HEY , Everyone over at UKgser swears by them ,
There have been quite a few Major Trips undertaken using them
and i have only ever heard Praise for the Pannier set .

What happened yours ?

Re: Metal Mules - friends have them on an F800GS & R1200GS Adventure. I notice that many of the mounts just consist of the frame tubes squashed flat & a hole drilled through. To me, this looks very weak, is this where they fracture? I deliberately avoided this design when I made pannier frames recently despite it being the easiest option by far.

Re: Caja Sahel - I can't comment on their durability but I think that the mounting system is primitive to say the least. I've seen a set on a friends R12GS, where the mounting bolts pass through the back of each pannier, the holes had ovalled. They really need to be bushed to support the weight properly.

What's best, panniers that come off in a tumble, hopefully before too much damage is done or securely bolted on panniers that stay on the bike in a crash & take the full impact?

I nearly bought hard panniers last year for my 950SE but was let down by the supplier. With hindsight, I'm glad & am now a convert to soft luggage. Louis roll bag on the back, Ortlieb panniers & a TT tankbag borrowed from my 1150.I'll soon be replacing the Ortliebs with Wolfman Expedition Panniers, Ortliebs going on to my partners DRZ.

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My photos: www.possu.smugmug.com

Well my 10p worth,
1) it would depend on your riding & where your going i.e. if all road tarmac it don't really matter of soft or hard box's, just bear in mind the speed your riding & & loss of fuel over the wait by the distance & drag factor. (not much i suppose really),
if going on some of the more adventures roads (dirt track etc) I would suggest you look @ the Ali box's full stop. they will help protect your gear & possibly the bike's wheels. I find it strange they can fall apart that easy!!
I know on the GS forum there is a guy who makes his own £300 loads of guys buy them from him as they are really good, (no i have not got any),
as for the panniers frames look @ Motohaus Powersports Limited S W Motech Side Carriers, Alu Racks and Boxes

I honestly think the only reason 90% of ppl riding any bike have used the Ali style box's because a certain 2 ppl used them good free publicity. If KTM had gave them the bikes would every one be bimbling about on ktm's probably.

Overall look at style of riding & where your going/distance, look at the amount of gear you will need/want to take.

btw I have used both & found the soft option ok for going a way for a few days or quick bit of shopping, the ali for more distance

only my 10p worth

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We are the Pilgrims, Master, we shall go Always a little further: it may be beyond that last blue mountain barred with snow, Across that angry or that glimmering sea.

I would like to suggest another option. When we did our UK to Cape Town trip - my wife and I on a 1989 R100GS we needed decent luggage capacity for as my wife puts it 'living on the bike for a year'. I knocked up plywood panniers and some fairly heavy duty frames (20mm square section tube) which used the existing mounting points. In the whole design there is no attempt to save weight which may be the only downside. Everything you see on the bike i.e. panniers + contents and frames, all the other bags including tank bag, water carriers (empty) and the front rack weighed in at 91kg just after this photo was taken on our return to Devon, which I don't think is too bad for 2 people. The bike was a bit of a handful in the desert and the panniers were mounted a little low and tended to dig in on twisty tarmac roads. After a number of hard falls in the Kalahari we did manage to cause some slight damage to one pannier but this was easily fixed after a quick visit to a hardware shop in Ghanzi for a few wood screws.





It appears I unwittingly incorporated some interesting features not seen on other hard luggage:

• Panniers are side opening. Lid is about 2/3 of the pannier height and folds down to make a shelf ideal for making a roadside brew! The bottom part of the pannier was used to store stuff we didn't need everyday. Waterproofing was not a problem although we never completely submerged them.
• The panniers lift off the frames and make ideal camping seats. The black bar around the top is hinged and padlocked at the back to hold the pannier to the bike and the lid closed.
• The frames pick up on the standard fixing points and are braced across the back as well and I believe this added strength to the rear subframe. I know the paralever subframe is better than the monolever but with rider and passenger totalling 150kg and 90kg of luggage it needed all the help it could get

If we have the opportunity to do another overland trip I would try to make up an improved system in aluminium with at least some attempt to keep the weight down. Definately be on the same bike.

Major trips on UKGser usually consists of a cafe on a Welsh hill though don't they ?

Just joking, I've got no experience of them.


My Metal Mule frames showing their strength

That was a 70mph crash on sand/gravel and they still worked once they were straightened up with a metal fence post. Can't really complain there.

Touratech ones are stronger I think, they use the same hoops.

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Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

IMHO I can see the merit of both soft luggage and panniers.

If I was going to ride on soft or muddy surfaces where the risk of tipping over was considerably higher then I would change my hard luggage (H&B Standard Alu) to soft or at the very least consider the risks and financial strain.

I also think that most people that use hard luggage (alu or other) don't consider how much they might fall off, they don't want to consider the worst case scenario and what it would mean to fix the bike if like with Touring Ted's photos, the bike was always rubber side up... oops No harm meant

So I've come up with this formula to help provide some direction to other's in their buying decision.

Choose Soft luggage if:

(Riding time on soft surface > 200 metres)
AND
((Riding skill on soft surfaces < 3 years experience) OR (Motorcycle & luggage combined mass > 180kgs))
OR
(Number of drops >= x)
OR
(Available funds $$ < (co$t of repair OR co$t of replacement of hard luggage))

For all else choose hard luggage.


I've made the following assumptions based on the above.

