I have a dragonfly and love it (except for the noise, especially in the morning). As for leaded fuel: Lead is a deadly poison. I believe the guy who thought of using lead as a gas aditive eventually came down with lead poisining. Even the Romans learned of how deadly lead can be. Cooking? I'd avoid it at all costs, especially over long periods of time.

What Optimus stove were you referring to above, Tim? I'm looking for a stove to take to Africa, and if you truly had no problems, I'm going to try to return the Dragonfly I just bought and find an Optimus.

__________________
Wright Bagwell
http://www.geocities.com/wwbagwell/

Thought I would add my two bob's worth to the discussion on stoves. I have used both SIGG and MSR multi-fuel stoves with reasonable success using unleaded petrol which is available most places in Australia. (They run even better on a product called Shellite which is sometimes available and is - I think - some sort of high octane "clean" fuel). Even so, the stoves require regular maintenance to keep them running and cleaning soot-covered clogged stoves by torchlight after a long day in the saddle is not my idea of fun. many years back in Africa I used an Optimus stove. I can't remeber the model number but it was the smallest in the range and the fuel was pressurised by the heat from the burner (not the greatest design I've come across). Needless to say, with leaded fuel the mongrel thing was more trouble than it was worth and I eventually ditched it. I never did replace it for many years reorting to a trick I'd seen in an old movie about the Desert Rats. Empty a can of beans or whatever into a cooking container and punch a few holes around the rim of the empty can. Fill it two thirds with sand, add a little petrol from the gas tank, place the can on the ground well away from anything of value, stand back and light the fuel. It burns (smokily) long enough to heat throgh the food and to bring water to boil for coffee. Just bury the junk when you've finished - no extra gear to carry around and no reliability problems - minimalist indeed.

The Optimus stove I referred to is an "8R". It comes in a metalic blue metal box which on unfolding, sets up the stove for use. It's still on sale here in Oz (A$80) so I guess it's still being made. All you do is put the control knob in the side and to avoid loss, this is retained by a chain. The brass resevoir holds about a pint and is pressurised with a pump. The box measures about 8x8x6 inches, so it's not so small. They also make a smaller version but I've never used it. In 10 years of use, I never cleaned it after using any sort of petrol in Africa (unleaded hadn't been invented then). Being in a box, you just fold it up and go (clean hands). Optimus have been making petrol stoves for a very long time. I had a Coleman a few years ago which needed a new preheating tube after 2 years when it became clogged (with lead?). So far, I haven't had to clean the MSR but I tend to stick with white gas if I can, mainly because it burns cleaner and is available. I don't like the pump though as it's plastic. I would prefer brass with a leather washer for reliability.
I have fitted to my R100GSPD fuel lines two in-line quick disconnects from Wudo (A$70). These are great for filling your stove easily or dismounting the tank in seconds.
Tim
'91GSPD

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Tim ('91 R100GSPD)

The only baggage you carry should be in the panniers

Love this thread!

Tim, the stove you're talking about that is "8x8x6 inches" isn't the 8R - the 8R IS identical in appearance - but is a miniature version at 5x5x3 inches. The big one was called the 111, if I remember rightly. There was also a multi-fuel version of it. The 8R is still available. It is functionally identical to the Svea / Optimus 123, (and THIS design goes back over a hundred years!) and another one in an aluminum can, exact same size as the 8R, can't remember it's designation.

I had an 8R for years, and it was a very reliable albeit noisy stove. There is an optional pump for it that works well to increase the heat. Leaded fuel does clog it badly in my experience, but that was 20 years ago. The design MAY have changed infitesimally since... and I'm not making a joke, the design was old 30 years ago and never changed that I know of except for the optional extra pump addon. Tim says it works well with leaded - that would be nice if it does!

Speaking of fuel, to help everyone around the world understand what everyone else is talking about:

Shellite = Coleman Fuel = White Gas = the recommended fuel for:
all "gas/gasoline/petrol 'type'" liquid fuel/non-kerosene or alcohol stoves.

Re the health aspects, I use a lid on the pot as much as possible, and don't worry about the fumes - I'm sure I breathe more in a daily commute to work than I would from the stove. And I stay upwind!

Tim, I like the quick disconnects! I've been using a separate fuel tap on a T junction. Nice, but it's now died and I can't find a suitable replacement. Naturally.

still looking for the perfect stove...

------------------
Grant Johnson

Share the Dream!
at: www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

__________________
Grant Johnson
Seek, and ye shall find.
------------------------
Inspiring, Informing and Connecting travellers since 1997!
www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

About as bad as having a clogged jet is filling the fuel bottle from the tank on your machine after dark. I fought with this on my BMW until I stuck a 12 inche piece of fuel line in with the stove. Now I pull off the fuel line to the carb and attach my 12 inche piece. The petcock is easy to control with this system. Dont over fill,about 3/4 full. The beasty stove will simmer better sort of.Wear your headlamp. Rehook the old fuel line immediately or pay the penality we all have. Stop before dark next time. Bill.

I'm looking for a stove aswell.

