Me again, I know Chris Scott of Sahara fame was trying to use rubber like you mention and we talked a bit about its use in pannier design it has some problems of weight is difficult if you need to stitch it and glued seams may not be strong enough with a heavy loaded pannier. ( Many years ago i trained to work with these materials in liferaft build and repairs so have some knowledge of the materials) The rubber also has bias in its construction and unless you build it correctly so the bias is in neutral the bags will twist and pull in differing directions (look at the construction of Ribs and Liferafts when inflated the Biases are pulled straight and each section is in opposite bias to the next). Like I say there is more to it than people think. Plus they melt very easy in contact with hot surfaces. the base material I am using which may be of help to you is Canvas/butyl rubber/canvas laminate ie one sheet of material with rubber bonded between to layers of canvas - this I then back with a very very heat proof and abrasion resistant Kevlar rubber used as internal inining and fire shielding in armoured vehicles. The Butyl rubber layer self seals around the thread in the needle holes giving excellent waterproof finish and the canvas on each side superb strength to the stitching and seam - but this material is both expensive and very difficult to work with in tight axis and curves.The two combined give an excellent base for panniers. If you just want to use the Canvas laminate you could try getting a few meters from an aftermarket car roof manufacturer it is the stuff mercedes and Audi make convertable roofs from (Ensure it has canvas both sides not mohair one side). ps never glue seam before stitching it will cause untold problems to the sewing machine. I always seam seal after stitching. Hope this helps your project. As for the glue for Ortlieb fine for a small patch or temporary repair but it will not work in a construction role. Do you want to find your bags have fell apart when the glue has given up 50 miles ago down some backwater road ?. i think like most things in life you pays your money and get what you pay for.

You really did do your homework! Some great advice there - i was planning to glue and then stich and never gave the who bias think a thought. Makes me wonder if it might be worth saving up for your bags. When wil you have a prototype to show all these eager HUBB'ers? Really interested now to see what a 'no compromise' style bag looks like!

Hi Pauldelft, Like I said before I am recovering from a serious injury which has really set me back quite a bit in the project. Once I am happy with my finished prototype it is going to be tested independently by a well known overland rider who is an experienced user of soft and hard luggage systems (prefers soft) and will review the panniers after testing them in various tests and riding conditions. Only when that has been done and subject to any failings coming to light in the test and having been put right I would be in a position to start selling. This I was hoping to be ready for May/June this year but due to a four month set back I think it will be much later in the year. This delay is a huge disappointment for me and an even bigger financial setback - and has put the viability of the project on the line - Once I know where I am going with it and have a product I would be happy to use anywhere in the world - then at that point I should be in a position to advertise the product through Horizons and other Websites. i am afraid development and testing time is a huge part of making the panniers right for this market. I am hoping to simplify the design and get the costs down also.
Best regards Jake.

Always welcome, but in reality cost should not be a real consideration to people planning a serious trip. In the overall scheme of things luggage of this ilk is going to amount to a quite small proprtion of the capital and running costs.

Work it out - (in GBP) say, Bike 5k, tools spares & equipment 1k, clothing 0.5k. Already Jakes panniers are likely to add far less than 10% to this and we havn't even started the bike up yet. Add on fuel, accommodation, insurance, visas, ferries, s etc and this could easily reduce to 5% for a 4 month tour.

The nearest posible soft bags may be a quarter of the cost of these. So for saving less than (say) 3% of your costs do you really want to have less than something that I believe will be miles ahead of anything available.

I learned the hard way (no pun intended, but quite apt) real functionallity and quality is just not worth saving on - and Jake's bags look better thought out than anything else.

I am not promoting him (I have never met or even spoken to the guy - we just know of each other) but he does seem to have applied much knowledge, research and thought to this. I applaud it and want to start using the result.

Good luck.
(I look forward to sending a cheque!!)

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I thought these new bags and racks were good for ready made. They are offering an intro sale now. Buy bags, racks free. Wolfman stuff works pretty well.
Very good reputation in the US.

Wolfman Motorcycle Luggage - Expedition Dry Line

I use ortlieb pannier bags on the back, and am very happy. simple, strong and dry. Maybe a bit small. 100 uk pounds to buy (in the UK at least). I fell off a thousand times, miles of bad roads, and only broke the main strap when I hit a tree (with only th bag making contact with it).

For a cheap option you can try horse bags, or maybe ATV bags. Good for tank pannier bags too.

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