I've never used a bead breaker on the Iveco rims. Once the ring and outer rim are off the tyre comes off easily. The Daily rims are thinner steel than my hefty military WM items (maybe that's why mine don't seem to rust badly like the civilian ones do) but the tyre should come off the same. Unless they are really rusted on.....

I never lubricate or paint the inner mating surfaces, the friction is important I agree. Seems common sense. Just a good wire brushing. No problems seating the tyre with tubes but they are a bit trickier to fit, especially locating the valve stems. This makes them more difficult to swap on the truck but if your rims aren't fitted with the o-ring seals tubed tyres are a must. (BTW - A friend has tubeless rims with XZL's and had regular punctures but since fitting (expensive!) new o-rings it's been OK.)

Now for a nice cup of tea..........

Nigel

Morning. Breaking the bead can be VERY difficult. The Tyre Pliers are good. Or you could use a Hi Lift jack, put the base on your tyre side wall, then place the whole lot under your front bumper and jack. Although I have known tyres to be so stuck on that this method simply lifts the vehicle!! But with a bit of messing about it'll come off.
It is also possible to get a proper chisel for breaking the bead. You simply hammer this between the bead and the rim. Again, hard work, but it does work.
But as I said, the Tyre Pliers are pretty good. It is still very difficult, but they do give you a fighting chance.

Cheers,
Matt Savage, just had a nice cup of tea..

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Wow, Matt, it looks like I'm lucky with these military Iveco rims. Even when I bought the truck, standing for some years on worn Mich XS's, there was no more than light surface rust and they came off easily. I can confirm, I heve never needed a bead breaker. At 70 kilos each (wheel+tyre) they are not light but the steel seems good quality - unusual for an Iveco! I've followed the story of your efforts with Chris' 20in MAN tyres and I can see you struggled. But was that just age/rust and will they be easy next time? And will Graeme's Iveco rims be easy like mine in future once cleaned and painted?

A bowl of Special K and a coffee for breakfast (makes me think of the nice lady in the red cossie diving into the pool in the adverts...)

Nigel

PS just bought two new XZL's, will be fitting them next week. The Iveco was very rusty after January in Maroc - I suspect Spanish winter road salt on the trip there/back. I may have to eat my words!

PPS Just thought: regular tubed-tyre-only rims (rare nowadays) don't usually have a pronounced bead retaining seat as tubeless rims do, are split rims the same? This may explain the Iveco rims being easy. But older military vehicles traditionally use tubed wheels/tyres. I will find out when I fit the new tyres (may bring it forward to this weekend now you've got me thinking!).

Watch this space!

... Water and dirt get into the rim, rust cannot be prevented and the rust flakes cause the punctures....

Must say this sounds a plausible explanation. I was so glad to get rid of my rusty TLC splits on old XSs which punctured often for no visible reason (ie, probably a rubbing rust flake)
But I also think early inexperience made me run those tyres too low in the desert for too long. Went BFG tubeless on new rims and no more punctures which is why I am tempted to go TL on the lorry for hopefully the same results.
Never heard of o-rings for splits but they could be an answer. Although on the last trip with the MAN, 18 year old XLs with cracks but amazingly no punctures (in the desert). I think truck tyres are a whole lot tougher/thicker - yes, really!


... if not how do you break the bead and...
There is no bead - that's the point with splits; they can be taken apart by hand, theoretically. But the first time after original factory fitting can be hard work as we all know, usually due to rust.

nigel_all - how much and where did you get your new XZLs? They are over 500 quid for mine - each!

Ch

Just had a lovely coffee @ the Portuguese cafe on the corner. May have a sandwich later.

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Morocco Overland 4 pre-order for Xmas • Trans Morocco Trail

They're not O-rings as such but (at least on my Merc wheels) rather more flexible beading material that that sits-from memory-between the rim and the ring, though I could be wrong about that. I remember though that you need to shove a load of that hard soap stuff on the bead material and indeed on the tyre bead as well.

