Hi Gren

I've an ex MOD 127 Ambulance, 1984. Was a V8 before I had the 300Tdi put in.

I've no sedimentor - were they not fitted to petrol engines? Maybe I should get one and fit it. I assume it would be an easy job.

Clive

Hi
on my iveco ihave the standard filter, sedimet filter and then inline bosch filter good flow any you can get them every where carry spares for sdervicing no probelms so far

Mark

Have driven over 500.000 mks in Africa and South America with a Landcruiser and 100.000 km with a mitsubishi in South America, both original, no extra filters or so. Engines (and pumps) are untouched and no black smoketrails yet.. Fuelfilter change at every 5000 km though (oil too, oilfilter every 10.000).

I wonder if anyone can offer advice about running modern CRD engines with diesel particulate filters (PF, among other emissions paraphernalia) out in the high sulphur world?

Other than don't risk it.

For example if a PF is defined to last quarter million miles on < 10ppm ULSD, will it last just 500 miles on the >5000 ppm HSD you find in much of tropical Africa? I believe the latest PFs have some periodic VHT burn off feature to purge any built up clag?

And, if VHT burn offs don't enable a PF to last indefinitely, what happens to a PF that gets used up? Does it clog up like a fuel, air or oil filter, or does it merely not do what it's supposed to, emissions wise, but engine carries on as normal - as with a lead-contaminated cat. And it may even recover (clean itself) if you get back on ULSD soonish?

I know you can take a cat off a moto to run leaded, but it does seem leaded has actually been phased out RTW so there's no need any more.
HSD is merely being 'phased down' and only the richest countries have got it down to 10 ppm. Can you just replace a PF with a bit of pipe and hope the ECU gets over it?
Is that the problem in Kolwezi, Congo, or just contamination? According to very recent UN data DRC and Tanzania both have >2000-5000 ppm HSD, though I have my doubts how accurate that is.

thanks for your ideas.

Ch

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Morocco Overland 4 pre-order for Xmas • Trans Morocco Trail

Chris

From what I understand on DPFs is that high sulphur diesel basically screws up the VHT regeneration process (if used) shortening the life of the DPF

DPFs that (by design) do not regenerate will 'clog up' and eventually reach a threshold where the pressure build up can possibly cause engine damage - hence the need for replacement at the specified mileage (based on ULSD use)

It may be possible to remove the DPF, though it wouldnt suprise me if some maufacturers may have introduced a system that requires the use of the DPF in the exhaust system - especially the active VHT regeneration types, but its probably worth a try.

hope that helps, cheers

Grif

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Cheers
Grif

'11 KTM 450 EXC
'09 Suzuki DR650
'00 Discovery Series 2 V8
'95 Defender 90 300 Tdi Overlander
http://gipperstravels.blogspot.ca

Thanks Grif, that all makes sense.

It may well get to a point where third parties offer a chip to get round the ECU flipping out when you chop out the DPF.
You'd think once the gas has passed through you can do what you like with it (ie: no risk to the engine, just the planet and next MoT)

As someone just observed, the cleaner diesel project will take longer than unleaded, partly because truck engines last so long.

Ch

__________________
Morocco Overland 4 pre-order for Xmas • Trans Morocco Trail

I believe a number of manufactures have had issues with the VHT burn off process on vehicles that are regularly used for short journeys.

The result being that they shut down in to limp home mode. Necessitating a trip to the dealer to have it reset and parting with a wedge of your hard earned.

Short journeys shouldn’t be an issue in this context but the fact that the electronics some how figure out that the DPF is not operating correctly isn’t good news.
Lot to be said for stone age technology.


Russ

Can I get this right.

Once in a while a burn kicks off in the DPF (raw fuel squirted in there?) for a minute or two when it's sensed that there's too much crap accumulating. The VHT burns it to an inert crisp and it flakes off blows out the back, via that cat?

This happens every few hundred kms, depending on particulate levels. And if you're running HSD it will happen so frequently that the DPF will get cooked?

An Australian bloke said to me it's seen as bad news for bush driving out there as the glowing DPF can set long grass on fire.