I got in touch with Optimus (http://www.optimus.se) regarding the suitability of leaded petorl for their range of stoves. Their website states that you'll probably die : ) if you use petrol leaded or unleaded! This is what they sent in reply to my question...

Any kind of car gasoline is bad for any kind of stove, and EXTREMELY bad for your health. Technically, the Nova is capable of burning car gasoline, but it will clog the stove more frequently than other fuels. It will also expose you to cancerogenic substances, that in a worst case scenario could develop into leukemia. This has nothing to do with what make/kind of stove you use.

Car gasoline (both leaded and unleaded) is dangerous because of all the additives that are put in the fuel.

As a manufacturer of stoves we feel we have an obligation to warn about this.

------------------

Would it be true to say that they are overstating the safety aspect of petrol for stoves?

__________________
Grant March
"Live as if your life depended on it!"

I discovered Trangia stoves while backpacking in the States and Costa Rica. Since then I used it almost every condition you can imaging.

plus:
* unbreakable. you basicly have to run your bike over it to get broken. also for packing this is easy.
* works in all weatherconditions (rain, heavy wind,...)
* with some inspiration it is easy well-placed on any surface. no danger of seeing youre precious hot water running away in the sand...
* there is noting to block up
* I believe they are cheaper than MSR stoves or any other quality camping stove. (in belgium)
* last but not leas: no danger for explosions.


minus
* it is limited in sorts of fuel it can burn.

I wouldn't know wich is more economical, the MSR or Trangia's.

Any other Trangia users outthere?



[This message has been edited by fireboomer (edited 27 October 2001).]

Just to add one more vote for the MSR Whisperlite -- I used one for 4 months in Southern/East Africa using unleaded gas, and it worked just peachy -- never clogged.
Had it in the pannier of my bike, no problems with vibration damaging "declogger".
Have to buy a new one -- mine got heisted along with an almost brand-new ultralight tent (and a manky old down sleeping bag and my favourite pair of designer jeans). Right here in the there-is-no-theft-here UAE.

Dammit, this thread is maddening - now I'm losing faith in my much loved Sigg Fire-Jet! I've only ever used it with unleaded and although it cakes up with soot it doesn't seem to matter whether you clean it or not - the soot only collects underneath.

So Peter, please tell me why your Sigg was so bad in Africa! I want to know if I should ditch it before I head off.

Even more worryingly, Sigg don't mention stoves at all on their web site - have they lost faith in their product too??

__________________
If a thing is worth doing, it\'s worth doing to extremes.

We are having problems with the Dragonfly stove we are carrying (clogging up daily) and I'm running out of methylated spirits for my trangia. Anybody out there managed to buy meths in Pakistan and India ?

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Kirsten http://www.worldtriumph.co.uk

address fixed by Grant

[This message has been edited by Grant Johnson (edited 27 January 2002).]

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Kirsten
http://worldtriumph.co.uk

I've used the Optimus from London to Thailand. It's great.
Yes, it is filthy to use bike fuel. Just stay out of the way of the smoke. But it means saving space; when you are two-up with camping gear every litre counts.
It is simple super-tough and burns petrol. Perfect for overlanders.

__________________
Simon Kennedy
Around the world 2000-2004, on a 1993 Honda Transalp

For more information on stoves and to make it even more complicated, take a look at: http://www.spiritburner.com
and http://stovecollector.tripod.com/

Regards Mads
-traveller & stovecollector



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Mads/Norway
http://www.geocities.com/mads-are

__________________
Mads/Norway
http://www.geocities.com/mads-are

Ok, I,m going to wade in and add (confuse?), some more.I have used an Optimus 8R for years in north america and mexico, with both coleman fuel and gasoline,both leaded and unleaded.It always worked fine, but using the square lid as the pot,(minimalist) and the small fuel resivoir, I found it messy and time consuming, setting it up ,filling with fuel, and dirty scorced lid evry time,but it always worked.
I liked the idea of the MSR shaker jet, but dont like the seperate fuel bottle,it takes up more room and has to be hooked up every time.
I inherited an old beautiful round aluminum Optimus svea 123, but concerns over aluminum pots,(it contains two) and being untested (by me), I decided not to use it on my on my rtw trip.
The stove that I have chosen is the Coleman exponent 550B. It is the modern version of the Coleman peak 1. One piece, decent sized fuel resevoir, pump up and light, no fuss, and I found a plastic bucket with top that it fits into perfectly. However, upon doing research about gasoline compatibility, I learned that they are not warranteed if used with Canadian gasoline. It seems we put some additives in our gasoline( for cold weather use) that eat the generators in coleman stoves, so with spare generator on hand, I will set off rtw for a real world test.
I can always have the Optimus svea sent to me if needed, and if all else fails the old 8R.
I hope this clears things up, ha!

Am also thinking about getting a multi-fuel stove, and this thread is great but I'm getting confused! All stoves seem to be poor at burning petrol - correct? So should the choice of stove come down to how easy it is to clean?

Considering the Optimus Nova over the Dragonfly as (in the UK) it's £15 cheaper, comes with a bottle and has an aluminium plunger.

Dragonfly - £115 in the UK, $99 in the US!