Now I'm off for a coffee too

Q

You have to remember that the torque of the engine is going through the wheels and then tyres. So the tyre has to be pretty much 'stuck' on, other wise the wheel would spin IN the tyre when you put your foot down. Although, this can happen at low tyre pressures anyway (beadlockers!)
I have found that tyres that have only been on for a year or less are easier to get off. If they've been on for a long time they tend to be seized on.
And yes, the tubeless rims do have a lip to hold the tyre. Tubed don't, they are a simple profile.

Cheers,
Matt, wishing I had nice coffee in my office
got hot chocolate though

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After running Goodyear (tubed) tyres in lorries here in Ghana (1000 tyres per annum) the Goodyear guys tried to convince us to go tubeless... Disaster! Due to people not checking pressures side walls were popping (well, exploding!) like bubble wrap!!! The tubed (known brand) truck tyres also didn't do so well. We now import Ukrainian tyres (Rossava) by the container load - $150 a tyre and "almost" (relative term for Ghanaian lorry drivers) indestructable.

Goodyear Africa admit they are still trying to work out why a cheap and cheerful Ukranian special should outperform them... Oh yes, and a consumption of 1000 tyres is a LOT of tyre changing and punctures... 12 years I have been here x 1000 tyres per year + God alone knows how many punctures, no inflation cage and we have never had anyone injured by a flying ring!

Not really sure what my point is, but thought it was quite 'interesting' to write this out while sipping West Africa's cheapest Nescafe,

Gil
forgot to mention the only other tyre we found to be comparable to the killer from Kiev was a Michelin XZY

There we have it, the Flying Ring has spoken. I'm going to quote you in my next book so don't get decapitated in the meantime.

Ch

Just made myself a banana milk shake followed by a couple of bananas as they were all on the turn. Now the fridge is bare.

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this thread is turning very amusing and yet instructive that I thought I will also try to contribute with my two cents.
having driven trucks for some years in South America and Africa my experience is that tubeless is the way to go, if you keep the right pressure and look for side damages (every morning with the daily check) you very very rarely will puncture or blow a tyre, and If you drive with at least 2 spares, you don't really need to fight against rims, rings and leavers, you just pay 10$ to a local tyre workshop and let him do the hard work while you drink a cold (keeping an eye that they don't overtight the bolts)
-----
an old truck driver told me once that if you run on low pressure on sand/mud with truck tyres you should make a cross mark on the side with a warm knife, then those tyres should never be used again as a front tyres when you drive on asfalt again (I don't think you need to do that with a Michelin and I'm thinking that that's probably the big difference between a XZY/XZL with 12 ply on the sides and all the others...)

OK, time for my Dioralyte, grey, no sugar please...

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Mario T. - southing

Just finished a bottle of cheap Pino Grigio from Lidl, it was 'ok' I guess.
That's it!

Cheers,
Matt

Next is a nice hot cup of tea in the morning....

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VIAIR - 12 & 24 volt compressors and systems. Tyre levers, Land Rover parts, Sand Tracks, Allisport Intercoolers, Overland Prep, and much more...

To continue the "informative but daft" vein of this discussion I was talking to our vulcanisers today. I was doing further research about flying rings and dangers associated with... We got onto the subject of mounting tubeless tyres, and I pointed to a Nissan pickup tyre and rim combo that was "freshly prepared" (read: bald as a coot with wires hanging out and obviously lubed with GREASE). I asked why such a bad choice of lubricant, and why we never order proper tyre lubricant (french soap I think?). Anyway, believe it or not the answer was as follows:
"We used da grease 'cause we ran out of Kenkey and de manager no go give us money for more kenkey"
Now, at this point I doubled over and almost wet myself laughing!!! Why?

Kenkey (pronounced "kinky") is a semi-fermented paste made from mashed manioc and plantains... Terrible stuff, but is actually a cheap staple food. And we use it to mount tyres - Fantastic!

Chris - please make it clear in the new book that the possible dangers of bodily injury from flying rings can be greatly reduced by covering everything in pounded plantains.

