Colebatch, You're assuming someone has already sent Bob those tracks- but what if they have not and he has no data?
Bob works hard on his Wanderlust world-wide map compiling project- you must rememeber that it is dependant on individuals sending him their own tracks-
In some places there is a huge amount of information, right down to street level details (such as in B. Ayres etc) and in others, where no one has either been/and/ or sent their tracks in, there will be little or no information. It is a very big planet!

I am guessing that the areas you mention are more off the beaten track Colebatch than others.

I hope you will not mind my making a constructive suggestion? could you get in touch with Bob and send him your tracks-- From what you say, you are obviously very knowledgeable about those areas and many Hubbers and others would benefit from your tracks contribution.

Thanks in advance in the hope that you will be willing to share and do so

The reason why Wanderlust, Garmin, Google and others have identical data is that it's freely available somewhere.

You've got a point there, but so has Bert: just with OSM, Wanderlust needs people to contribute their data, so new maps can be made. This way, over time, these maps can be better and more up-to-date than anything that Garmin et al. can produce commercially (because they have to pay for the data).

Bob is working hard behind the scenes and there will be some very good maps coming out of that project (Wanderlust) very soon. I know, because I spent a year mapping Thailand for it.

Cheers,
Peter.

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Cheers,
Peter.

Europe to NZ 2006-10

guys, your points are well taken and i am happy to contribute to better and more accurate mapping. As mentioned I have contributed several tracks in mongolia to OSM where there didnt have any data, and I will be contributing more Siberian data in the coming months

But it remains an major issue that the OSM project offers a lot more detail at least in the areas that i have good knowledge of, pretty much 100% accuracy (since its all contributed tracks) and is free.

Being constructive, Bob should incorporate the OSM data into his own maps, amending his own routes where necessary (though this raises ethical questions whether he is entitled to take OSMs free data and then resell it.) There needs to be much better discrimination on Smelly Biker maps between major roads, middle roads and minor roads, and same discrimination with towns.

As much as i would like the smelly biker project to work, being by a fellow bike traveller and all, I found it unuseable and inaccurate, and it appears the OSM project is a long way ahead of bobs ... and as i said, is free.

I previously used Garmin World map, then bought Bobs maps, and took V1.60 and 2.03 with me on the last trip, tried one, tried the other, wasn't happy with either of his maps and went back to the Garmin product. So having paid $50, you might be able to understand I feel disappointed.

Bear in mind guys that the people who are disappointed here are not people whinging from the sidelines, they are people who have paid for the product. Its not like a KTM owner slagging off BMWs without ever having ridden one. Its people who believed in the product enough to shell out the money in the first place, who wanted to support a fellow biker, and then having got the product, find its not as good as (a) they felt it should be and (b) the competition ... when you combine that with the fact the competition is free ... its not a pretty overall picture.

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Wanderlust:
+ Purpose: To create maps for overlanders.
+ Editors: One
+ Map data contributors: A dozen?
+ Result: A proprietary product. It costs money, is only provided in one format, is only licensed for a single purpose and a single use.
+ Project viability: Dubious in the long term. It all depends on Bob being able & inclined to work on it. At some point someone will have to be found to continue his work.

(please correct me if I'm wrong on the above, this is just my understanding based on the information published on the Wanderlust website and threads on the HUBB)

OpenStreetMap:
+ Purpose: To map everything on the planet
+ Editors: Hundreds/thousands (everyone can be an editor, tools freely available)
+ Map data contributors: Thousands
+ Result: Free. It costs nothing, is provided in many formats, you can do ANYTHING you want with it.
+ Project viability: Good chances of long-term survival due to distributed nature. Not dependent on a single person.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/stats/data_stats.html for OSM statistics.

To me, OpenStreetMap.org is the wikipedia of mapping. It already offers excellent value to its users and is constantly being improved. I see no reason to spend time and effort working on* anything else.

Alexandros

* "working on": using, contributing to, paying for

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2011-2012: 5 months in Chile
2009-2010: 5 months in Turkey-Iran-Pakistan-India

Good man Colebatch I am sure Bob & many others will appreciate your sharing.

Apapadop - it's Bob's rice bowl and he does work on it daily just as HU is Grant's rice bowl. It's only fair they get paid for their hard work. I don't recall bmw offering free servicing! I understand your point of view; perhaps you should get in touch with Bob to discuss- I believe certain of your assumptions are incorrect - Bob is best placed to clarify. I've p.m'ed him.

You can (e.g. make Garmin maps from it), if

• you download the OSM data,
• buy cgpsmapper Pro to produce auto-routing maps and
• spend 100's of hours learning how to produce usable GPS maps.

I have uploaded a bit of data to OSM and have found that most of my POIs simply don't show up on the GPS. If you read the forums you will find that OSM at present is basically a map database. It needs others to produce usable maps from the data. What you see on the web is just a preview, so to speak. The guy who runs the Garmin conversion process is doing a fine job, but as I said, most POIs just aren't there.

Bob is also trying to map the world, but it's squarely aimed at bike travellers. I've had the privilege of alpha testing a new system where people can edit tracks and waypoints into the map on their own PC, upload the result and shortly after the GPS map in MapSource is updated and can be sent to the GPS.

I think if somebody would step in and provide free webhosting to Bob, then perhaps his maps could be free, too. In any case, he has said that the new Thailand map will be free to all and as far as I can tell it will have more and more accurate roads than any other free Thailand map (although OSM is getting close - if you can read Thai).

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Cheers,
Peter.

Europe to NZ 2006-10

Let us not lose the forest for the tree here.

You can do ANYTHING with OpenStreetMap, including support an earthquake response, which would not possible or legal with Wanderlust.

As for the "I-don't-care-about-the-world-I-just-want-good-biker-maps" person, a practical side-by-side comparison of different GPS maps should suffice.

Alexandros

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2011-2012: 5 months in Chile
2009-2010: 5 months in Turkey-Iran-Pakistan-India

Didn't notice if this was mentioned, but take a look at this for something smaller:

New zūmo 220 Scales Down Size and Price of Motorcycle Navigation

cheaper, and available in the next few weeks I understand.

I suppose I ought to read this long thread now...

d.

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Reality is something you rise above. - Liza Minnelli (1946 - )