamydia: A South American Retrospective

Chris liking the look of your new steed what is it ? is that a tenere front end ? did you have to alter the rear shock asyou seem to have some useful ground cleaarance even with the underslung exhuast

Thanks mate. It's a GS500 with a DR650 front end, longer SV650 back shock plus 19-inch wheels and cut down flower trays for side panels.
Full story here.
Hoping to get away without a bash plate but I think it needs doing.

Ch

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Morocco Overland 4 pre-order for Xmas • Trans Morocco Trail

Great stuff too many people are spending all their money on the bike and not on the journey.

I just had a close look at a loan set of new Giant Loop throwovers called Siskiyou and have added them to the table comparison in the OP.

Full impression here.

Short version: Robust, well sealed and suit upswept pipes but smaller than they say and expensive.

Ch

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