But on a serious note, if you are stuck for tyre lube in Africa - now you know a solution! I have actually decided to share a few pictures of hilarious 'bush' solutions to vehicle problems, will get some up on the net and put a link,

Cheers (off to pour a stiff G&T matched with a small bowl of olives)
Gil

Just thought I'd update this thread as I actually got round to swapping my tyres today - I think I'd been subconsciously putting the job off in case my complacency came a cropper and the things were well stuck on!

But no, as I said before the truck in general has got lots of surface rust after our Maroc trip in January and I last changed the tyres four years ago but the split rims came apart just as easily as before. Well, you do forget (I do anyway!) so it's nice to find I did remember right.

The outer rim just lifted off once the locking ring was prised off, so the outer bead was quite free. I did find the inner bead a little tight but it only needed a few blows with a rawhide hammer to release the tyre, although I will admit my lorry-type slide-hammer bead "knocker" was coveniently placed in easy reach just in case...... There was no sign of rust on either bead surface and only light surface rust on outer rim and locking ring mating surfaces as usual.

There is no bead moulding or ledge on the wheel and as I said in my earlier post the only difficulty is in guiding the tube's rather long 'S'-shaped valve stem out of the hole in the wheel without damaging it. If it wasn't for that the tyre would just slide straight off easily. I appreciate Matt's comment on the chances of the wheel turning inside the tyre but it's never happened to me even on low pressure in sand - that would have had the valve ripped out in a second but all are still square and central in the hole.

Also, to reiterate, I don't need to use any tyre soap or any other lubricant and only paint the visible surfaces of the outer rim and ring. And seeing as I am actually writing this post you can assume that I still have my head firmly on my shoulders. I still use the ratchet strap but only because of the wholly irrational fear that the dreaded flying ring will get me the very first time I dare to try it without just to show me who's boss, but it really shows no sign of danger. The ring design on my wheels is such that I reckon you'd be hard put to get it to fly off during inflation even if you were deliberately tring to make it happen!

Didn't get back 'till almost ten so the Waitrose Cumberland Pie and glass of Stella were really appreciated.

Nigel

PS Should be off to Bad Kissingen in 'Mavis' the Iveco camper next week for the Abenteuer Allrad - www.abenteuer-allrad.de so I hope I don't have to eat my words re punctures............... See you all there?

I've living in Africa for the last 3 years and I travel +/- 10,000kms every year on extended safaris. I have always run tubed XZLs and they've been great - even when they've been bald as a babies bum. Yes I've had flats, some trips I can drive 5000kmwithout one and then on the return I'll get one every thousand k but I put that down to low quality tubes (and yes - the every present rust!).

But, what is so inconvenient though about changing a tyre? With a hi-lift, bead breakers and fairy liquid I get the job done in about 15minutes and it gives my wife the chance to make a brew so it's just another part of the journey for my family. The only real problem I have with tubed tyres is availability, plugging and tubing can always be done in emergencies but I seen two Cooper STs split right across the tread width after they hit just one too many of EA's potholes at just too much speed. Driver error I hear you cry! Poor quality yank tyres I hear others but the upshot of it was that the guy had to wait 2 days whilst they flew replacement tyres in from Nairobi - not a cheap deal - and he was very lucky to be in a place where he could do that.

I personally do not think you cannot beat standard sizes (750/16) and old technologies for getting you out of deep do-do. The 750/16 is ubiquitous across EA and SA and you are never short of labour for beating those rims into shape if you're more seriously pranged.

The Flying ring must be an urban myth dating from the old trans-continental trucker days - I've never experienced, seen one or head about a rim pop off.

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Enzo

It is no urban myth about rings popping off I had a blow out on a articulated trailer years ago (they don't use split rims anymore in the UK) and I was passing another truck at the same time, the ring blew off and damaged the truck I was overtaking, we both ended up on the hard shoulder with flat tyres Also ALL the tyre fitters/dealers had a strong steel cage in which to blow truck tyres up Health and safety has not yet reached Africa, the cage is probably more expensive than the poor person fitting the tyre Please do not become complacent when working with high air pressures

Trophymick

I'd like a beadbreaker (maybe visiting Mr Savages stall again next year at Billing...) but i just use my hi-lift under the bumper of my rover, and the lower foot to push the bead off.