Tired of poor lights?

[Toyark]

I have put up for years with a poor headlight ( F650 Dakar).
I even rewired to have 100 watts on dip on my H4 but the reflector isn't that good and the light was always poor. A small pool of yellow light dribbled onto the road would be a fair description of what it was like.

A little research brought me to Gabe's site ( Zen Overland) where I bought the Cyclops H4 LED and what a difference.

2 Cree's light up on dip and use only 20 watts and all 3 Cree's on high. (30 watts)
Through personal preference, my dip is now on all 3 Crees giving 3600 lumens of clean, instant white light as against a feeble yellow 'spill' from old conventional bulbs.

For me , this works well and I feel a lot safer now that I can actually see where I am going without having to fire up my Xenon spot and causing the night to light up which is good for me but not so good nor courteous to oncoming traffic.

It is (almost) a plug 'n' play- There are a few very very minor and simple mods which anyone can do to make it work on the F650.

No connection to Gabe aside from saying he's a good bloke and I am a happy customer.

p.s I have no idea if this will pass an MOT test but swopping the bulb over before it is simple.

[PanEuropean]

Originally Posted by Bertrand

...I have no idea if this will pass an MOT test...

The manufacturer's website (the link you gave) states that it is not DOT approved and is for off road use only.

Usually, that means that the beam pattern doesn't conform to the industry standards established to prevent blinding oncoming drivers.

[Threewheelbonnie]

A UK MOT tester probably can't spell DOT and in any case won't care what the yanks say. It's a purely "practical" test using a complex set of lines on a wall and some lenses to make it look less of a lottery. If the test monkey got his leg over the night before it'll pass so long as it lights up, if not it'll just be a better excuse for a fail than a strident horn or not having a sidecar brake (or a sidecar to mount it to).


I'd try it as is.


Andy

[chris]

In support of Andy's comment, bikers in the UK tend to find a MOT test station where the tester isn't a muppet and fails a bike for a visible and useful headlight.

All my bikes have louder than "allegedly legal" pipes and I always ride with high beam, day and night. I prefer to see and be seen/heard. My MOT tester is fine with this and feels that brakes, wheel/head bearings and horn should work, rather than failing the bike because the US Dep Of Transport are justifying their wages.

The only DOT thing my tester is interested in, is the stamp on the tyres, and then only if it hasn't a European "E".

[mollydog]

Curious what you spent all up on your lights. Are you saying you bought two
side lights (spots) and one H4 bulb ... or?

That's the beauty of HID ... lower draw and more output.

Lots of companies are offering these kits now ... and WHAT A DIFFERENCE!

I've had HID kits from DDM Tuning for 3 years now. Some companies mark up more than others. Nearly ALL the HID bulbs come from a factory in China. DDM guys are Chinese ... living in Los Angeles. So pretty good deal price wise. Check it out:

DDM Tuning : Motorcycle HID Kits & Lighting

My H4 bulb is 5000 lumens, $22 USD.
I'd like to have side lights but the charging system on the DR650 is just too weak to handle it. Maybe I could do ONE 20 watt light?

My H4 HID bulb draws 35 Watts, compared to 55 watts for stock H4 bulb. No one flashes me, and it's easily 3 times brighter than stock bulb. After 3 years/15,000 miles the ignitor burned out ... DDM sent me a FREE replacement and I now carry a complete back up kit. (packs small)

[1moremile]

Originally Posted by chris

I always ride with high beam, day and night. I prefer to see and be seen/heard. "E".

Chris - do you really ride with high beam on at night? The arrogance of that statement above is incredible. Apart from this being contrary to the highway code, it is utterly selfish. You appear to be saying "I'll do what I want and f*ck anybody else".

26 years ago I was on the receiving end of an idiot like you. On a dark country road I was blinded by on oncoming car driver who did not dip his lights. The end result for me was massive life changing injuries and a lifetime of pain and disability. I've just had my 12th big orthopaedic operation this year and if you saw my x-rays you probably wouldn't believe them.

I hope I never have to meet you on a dark road anywhere.

[Toyark]

Mollydog:
I have just one headlight 'bulb' which is the cyclops one I reported on.
It's beauty is that it requires no ballast. ( unlike the separate Xenon spot).
I'm happy with it.
My max draw on lighting is now 30watts with the cyclops plus 50watts for the xenon.

[chris]

Originally Posted by 1moremile

Chris - do you really ride with high beam on at night? The arrogance of that statement above is incredible. Apart from this being contrary to the highway code, it is utterly selfish. You appear to be saying "I'll do what I want and f*ck anybody else".

26 years ago I was on the receiving end of an idiot like you. On a dark country road I was blinded by on oncoming car driver who did not dip his lights. The end result for me was massive life changing injuries and a lifetime of pain and disability. I've just had my 12th big orthopaedic operation this year and if you saw my x-rays you probably wouldn't believe them.

I hope I never have to meet you on a dark road anywhere.

Thanks for you balanced post that is in no way , nor including any hyperbole.

You're referring to a road traffic incident involving a car that had it's high beams on.

I am referring to a riding motorcycles (even with the influx of 4x4ers and pushbikers, this is still a bike forum) with sh!te headlights/headlight bulbs and hence keeping high beam on to increase my chances of seeing and being seen by killer car drivers during the day and night.

The OP is referring to a bulb fitted to a motorcycle, that, as far as my knowledge of watts/lumens goes, is probably brighter than the highbeam on my bikes.

While still I turn my lights to lowbeam when coming up behind other bikes or if another bike/cyclist/pedestrian is coming the other way.

[mollydog]

Oh sorry, I was confused with your reference to "Cree" lights ... I have NO IDEA what Cree lights might be. "three Cree lights"?
10 Watts draw each is very good! Maybe Cree lights are rows of LED's? Lots of BMW guys run those now ... and Audi cars.