• Soft surfaces include sand, mud, bulldust, or anything else where your sidestand would dig in and you're bike would topple over if you weren't there holding it upright.
• Riding on 200 metres or more means in one single stretch that can not be avoided.
• X is determined as the variable for the number of falls, tips, offs or other where the rubber is not touching the road and your nerve is about to break if your hard luggage hasn't already. X is also known as the breaking point for conversion to soft luggage.
• Repair and replacement cost(s) assume that certain amount of damage has been inflicted to said hard panniers and that they don't serve intended/desired purpose and hence need to be repaired or replaced.

The above may not apply in your specific set of circumstances so use your own discretion in making any financial decisions as I or any associated party will not be held liable and/or accountable for any injury and/or damage incurred by following the above. The above does not constitute advice but merely the opinion of a reader.

if there are any computer programmers interested in the formula in say C or VB code just flick me a PM. (Oh and yes I have a serious case of mondayitis!!! )

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TurboCharger + Francois (our BMW R1200gs) '07
www.riding2up.net, blog.riding2up.net

Here's my thoughts on Hard panniers............ entitled 'A lovely day in the Congo' BEWARE.... lots of swearing..!

YouTube - RideFar's Channel

I have hard panniers on my Tenere as they came with the bike but for any decent tour I'm going with hard top box and soft panniers. Saves on the 'ammering an mendin' LOL!

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Geoffshing

'Security is a product of one's own imagination, it does not exist in nature as a rule, life is either a daring adventure or nothing.'

See my reference to "< 3 years riding experience" above. I tell you that formula works!


WTF. Does anyone else find it strange that he had a hammer, as if predicting that he would need it to bang the panniers back into shape??!!

Maybe shyte pannier makers (not mentioning any names TT) should also make some kind of quick release when coming off so as to soften the fall, oh whoops sorry my bad they already do that, it's called poor quality frames.

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TurboCharger + Francois (our BMW R1200gs) '07
www.riding2up.net, blog.riding2up.net

That pretty much sums it up. Take pannier, and you take to much. Simple really. Turns a poor off road rider into a worse off road rider.

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Tacos Tyring Travels.com

hehe none taken !

I'm convinced it was those daft, heavy expensive panniers that made my bike "fall over" as much as it did. They totally f**K up the handling and weight distribution. You can never bring them as forward (Centre of gravity) as soft bags and they weight a good 15-20Kg before you've even filled them with crap.

As soon as I swapped them for softbags (on the same trip), I was away like a Paris - Dakar racer..

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Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

I got some ortlieb panniers, they aren't that big, but that means i take less crap. 100% waterproof and only cost me £100 in the sale.

Figured I'd add my thoughts on this topic as well, being that I've gone the route of the softbags in lieu of the WAYYYYYYY over-priced, and overweight metal boxes that, as many have said in this thread, are just not really worth it.

I have a friend that has done London to Beijing, Pan-American Highway, the Trans-American Trail, Prudhoe Bay to Chile, and next year is doing the London to Capetown ride (most all with Globebusters). He swears by Metal Mules. He swears I shouldn't waste my money on Jesse's (too heavy), or TT's (not strong enough), or BMW's (just junk), or any other form of metal pannier as "they all leak." That's his primary reason. He also owns the BMW dealership, so he can eat the cost of shipping on his Metal Mules, and if something does happen, he'll probably warranty them. Who knows.

I did the only thing rational in my mind...I didn't listen to a word he said, and instead, did what I think makes the most sense. I bought the Wolfman Expedition Dry Saddle Bags along with the Wolfman Rack system made for the bags. Then I got a couple of the Wolfman dry duffel bags and some Rox Straps and that's all I've ever needed.

The bags stay dry. They don't weigh much at all. They, unlike metal panniers, can accommodate different shapes and sizes. If they're not full, they don't destroy whatever is in them. They don't get destroyed in a fall. I can add fuel, water, etc to the racks with the Roto Pax system. I don't lose much in the way of bike handling since they're really so light, you don't notice they're even there after a short while riding with them. I can stack and pack much more than any pannier system can take, and I don't have change out my silencer just to accommodate the rack. If one gets damaged, some duct tape will hold until I hit a place where I can apply a more permanent fix (stitching!). The whole kit cost me about the same as 1 metal pannier...without whatever rack is required for whatever pannier it is. I can buy 3 or 4 more COMPLETE sets for the price of 1 set of metal panniers and rack! So, I just don't see why anyone would even bother with metal panniers.

I hear one decent argument from another rider I ride with, in which he said "what about your laptop?" Well, I put that in a small plastic pelican case (not the big 5inch thick one...think laptop sleeve thickness) underneath my duffel if I know I'm going offroad. If i'm not going off road, it goes in my duffel at the bottom, where it's strapped to my rack...that part of the bike will never hit ground, get wet (it's in a waterproof bag), and with proper strapping, it's not going to move around at all. So far, not a single problem with my laptops.

So, I'm not sold on the great marketing and cool pictures or looks of the metal panniers, and I never will be. I can carry as much or more, with a fraction of the cost in both dollars and weight, so why bother?

I haven't added the Wolfman Crashbar Panniers...which are really cool too and provide that much more room. Those are next.

Here's a pic of my last trip I took between Christmas and New Years of 2011. It was a road-only (back roads, little gray lines, no highways) trip, so no real off-roading, hence the clean bike. Oh, and it rained the whole trip, hence the rain suit. But, alas, everything was as dry as when I put it in!

F*ck metal panniers...don't get sold on the marketing!! They're not what they appear to be.

Cheers...and have a great and safe 2012!~