Ch

__________________
Morocco Overland 4 pre-order for Xmas • Trans Morocco Trail

Yep pretty much,

the regen cycle takes up to 40 min depending on engine size, bigger engine = more soot = longer burn time.

The diesel injected regen. systems cant seem to handle HSD.

however there are some electrically regen. systems coming onto the market that can handle any diesel fuel grade and dont use VHT - so less chance of starting a bush fire and they can run on any crap diesel fuel used worldwide.
hopefully the vehicle manufactors will use this technology for there pickups/utes/suv's

Cheers
Grif

__________________
Cheers
Grif

'11 KTM 450 EXC
'09 Suzuki DR650
'00 Discovery Series 2 V8
'95 Defender 90 300 Tdi Overlander
http://gipperstravels.blogspot.ca

however there are some electrically regen. systems coming onto the market that can handle any diesel fuel grade and dont use VHT

Thank Grif,
to quote 2 ideas from the wiki page by 'electrically' do you mean:

Resistive heating coils to increase the exhaust temperature ('a toaster')
or
Microwave energy to increase the particulate temperature?

Both seem neater than squirting in fuel, but perhaps it's hard for the alternator to produce that sort of power if say, stuck in traffic, ticking over.

Ch

__________________
Morocco Overland 4 pre-order for Xmas • Trans Morocco Trail

The electrically regen DPFs use a series of smaller metal mesh inline filters -yep basically like a toaster to heat each filter until it is cleaned.

The control unit only 'toasts' one small filter at a time, so the other filters are still trapping particulates - this keeps the current draw from the alternator down to a minimum.

Sounds better than injecting diesel, but its still more guff to go wrong......

Cheers
Grif

__________________
Cheers
Grif

'11 KTM 450 EXC
'09 Suzuki DR650
'00 Discovery Series 2 V8
'95 Defender 90 300 Tdi Overlander
http://gipperstravels.blogspot.ca

Just to let you know that the 300 TDi Discovery has a "Sedimenter Bowl" which is a pre-filter, underneath the car near the rear axle. Most people in the UK are not aware of this as garage forecourt pumps usually have built-in filters. In fact some UK LR enthusiasts remove the unit and say that it is just a waste of time and space. On the other hand the pre-filter is very handy in places where jerry-cans are the norm. If one examines the pre-filter one will often find what looks like an egg yolk in the bowl so one may wonder how much the egg yolk installers get paid by the factory! In actual fact the "yolk" is usually a glob of bio-degraded diesel caused by condensation or damp in the fuel. It is of course highly desirable to trap the glob before it reaches the paper element filter.

One thing that might be worth carrying on a long trip is a spare lift pump as these sometimes give lots of trouble. I had a bad experience with these which in the end turned out to be fourth pump lucky! The problem was very poor running and the kangaroo effect so a new lift pump was bought (it was an aftermarket cheap brand with a dreadful reputation but at the time I didn't know that) The original Delphi pump would blow but not suck so I assumed that the new pump would fix things. A short road test showed that the car was still limping so what could it be? Next I took the injectors to a diesel fitters but the pop pressures were all about 2400 psi and the spray patterns were excellent so it wasn't that. By now I was thinking cracked head or blown head gasket which was making me feel quite ill. Nothing could now be done until new copper washers for the injectors arrived. Once they came I was able to do a compression test using a dummy glow plug adapter. Although the compression figures were not Rolls-Royce after a few turns of the engine the gauge was showing about 400 psi which to quote an old saying "is good enough for government work!" I was so happy that a new head or head gasket were not required that I ordered yet another lift pump. Unfortunately when it arrived there were no union nuts or olives and once again it was that infamous brand so I didn't even bother with it. Next a new Delphi pump was ordered and when the box was opened the superior quality was quite apparent but you get what you pay for. The new pump was fitted and when the engine was started it was immediately noticed that it now had a smoother and steadier even beat. On the road the vehicle was back on top form with white-van-man performance available! I checked the first replacement pump to try to discover what was wrong with it and came to the conclusion that the olives were the fault. They were very hard brass and they would not crimp down onto the pipes properly so if you are going to take a spare pump, take a Delphi! Good luck!