Are you saying each "Cree" light puts out 3600 lumens? Or is it 3600 combined for all three?

Does your Xenon spot get HOT? IIRC, I think I used a Xenon years ago and it ran hot. 50 watts is way more than my DR650 can handle. Running heated gear and grips I'm about maxed out and another reason I went with the 35 watt HID H4 light, saving 20 watts over stock. (55 Watt)

Another good thing about HID ... NO HEAT. I'm using the stock headlight housing and internal reflector/mirror, works fine with HID. Good dispersal pattern, no one flashes me and I can see WAY down the road.

Only thing I lack are side lights to light up sides of roads as we have a HUGE overpopulation of Deer on our California roads ... with very little predation. Riders killed every year from Deer strikes.

There are now some very good low draw LED spots on the market, I'll be shopping around for one to use on lonely dark roads when needed.

[colebatch]

Originally Posted by mollydog

Are you saying each "Cree" light puts out 3600 lumens? Or is it 3600 combined for all three?

CREE is a superconductor manufacturer near the forefront of LED technology. They currently commercially produce industry leading 10w LEDs (http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/Cr...g/XLampXML.pdf) that produce 1000 lumens per 10W LED.

You will never get 3600 lumens of useful visible white light out of 10 watts ... its not even physically possible. The physical limit of efficiency for white light is about 260 lumens per watt. That assumes your light source is 100% efficient (produces ZERO heat and ZERO emissions in the non visible spectrum, and a perfectly even spread of colours in the visible spectrum).

BTW ... LEDs DO produce heat, thats why they have a big heat sink and cooling fins at the back of them. The only thing that even comes close to the physical limit of efficiency for light production is low pressure sodium HIDs (often used in street lighting) that can produce 160-180 lumens per watt.

The top commercially available LEDs currently put out around 100 lumens per watt. HIDs as used in headlights (Metal Halide) put out about 90. Halogen put out about 25-30 lumens per watt. Old Skool tungsten bulbs make about 15 lumens per watt.

3600 lumens from even 3 CREE LEDs is not credible when CREE themselves say each of their 10W LEDs makes 1000 lumens, not 1200 (see link above).

For more on luminous efficiency / efficacy, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminous_efficacy

[Toyark]

Originally Posted by colebatch

You will never get 3600 lumens of useful visible white light out of 10 watts[/url]

Walter, it does as near as can be reasonably expected on 30 watts - aka- full beam.
The Cyplops I have fitted to the bike is a little bit less effective on throw than my handheld Quadray which pushes out a healthy 3800 lumen using 4 Cree XM-L2 LEDs. I am going to guess this is down to the reflectors-I'm not splitting hairs over a few hundred lumens! It is massive improvement on previous. It needs no ballast but it does get hot, yes, hence the fan at the rear of the housing.

I compared it to my handheld Nitecore TM26 Quadray. The TM26's four Cree XM-L LEDs are housed in Nitecore's precision reflectors, giving a range of up to 415 meters.
Nice kit .

[*Touring Ted*]

I'm an MOT tester... But sadly still a muppet.

And with enough practice, I'm sure I'll be able to spell DOP, I mean DOTT.. DAM IT...... DOT !!

The test might have been 'lines on a wall' back in the olden days but now we use a laser sighted lens box. The 'hot spot' of the beam needs to be in the correct place for the height of the headlight. If it's DOT approved or not is NOT PART OF AN MOT...

There are lots of lens designs from Europe, USA etc and the test can be quite ambiguous.

However, If your bike has a Zen Overland or HU sticker on it.. I'm sure the lights will meet requirement (As long as they're safe)


If you're interested, you can read the relevant part of the test here...

http://www.motinfo.gov.uk/htdocs/m1s01000201.htm

AND

http://www.motinfo.gov.uk/htdocs/m1s01000601.htm



You can also just tape up your lights and get a daylight MOT. There isn't anything as a separate daylight MOT. You will get a normal pass certificate with the admission of lights added in the advisory section. You will still be totally road legal. It would have to be a very very very clever copper to pull you or fine you for your none-standard headlights.

Hope this helps.

Ted

[mollydog]

Never heard about that daytime only MOT thing. Interesting.
In USA we are required (in most states) to have an Always On headlight. Been this way over 30 years. No OFF switch on our bikes like you find on Brit made bikes. Just HI/LO dip switch.

In France, they flashed me all the time on my stock Triumph during the day. I just turned the light off in the day. At night, no flashing. Mystery? Bikes in France usually don't ride with lights on in daytime. Maybe they were trying to help?
:confused1:

Even though headlight ON is required here, it's not enforced much... as Cars have no such requirement. The rational is safety for bikes. Headlight on means more visible. (in theory). My low output DR650 is run without headlight in daytime when I'm using heated gear and such. Saves battery. Never a problem. If I'm pulled, I just switch it on. Done, legal.

[John A]

The "safety" benefit of the always lights on for motorbikes is being eroded by the addition of DRL's to cars IMO, especially as they seem to use LED lights which are very noticeable. IIRC since about 2000, motorbikes in Europe have been sold without an on / off lights switch. The earlier build R1150GS have a on / off switch, later ones don't.

[mollydog]

I agree ... probably about 20% to 30% of cars here also have "always on" headlights. So a motorbike just blends in ... not noticed as much. Our AMA fought this ... but lost to monied interests.

My UK Tiger was a '99 ... so still had the switch.
Many ADV bike riders install some sort of ON/OFF switch for headlights in the interest of keeping battery charged up. Gives you that extra few critical Watts when needed, especially on bikes with low Stator output!